• Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

OPINION: Should the Noble bosses be nerfed?

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Arcanine's the only one that gave me actual trouble. I lost ot Electrode the first time by dodging the wrong way but Arcanine's lighting the arena on fire was difficult to deal with since it tends to strand you exactly where it's going to charge at. The others I all beat on the first try. Haven't gotten to Arceus itself yet though.

And, uh, sorry if this sounds dumb, but what's a charm?
New items introduced in Legends. The categories are Survival, Tempting, and Warding. Survival Charms help the player endure more hits before dying which is why they are useful in Noble boss fights. You can get them in Jublife Village from an NPC named Charm Lady Lucille
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
New items introduced in Legends. The categories are Survival, Tempting, and Warding. Survival Charms help the player endure more hits before dying which is why they are useful in Noble boss fights. You can get them in Jublife Village from an NPC named Charm Lady Lucille
But they are way too expensive IMO and even become more expensive to get the actual decent protection needed from the them.
 

treatyofversigh

Well-Known Member
I had no idea the charms existed, tbh, oops... Arcanine did give me some trouble and so did Arceus, but the others were fine. I did Arceus's balm-throwing stage maybe ten times before I got it, I think? I had to put down the game once or twice because I got frustrated, but I'd just come off of Elden Ring, so it wasn't... the worst thing ever? I still did find the balm-throwing for Arceus more frustrating than fun, though, so I wouldn't mind a nerf for it.
 

Palamon

Silence is Purple
Hmm, no, I don't think the Noble boss Pokemon should be nerfed. This was one of the things that actually made Pokemon challenging, and nerfing them would just kill it for me. Although, the amount of damage Arceus does to you, that I do think should be nerfed. I am so frustrated by that boss fight that I have given up on it and haven't gone back since. But, that's the only thing I think should be nerfed, a little so it's maybe a little more possible to beat.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
Hmm, no, I don't think the Noble boss Pokemon should be nerfed. This was one of the things that actually made Pokemon challenging, and nerfing them would just kill it for me. Although, the amount of damage Arceus does to you, that I do think should be nerfed. I am so frustrated by that boss fight that I have given up on it and haven't gone back since. But, that's the only thing I think should be nerfed, a little so it's maybe a little more possible to beat.
That’s what I mean. I just want Arceus’ attacks to not be so damaging and repeated in such a way that it is nearly impossible to avoid those shockwaves that then stun you and cause you not to move after being hit for several seconds which leads to to get hit at least three more times from those things. I keep having to run extremely far from Arceus and every time I do, it then pauses to charge that projectile and I am too far away to hit it with the Balms and by the time I do get close enough to throw the Balm, Arceus launches that energy ball and then proceeds to do the shockwave stomps again.
 

amoebo

amoeboVGC
Not at all? Why is this a question?

Part of the reason why PLA was such a breath of fresh air is because for the most part, the game does not give you passes. What would the enjoyment be from the game if the boss fights were stomp-able the first time you met any of them? It defeats the point of the scale of the boss, their place in the story, and the feeling the game is trying to evoke.

You have to try to get better at things. This is an aspect that's not really present in some pokemon games. We should be cherishing how hard these are, we need a balance.
 

Goyangi

Member
Not at all? Why is this a question?

Part of the reason why PLA was such a breath of fresh air is because for the most part, the game does not give you passes. What would the enjoyment be from the game if the boss fights were stomp-able the first time you met any of them? It defeats the point of the scale of the boss, their place in the story, and the feeling the game is trying to evoke.

You have to try to get better at things. This is an aspect that's not really present in some pokemon games. We should be cherishing how hard these are, we need a balance.
Some people are more easily overwhelmed than you. Games should be fun, not hard. Yes, hard games can be fun, but in this case, I just don't see how these boss fights are fun.
 

amoebo

amoeboVGC
Some people are more easily overwhelmed than you. Games should be fun, not hard. Yes, hard games can be fun, but in this case, I just don't see how these boss fights are fun.
They are fun because they actually make you engage and think about the game. None of these are difficult fights: they are entirely pattern based- deterministic. They follow the exact same flow each time, with slight variation, but overall when you have seen it's arsenal it is on you to solve that problem.
 

Goyangi

Member
They are fun because they actually make you engage and think about the game. None of these are difficult fights: they are entirely pattern based- deterministic. They follow the exact same flow each time, with slight variation, but overall when you have seen it's arsenal it is on you to solve that problem.
Yeah, and I don't find that fun. It's nothing but a stress trip to me.
 

Ryker101

Well-Known Member
Nah don’t nerf them, they offered me some much needed challenge and never felt unbeatable to me. Even if they did then you still have the option of continuing where you left off. But I would like difficulty options, it’s something I’m surprised the mainline games haven’t properly implemented by now. It would benefit everyone and wouldn’t be too complicated imo
 

mtqc

MY BEANS!
I definitely would've appreciated an easy mode, but not a nerf. I'd like to have the challenge still be there, but for it to be also accessible for people who wouldn't be able to beat it otherwise. It was a nightmare of a boss for me, since I don't play games like this other than Monster Hunter and I thought the timing was clunky.
 

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
Yeah, and I don't find that fun. It's nothing but a stress trip to me.
Yeah, I hear ya. I panicked my first time doing each boss and was scared to death of doing Arcanine's fight until I learned that you could just continue from where you fainted. They're not the worst things and they can be fun but they certainly needed an easy mode that would nerf them and make the balms hit for more, or at least let you upgrade the balms somehow.
 

Goyangi

Member
They are fun because they actually make you engage and think about the game. None of these are difficult fights: they are entirely pattern based- deterministic. They follow the exact same flow each time, with slight variation, but overall when you have seen it's arsenal it is on you to solve that problem.
Games should be fun, not stressful. Haven't you been listening?
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
Games should be fun, not stressful. Haven't you been listening?
Yes, but one person's stressful is another person's fun. Your feelings toward the difficulty of the game are yours and therefore entirely valid, but that doesn't change the fact that other people enjoy the same things you don't. The best answer to a situation like this is not to reduce the difficulty, but to offer the option of doing so, such that people who want the challenge have it, and those who don't, have an easier way out. The alternative would be to strip down the difficulty entirely, but in doing so you're alienating one side of the fence in the pursuit of appeasing the other. That is the very thing that people have found distasteful about the main series, that it forces us to use training wheels rather than just offering them.

A difficulty setting option would have been the ideal way to handle this, but the way they went about it works well enough. It's a far cry better than say From Software's games (note that this is said by someone who not only loves From Software games, but whose favorite game of all time is one of them), that work on a model of you either become skilled enough to surpass its challenges, or you don't play.
 

Goyangi

Member
Yes, but one person's stressful is another person's fun. Your feelings toward the difficulty of the game are yours and therefore entirely valid, but that doesn't change the fact that other people enjoy the same things you don't. The best answer to a situation like this is not to reduce the difficulty, but to offer the option of doing so, such that people who want the challenge have it, and those who don't, have an easier way out. The alternative would be to strip down the difficulty entirely, but in doing so you're alienating one side of the fence in the pursuit of appeasing the other. That is the very thing that people have found distasteful about the main series, that it forces us to use training wheels rather than just offering them.

A difficulty setting option would have been the ideal way to handle this, but the way they went about it works well enough. It's a far cry better than say From Software's games (note that this is said by someone who not only loves From Software games, but whose favorite game of all time is one of them), that work on a model of you either become skilled enough to surpass its challenges, or you don't play.
There should be no shame in playing easy games. Because like I said, stressful is not fun. Clearly you don't listen.
 
There should be no shame in playing easy games. Because like I said, stressful is not fun. Clearly you don't listen.
He wasn't shaming you though. Most of the people in this thread who like the noble fights as they are has supported the inclusion of an easy mode. However some people do find learning to overcome challenging, and potentially stressful, situations rewarding, and thus by extension fun. Not to mention what a player finds challenging and stressful will also vary based on skill level.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
There should be no shame in playing easy games. Because like I said, stressful is not fun. Clearly you don't listen.
The only one not listening is you, because the very first sentence of the post you're quoting was me saying that it is fine and valid that you find the game stressful, and therefore not fun. There is absolutely no shame in playing easy games--I myself prefer a variety, and there are times I want to be challenged and times when I just want to turn my brain off and have a good time--at all.

The only one making absolute statements is you, with posts like this that deny the possibility that other players enjoy having different experiences than you. I can personally attest to the stress of a difficult challenge being fun, simply because the sense of accomplishment that comes with overcoming it is more than worth it. But that's just the way I feel; I'm not saying you should feel the same, nor that you're wrong for feeling differently.

What I am saying, is that different people like having different experiences. And the way these games handled the matter of offering both a challenge and an easier way out, while not perfect by any means, was at the very least acceptable, and certainly much more of a middle ground than the main series has offered in a long time.
 
Top