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OU Doubles team for upcoming vgc

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Thowra, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Thowra

    Thowra The Silver Brumby

    I'm trying to make a balanced team that can function well with or without trick room. Since it's for the upcoming wifi tournament and you're only allowed to take 4 of the 6 pokemon you have, I've settled on a team with 2 super speedy pokemon, 2 medium speed, and 2 slow speed, to accomodate my opponent.
    [​IMG]
    Apollo, Volcarona w/ Fire Gem
    Ability: Flame body
    EVs: 255sp attack, 255 spe
    Nature: Timid
    -Heat wave
    -Bug Buzz
    -Protect
    -Hurricane

    Fire gem to boost his fire attacks.Hurricane is there in case a rain team decides to mess around with me. Also, my team can also function under rain, so Apollo can also be useful then. Since he is so frail (0 IVs in HP and defense, I checked >.<), I partner him with Togekiss so it can have some free turns. That, or he goes with chandelure, and when he uses heat wave chandelure, who is slower, can gain that spA boost before hitting the oppenent.

    [​IMG]
    Garchomp w/rocky helmet
    Ability: rough skin
    EVs: 255 att, 255 spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -Earthquake
    -Dragon claw
    -Rockslide
    -Protect

    Rocky helmet to stack up with his rough skin and punish anyone daring to fake out my garchomp. Earthquake and Dragon claw are standard attacks, while rockslide is there because I can't think of another good enough coverage move..

    [​IMG]
    Chandelure w/focus sash
    Ability: flash fire
    EV: 200hp, 255spA, 55spe
    Nature: Modest
    -heat wave
    -shadow ball
    -trick room
    -protect

    The trick room guy. I hide him in the back. Since he is immune to fire, normal and fighting, opponents would probably hesitate to use any of those three types.

    [​IMG]
    Togekiss w/sitrus berry
    Ability: serene grace
    EV: 128hp, 128def, 126spA, 100spd, 28spe
    Nature: calm
    -Air slash
    -Follow me
    -roost
    -protect

    Enough bulk to take a bunch of hits when using follow me, roost to heal off. Sitrus to help him stay alive longer.

    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon w/rindo berry
    Ability: storm drain
    EV: 128hp, 128def, 126spA, 126spD
    Nature: bold
    -earth power
    -ice beam
    -scald
    -protect

    Abuser of trick room. I don't pick him unless I see that my opponent has a team full of fast sweepers, or a rain team. Scald to inflict burns.

    [​IMG]
    Tyrannitar w/chople berry
    Ability: unnerve
    EV: 255hp, 255spA
    Nature: Quiet
    -dark pulse
    -thunder
    -rockslide
    -protect

    Another trick room abuser. Special attacker for the surprise factor. She is my favourite purely because no opponent expects to see unnerve spA tyrannitar and rough skin garchomp on the same team, and therefore I can fool them into picking a team designed to combat a sand stream ttar and sand veil gchomp. Then they're in for a nasty surprise! Tyrannitar and garchomp are never put together on the same 4 pokemon team because one's catered to trick room and one is not. But having them in team preview really messes up the opponent.

    I struggled really hard to pick this team, simply because there were so many others I wanted to use. These are my 3 backups that I won't be using, but if people think they're better they might replace my current team members:

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados w/?
    Adamant, intimidate, no EVs yet
    -waterfall
    -taunt
    -protect
    -rain dance

    Supporter to cripple physical attackers. I haven't done anything to him so far, he's still a little magikarp. He might go well with volcarona, having decent speed and setting up a rain dance for hurricane if some fighting type comes onto the scene. And intimidate always helps beef up my moth's frailness

    [​IMG]
    Latias w/?
    Hasty, levitate, 180spD, 75spA, 255spe
    -Helping hand
    -protect
    -heal pulse
    -psychic

    Helping hand goes great with garchomp's earthquake, taking no damage with levitate. Bulky to tank hits and revive allies. Psychic for fighting types. Unfortunately since my synchroniser failed to give her a calm nature when I SR'd for shininess, she's stuck with a hasty nature.

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia w/sitrus berry
    Quirky, levitate, 255def, 255spD
    -Helping hand
    -Protect
    -Icy wind
    -Trick room

    Bad nature because when I first started playing pokemon I didn't know anything about natures. Icy wind to slow down opponents that have on-par speed with the rest of my team, otherwise a trick room. Helping hand for the boost.

    Again, the above 3 pokemon will not be used, but they might still be an option if people think my current 6 are not synergised. I'd love to hear what you guys think!
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  2. Manectrifier

    Manectrifier AKA Treecko

    Just a few small things I want to point out:
    -Heat Wave>fiery dance on Volcarona. Heat wave is almost always better. Volc won't live long enough to enjoy a possible sp. attack boost most of the time.
    -Sitrus berry>kings rock on Togekiss. If I'm not mistaken kings rock boosts the crit chance by 10 per cent so 60% will become 66%. sitrus berry heals, which is important to survive another attack and give your partner another free turn.
    -...............that tyranitar set looks really weird. I have no idea how it will turn out, but if it works for you use it. I can't imagine a rain dance TYRANITAR to work though. No sandstorm on ttar: Ok. Might work out. But rain dance? Plus nothing on your team really benefits from rain. I think standard ttar works better, but if it works, don't change it :)

    Hope this helped!
     
  3. Shreyas

    Shreyas Well-Known Member

    Can you expand on why you are using some of those EV spreads, please. It seems that some Pokemon are wasting a decent about of EVs that could increase another stat for the better. And, it will really help me out when I rate and try to think of better EV spreads.

    And, like treeckotrainer said, I don't really see why you are running rain dance. If anything, your team will better benefit from a sandstorm than rain.

    Also, you should really think hard about bringing in Volcarona against rain. He dies too easily to Surfs/Muddy Waters.

    On Tyranitar, you really don't want rain dance since it pretty much is asking to be killed in rain.

    I'm a little iffy on running Volcarona and Chandelure...
     
  4. Thowra

    Thowra The Silver Brumby

    @treekotrainer - heat wave might actually be a good idea, if I pair vol up with chandelure it will also get a sp attack boost. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll replace the king's rock too, I thought the effects were added and not multiplied.

    @shreyas
    Volc and garchomp's EVs are easy, they maximise offense and speed to dish out the most damage in the shortest time.
    Chadelure needs max spA to deal huge damage, I gave him a bit of speed evs as base 80 speed is still quite decent and he could possibly outrun a bunch of other mid speed attackers. The rest of the EVs I put into HP for bulk.
    Togekiss doesn't need to worry so much about speed because two of his attacks are priority. I split the rest evenly amongst spA, HP, def and spD so he has average bulk and attack. spD gets the least because he has natural bulk in that stat.
    Gastrodon's whole purpose is a tank while also dishing some damage, so I split the EVs evenly into his three defensive stats and one offense spA stat.
    Ttar just needs to dish out damage and have average bulk, so I split them evenly into HP and spA.

    @To both treeko and shreyas:
    The point of my ttar is to trick the opponent into thinking I have a sandstorm ttar and sand veil garchomp, neither of which I'll have. When that happens they'll probably bring in their own weather inducers to stop my team, and if that happens I'll simply enjoy the free sun (vol and chandelure) or free rain (ttar's thunder, gastrodon, volcarona's hurricane). While it's true that rain dance is practically asking to be surfed to deaf, I always intend to put gastrodon out the back and switch in when opponents attack.

    In the winter VGC I used rain dance ttar paired with volc and it worked moderately well. Back then I'd only been playing white for about a few weeks, and ttar and volc were the only two trained pokemon on my team. The rest were just a motley collection of un-EVd pokemon. It was practically ttar and volc vs four of my opponent's pokemon, and I won 3 out of my 10 matches. Not good, but considering the odds I thought it worked alright. HOWEVER that being said I do realise rain dance on ttar is a huge risk. What kind of replacement would you suggest for it? I still like the idea of tricking the opponent into thinking I have pokemon with different abilities, so I'd like to keep some sort of surprise factor on my side.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  5. Manectrifier

    Manectrifier AKA Treecko

    If you are tricking your opponent into thinking it is sandstorm, that's fine. If they bring their own weather inducers, that's also good for you as you can take advantage of it with volc, chandy and gastrodon. I'm a bit iffy on the rain dance though. If your opponent thinks you use ss, and (s)he brings his/her politoed, rain dance is useless. I suggest using rock slide over rain dance. Although uninvested, it hits both opponents and is really helpful against opponent sun teams and flying types in general. Thunder is good when you're facing rain teams, but I don't know if it'll get much use as your ttar isn't invested in speed and in rain it won't live long due to all the surfs thrown around. So maybe invest in speed on your tyranitar.

    Good luck with the tournament!
     
  6. Shreyas

    Shreyas Well-Known Member

    Ok, so you're kind of wasting quite a lot of EVs on this team. Here's what I really think you should use:

    Volcarona: 252 SpA / 252 Spe (4 more EVs to spare)
    Garchomp: 252 Atk / 252 Spe (4 more EVs to spare)
    Chandelure: 196 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe (8 more EVs to spare)
    Togekiss: 124 HP /124 Def / 124 SpA / 100 SpD / 28 Spe (8 more EVs to spare)
    Gastrodon: 124 HP / 124 Def / 124 SpA / 124 SpD (12 more EVs to spare)
    Tyranitar: 252 HP / 252 SpA (4 more EVs to spare)
     
  7. TurboMechaElgyem

    TurboMechaElgyem Well-Known Member

    2 minor tweaks:

    Gastrodon should have Muddy water, not Scald. Field damage makes a big difference in VGCs

    Second, Garchomp should replace Dragon Tail, since you already have two pokemon that counter TR. I suggest Crunch, as it provides extra coverage that Garchomp loves.
     
  8. Shreyas

    Shreyas Well-Known Member

    Scald, just like singles, is really used for more of a defensive approach where as Muddy Water is used for more of an offensive approach. The Burn chance is always really nice to have since it can help Gastrodon survive more attacks, and at the same time scare a physical hitter from staying in, or scaring one into protecting.

    And, I agree about getting rid of Dragon Tail on Garchomp. However, maybe go with Rock Slide of Substitute instead of Crunch. You've pretty much have the dark coverage from Tyranitar, and I'm not quite sure if Crunch can help you net any OHKOs.
     
  9. Thowra

    Thowra The Silver Brumby

    Thanks for all your feedback guys! I've edited the OP to reflect the changes too

    I've now given heat wave to volcarona and replaced rain dance with rockslide. The only problem is that I now have a water weakness on my team - is gastrodon a good enough counter to water types? He can absorb water, except if those water types start using other attacks the slug will go down pretty quickly. Do you think recover on gastrodon would be a better idea instead of protect?

    I think I might replace dragon tail with something like rockslide then - substitute sounds dangerous as garchomp will be losing health to set up a sub. Although I've never actually used substitute before - is it really that helpful?

    Also, with the EVs thing, does an extra 4 EVs in one stat really matter? Because from what I've heard they only raise the stat by 1 point, which doesn't really sound like much unless it's the speed stat...
     
  10. Chingchar

    Chingchar Well-Known Member

    I would swap Chadelure for either one of the lati's and try running Helping hand, Surf, psyshock and the a filler if using a Latias or if using Latios have it with Surf, psyshock, dracometeor and filler and have it with a dragon gem you can use surf freely while gastrodon is out and then you should run muddy water on gastrodon to really hurt the opposing team also heat wave only hits the opponent and not your teammate. Hope this helps and I think it's a good team :)
     
  11. joej m

    joej m Club Double Trouble

    ummm... you named it OU team for VGC. in VGC there are no tiers, plus pokemon like hitmontop (who i think are UU or something) are amazing in doubles. so making a team around a tier basing it on singles metagame is not very smart.
    but the team isn't bad.
    i would work on your EV spreads though. try using this:
    http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html press damage calculator, then go to the left on switch it from singles to VGC.
    maybe put auraspear on your togekiss also.
    also i would put cresselia in there instead of your chandelure. two fire types is not needed. also cresselia with EV's:

    252 hp/ 60 defense/ 24 sp attack/ 170 sp defense
    problem is this set needs a sitrus berry to do what it does best. so i would rethink the item on togekiss.
    it can live tyranitar crunch and hydreigon dark pulse 2 times after the sitrus berry, and can KO virizion and terrakion and hitmontop with psyshock after 2 hits
    moves are:
    -trick room
    -safegaurd
    -ice beam
    -psyshock

    also since you are in the sand give garchomp sand veil, and get it a yache berry to live those ice attacks.

    also, gastrodon uses this set better:

    Gastrodon-Ea @ Earth Gem
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 100 SAtk / 136 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Scald / Muddy Water
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power
    - Protect / Recover

    The most obvious part of this set is that it’s made to be able to OHKO 252 HP / 4 SpD Metagross. That would be the reason behind the Special Attack boosting nature, the 100 Special Attack EVs, and Earth Gem. Of course, not all Metagross use this spread, so it’s important to be aware of the fact that it might survive. The defensives allow Gastrodon to survive both a Fighting Gem Close Combat from Adamant Hitmontop or a Dragon Gem Draco Meteor from Timid Latios (therefore handling any Dragon Gem Draco Meteor besides Modest Latios and Hydreigon in VGC 2012) with barely any HP left.

    While Earth Power is the highlight of this set, the other moves are decided by preference. The choice to use either Muddy Water or Scald depends on the support you feel you need. If you don’t care much about Physical attackers and feel you need to hit two Pokémon, Muddy Water is usually better than Scald and vice versa. Ice Beam is mostly for coverage so you can hit threats like Latios and Garchomp hard. Protect and Recover are both usable on Gastrodon, but Protect is generally preferred. Of course, Recover can work in these situations too. Gastrodon could really use the HP when taking hits from Gems, and it can work really well depending on how you play Gastrodon. For example, if you can make your opponent believe you’re going to Protect, a smart opponent will avoid targeting your Protecting Gastrodon so you can use this turn to Recover instead. Modest can always become a Quiet nature for Trick Room conditions, where Recover may work better. this set is beastly.

    hmmm... sp attacking tyranitar is really risky. do you know how much that thunder does to pokemon like togekiss? almost nothing compared to a pokemon like jolteon. but your team needs the sand to work at it's best.
    if you like you can use this EV spread for a physical set:
    4 hp/ 252 hp/ 252 attack
    brave nature
    FOCUS SASH
    -rock slide
    -protect
    -crunch
    -low kick/fire punch

    not much to say, it just sweeps everything XD
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  12. Silvershark

    Silvershark HAWLUCHA!!!

    Look a little closer at that Tyranitar, he won't be in the sand.

    It's about optimizing your EV usage. Sure, one point may not be a lot, but it could be what makes or breaks a game at a pivot moment, whether it's an extra health point that keeps you alive with a sliver of health, or adds that little bit of extra oomf to your attack to finish off a foe. Especially in Doubles, where many players forsake speed for additional bulk and make up for the trade off with some form of speed control.

    Not sure what to suggest for your team. At a glance, it seems to be all over the place, but I do like how it plays mind games with your opponent. Tyranitar won't be too risky with Gastrodon on the field deterring water attacks, though you will want to do something about Ludicolo, as it will give you a hard time.
     
  13. Thowra

    Thowra The Silver Brumby

    Thanks! I actually had no idea heat wave didn't hit your teamate too. In that case I'll replace chadelure with latias or cresselia. I still haven't entered the comp yet lol can't decide which pokemon to take.
    If I take Latias, she'll give my team more support with heal pulse and helping hand, but if I take cresselia, slow pokes like ttar and garchomp will get their place to shine.
    Oh. My. Gosh. That damage calculator is epic. I can now find out precisely how well my team can fare against beasts like terrakion. Thanks so much for providing the link!
    Sadly since the tourny's already started I won't have the time to IV breed another shellos to have decent IVs, so I'll just have to sit tight with the bold set. But I might try shuffling the EVs around a bit, I'm never good at figuring out where all the EVs should go...
    And yeah with chadelure gone ttar can get the focus sash. It's an unnerve one though, so sand won't be in effect.

    Thanks for all your help! Really looking forward to entering the comp once I finish training the rest of my team. For all of them but ttar and volc, it will be their debut battle. Hopefully they can work well together and have a better win-loss ratio than the winter vgc I participated in :3 Thanks again!
     

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