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OU hail?

Gren Draco

RIOTRIOTRIOTRIOTRIOT
Yes, I'm using a weather that isn't Rain, Sun or Sandstorm.

So, the idea was that Choice Banded Abomasnow and Choice Scarfed Kyurem pretty much put a dent in a massive amount of the OU tier, and are able to check or counter a great deal of it. Using this I had originally made a mainly hail team to benefit from hail, but this idea quickly died due to the obvious fact that hail is actually pretty useless outside of stopping other weather teams. So, instead of making my own weather team to counter other weather teams (basically making my team an inferior version of others), I decided to instead use hail as a way to stop weather teams, whilst still giving the diversity within my team to tackle other threats. The end result being this team- a kind of combination between Hail and Double Dragon teams, qhich has actually worked out pretty well.

Team Building Process

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I began with the obvious Abomasnow and Kyurem, which within themselves was able to tackle a great deal of threats used in this current unstable metagame.

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I then needed something to tackle fighting types, whilst also being able to take on fire types- if I needed to. The conclusion being Poison Heal Gliscor, which can counter a large majority of physical threats in this metagame, including those mentioned.

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Spr_5b_646.png
Spr_5b_472.png
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Next I needed something that would sponge special hits, especially by those high special attack fire types (Hi there, Volcarona) which I still had trouble dealing with. The result being Heatran, who could also be my steel type and way to set up rocks.

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Fourthly, I needed something who was able to tackle mix attackers such as Infernape, who otherwise merrily tore holes in my team. I also wanted to be able to tackle Lati@S who was otherwise coming in whenever s/he liked. The result was Jellicent, who's able to take Draco Meteors and attacks from most mixed attackers, as well as providing additional coverage from Darmanitan, who was providing a bit of a problem.

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How badass does shiny Haxorus look? Anyways...
Finally, I wanted a pokemon that was a strong sweeper and still wouldn't be detrimental to the synergy of my team and would benefit from the other pokemon. The result was Haxorus, who's able to take advantage of my Kyurem firing off Draco Meteors in order to come in and sweep through the opponents weakened team.

Now onto a more in depth look:


Ani472MS.png
Gliscor@Toxic Orb
-Impish
-Poison Heal
252HP/108Def/148Spe
-Earthquake
-Acrobatics
-Fling
-Protect

My Gliscor is usually used as a lead, since it can beat a lot of pokemon used in the lead spot, and is able to scout their lead through use of protect (has saved me from Kojondo with HP Ice), I'm also able to get off an early game toxic through Fling. the reason I chose the moveset was due to Gliscor being my main way to tackle Fighting Types (Jellicent is unreliable due to payback weakness), so I needed a strong flying move to reliabley take these pokemon down. I also had no way to toxic very bulky walls, so Fling provided me with a way to do this, as well as powering up acrobatics. The Ev's allow me to outrun Metagross and Breloom- though their use is somewhat questionable.

Ani485MS.png
Heatran@leftovers
-Calm
-Flash Fire
252HP/252SpD/6SpA
-Lava Plume
-Stealth Rock
-Earth Power
-Torment

Heatran is my way to sponge the attacks of a lot of special attackers, and force them to switch allowing me to set up rocks or potentially burn their incoming physical attacker (usually carrying EQ). Heatran's moveset was chosen to do maximum damage to the things he needed to cover, as Earth Power and Lava Plume covered most of these pokemon, it allowed me to use SR and Torment. Torment may seem out of place, but it's useful for the special attackers carrying Focus Blast. As, with a bit of luck, Focus Blast will miss on the turn they're able to use it, allowing me to SR and get out or force them out. Torment isn't as useful as I originally thought it would be, but I have no idea what move to change it for- help would be appreciated.

Ani460MS.png
Abomasnow@Choice Band
-Naughty
-Snow Warning
212HP/252Atk/44Spe
-Wood Hammer
-Ice Shard
-Blizzard/Earthquake
-Focus Punch/Leech Seed

Abomasnow is my way to set up Hail, allowing me to put a halt on other weather teams, and giving me the momentum. In addition, Choice Banded Abomasnow is able to do a significant amount of damage to a large amount of the metagame, and is able to OHKO incoming Weather changers with the correct attack. Banded Ice Shard is also invaluable when it comes to taking down dragons, as it OHKO's most of them without Yache Berry. The last two moves I'm indecisive on; Blizzard allows me to hit the likes of Hippowdon and Gliscor much harder than most of my other moves, as well as giving me a higher base power Ice attack. Earthquake allows me to OHKO Fire types that switch in (Ninetales, mainly). Focus Punch provides a high power attack from the switch in, netting me KO's on a lot of common switch ins to Abomasnow. Finally, Leech seed allows me to scout opposing pokemon, while still giving me an advantage on the switch in- it's also helpful to regain Abomasnow's health.

Ani646MS.png
Kyurem@Choice Scarf
-Rash
-Pressure
40Atk/208SpA/252Spe
-Blizzard
-Draco Meteor
-Outrage
-Focus Blast

Kyurem is the second troll on my team, as Kyurem is rarely ever seen people never suspect scarf and always think it's slow. This allows me to go through a couple of pokemon before they get the jist and switch into a steel type to wall me. Focus Blast's there to hit those steel types. Outrage is for Special Walls that switch into me- expecting to sponge my attacks, as well as allowing Kyurem to act as a pseudo wall breaker.


Ani593MS.png
Jellicent@Leftovers
-Calm
-Water Absorb
252HP/152Def/104SpD
-Recover
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power (Electric)
-Scald

Jellicent is my protection against mix attackers, as well as a back up for fighting types. The Ev's give me decent bulk in both defences- though I'd really like help with the spread, as I don't feel it acheives it's fullest. Hidden Power (Electric) is there for Gyarados, who otherwise has a lot of fun with my team. Jellicent also allows me to beat Lucario and special Kojondo, who used to be problems.

Ani612MS.png
Haxorus@Dragon Gem
-Jolly
-Mold Breaker
252Atk/252Spe/6HP
-Dragon Dance
-Taunt
-Earthquake
-Outrage

Haxorus makes the second part of my "Double Dragon" sweepers, Haxorus is a somewhat questionable dragon, as there are arguably better dragons out there that I could use. However, I felt that through my lack of a spinner and constant hail, Pokemon such as Salamence and Dragonite would be useless, Latios and Hydreigon where also out of the question due to them being unable to use set up moves effectively (Latios can, but CM and DD varients don't tend to sweep as good as I'd like). Taunt is a bit of a let down, as I rarely ever use it. However, I cannot think of what to replace it with because everytime I have replaced it, the move that's taken it's position has been just as useless. Any thoughts?

Problem Pokemon:

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Hydreigon - Hydreigon can do virtually whatever it likes once it's come in, Heatran can deal with it somewhat but can't actually hurt it back. Considering giving Heatran Dragon Pulse to deal with this more effectively.
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Blissey - Nothing can OHKO Blissey outside of Haxorus, who can't come in through fear of Ice Beam and Thunder Wave.
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Gengar - Gengar pretty much does what it likes, Kyurem can revenge it but nothing else really likes switching into it.​
 
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Mr.Karp

@ Thick Club
Kinda unexpected, but you have 3 Ice weaknesses, with only 1 poke that resists it. I'd look into that. As for Abomasnow, I believe he's too frail to take a hit, so I'd go with Choice Scarf.

-EDIT- Make that 2 Ice weaknesses and 2 resists.
 
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Haxorusfan

Dragon Trainer
good part this might solve your Blissey and Hydreigon problems. Teach Haxorus Brick Break over taunt. Abomasnow should look like this. Choice Band and leech seed don't go together.
Abomasnow@Leftovers
-Naughty
-Snow Warning
212HP/252Atk/44Spe
-Wood Hammer
-Ice Shard
-Earthquake
-Leech Seed
 

Gren Draco

RIOTRIOTRIOTRIOTRIOT
Kinda unexpected, but you have 3 Ice weaknesses, with only 1 poke that resists it. I'd look into that. As for Abomasnow, I believe he's too frail to take a hit, so I'd go with Choice Scarf.

I have 2 Ice weaknesses and 2 pokemon that resist Ice. I don't know why you thought that? :S

He's not, surprising Abomasnow can take a hit. Not to mention he needs to HP Ev's in order to take hits from the Pokemon I use him to counter- but he is definately not frail. Choice Scarf is also quite useless, and is detrimental considering I have another Choice Scarfer on the team.
 

Haxorusfan

Dragon Trainer
If you want leech seed, you can't use a choice item
 

Gren Draco

RIOTRIOTRIOTRIOTRIOT
good part this might solve your Blissey and Hydreigon problems. Teach Haxorus Brick Break over taunt.

Haxorus is still outsped by Hydreigon- who's hit harder by Outrage. Blissey is also hit harder by Outrage than Brick Break. Brick Break is useless for hitting virtually everything outside of Ferrothorn- who's not that much of a problem to the team. Not to mention I've already said that Haxorus can't reliabley switch into Blissey, due to Thunder Wave running around. Though once it's in Taunt is more useful than Brick Break, as it allows me to stop opposing Blissey Thunder Waving me.

Abomasnow should look like this. Choice Band and leech seed don't go together.
Abomasnow@Leftovers
-Naughty
-Snow Warning
212HP/252Atk/44Spe
-Wood Hammer
-Ice Shard
-Earthquake
-Leech Seed

Without the Choice Band, Abomasnow is too weak to make essential OHKO's, and, though it is not frail, it doesn't have the defenses to make use of leftovers or leech seed effectively. Leech Seed is kinda used like dry passing on a Choiced pokemon- you use it to get an advantage on whatever switches in- scoutng your opponents team.

If you want leech seed, you can't use a choice item

Read my previous post.
 

Haxorusfan

Dragon Trainer
Then I'd have choicesnow look like this
Abomasnow@Choice Band
-Naughty
-Snow Warning
212HP/252Atk/44Spe
-Wood Hammer
-Ice Shard
-Earthquake
-Focus Punch
 

Gren Draco

RIOTRIOTRIOTRIOTRIOT
Then I'd have choicesnow look like this
Abomasnow@Choice Band
-Naughty
-Snow Warning
212HP/252Atk/44Spe
-Wood Hammer
-Ice Shard
-Earthquake
-Focus Punch

Adamant*

And that was the set I was leaning more to running.
 

Mr.Karp

@ Thick Club
I have 2 Ice weaknesses and 2 pokemon that resist Ice. I don't know why you thought that? :S

He's not, surprising Abomasnow can take a hit. Not to mention he needs to HP Ev's in order to take hits from the Pokemon I use him to counter- but he is definately not frail. Choice Scarf is also quite useless, and is detrimental considering I have another Choice Scarfer on the team.

Oops, my bad. I forgot Kyurem was Dragon + Ice.

What important KOs do a Choice Band snag? 0-0. Choice Scarf Mixed 2HKO's all weather leads with the obvious attack. The only important KO is 252/252 Bold Politoad with SR (104.69% - 123.44%). These calcs are with 252 att CB STAB (when needed) and Stealth Rock included. Bold is CBed damage:

252/252 Bold Ninetales w/ EQ (no STAB, 2x SR, 1.5x ATT) - (64.00% - 75.43%)

252/252 Bold Ninetales w/ EQ (no STAB, 2x SR, 1x ATT) - (42.86% - 50.86%)

252/252 Bold TTar w/ Wood Hammer (STAB, 1x SR, 1.5x ATT) - (77.72% - 92.08%)

252/252 Bold TTar w/ Wood Hammer (STAB, 1x SR, 1x ATT) - (51.98% - 61.39%)

252/252 Bold Hippo w/ Wood Hammer (STAB, 1x SR, 1.5x ATT) - (71.43% - 84.29%)


252/252 Bold Hippo w/ Wood Hammer (STAB, 1x SR, 1x ATT) - (47.62% - 56.19%)

So far, the only difference is a 2HKO on Ninetales, which would kill you in 1 hit, and Hippo, who Scarf still usually 2HKOs. Although, I do realize max defense isn't common, CB still wouldn't snag many KOs. Scarf also has the advantage of running special attacks too.
 
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Gren Draco

RIOTRIOTRIOTRIOTRIOT
Oops, my bad. I forgot Kyurem was Dragon + Ice.

What important KOs do a Choice Band snag? 0-0. Choice Scarf Mixed 2HKO's all weather leads with the obvious attack. The only important KO is 252/252 Bold Politoad with SR (104.69% - 123.44%). These calcs are with 252 att CB STAB (when needed) and Stealth Rock included. Bold is CBed damage:

252/252 Bold Ninetales w/ EQ (no STAB, 2x SR, 1.5x ATT) - (64.00% - 75.43%)

252/252 Bold Ninetales w/ EQ (no STAB, 2x SR, 1x ATT) - (42.86% - 50.86%)

252/252 Bold TTar w/ Wood Hammer (STAB, 1x SR, 1.5x ATT) - (77.72% - 92.08%)

252/252 Bold TTar w/ Wood Hammer (STAB, 1x SR, 1x ATT) - (51.98% - 61.39%)

252/252 Bold Hippo w/ Wood Hammer (STAB, 1x SR, 1.5x ATT) - (71.43% - 84.29%)


252/252 Bold Hippo w/ Wood Hammer (STAB, 1x SR, 1x ATT) - (47.62% - 56.19%)

So far, the only difference is a 2HKO on Ninetales, which would kill you in 1 hit, and Hippo, who Scarf still usually 2HKOs. Although, I do realize max defense isn't common, CB still wouldn't snag many KOs. Scarf also has the advantage of running special attacks too.

There was a thread on Smogon showing calcs, and there was a lot of important KO's made by banded Abomasnow, that other varients of Abomasnow couldn't reach. Check somewhere around Smogon's 5th gen Pokemon sets to find Abomasnow, pretty sure it's on there.

Regardless, you seem to be under the impression that Abomasnow regularly switches into other weather changers, or that weather changers switch into it. This is untrue, I can't switch into any weather changer bar Hippowdon without running the risk of being OHKO'd, I mean that CB secures KO's other pokemon that it could not otherwise. I may eventually run calcs on the common pokemon Abomasnow switches into, but until then you'll have to take my word on it.
 

cheeselord

Largely Inactive
Scarf obamasnow is much better:

Obamasnow @ choice scarf
Modest, 252 spatk, 252 spd, 4 hp
snow warning
~giga drain
~blizzard
~focus blast
~HP fire

This guy is surprising, he brings weather and kills other stuff! Blizzard is the main stab with giga drain for healing and bulky waters. Focus blast OHKOs tyranitar and HP fire is for thorny and forry.
 

Mr.Karp

@ Thick Club
There was a thread on Smogon showing calcs, and there was a lot of important KO's made by banded Abomasnow, that other varients of Abomasnow couldn't reach. Check somewhere around Smogon's 5th gen Pokemon sets to find Abomasnow, pretty sure it's on there.

Regardless, you seem to be under the impression that Abomasnow regularly switches into other weather changers, or that weather changers switch into it. This is untrue, I can't switch into any weather changer bar Hippowdon without running the risk of being OHKO'd, I mean that CB secures KO's other pokemon that it could not otherwise. I may eventually run calcs on the common pokemon Abomasnow switches into, but until then you'll have to take my word on it.

Well, since you seem to be set on CBed Abomesnow, I'll run some calcs on it to see if it gets any important KO's on it's common switch-ins.

-edit- Fun Fact : 52 HP EVs is enough so live through STAB Technician boosted Bullet Punch from Scizor. (81.44% - 97.01%). But with CB ... (122.75% - 145.51%)
-edit 2- Now that I think about it, Abomasnow can switch in on almost every weather starter actually. You just have to set it up :

Heatran on Politoad > Switch to Aboma > Absorb water hit > Wood Hammer

Jellicent on TTar > Switch to Aboma > Absorb Crunch > Wood Hammer > Switch to Jelli (TTar has Superpower)

Ninetales : Don't even bother XD
 
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Gren Draco

RIOTRIOTRIOTRIOTRIOT
Scarf obamasnow is much better:

Obamasnow @ choice scarf
Modest, 252 spatk, 252 spd, 4 hp
snow warning
~giga drain
~blizzard
~focus blast
~HP fire

This guy is surprising, he brings weather and kills other stuff! Blizzard is the main stab with giga drain for healing and bulky waters. Focus blast OHKOs tyranitar and HP fire is for thorny and forry.

Scarfed Abomasnow is bad on a team where I already have something scarfed, using Blizzard etc. Not to mention Banded Abomasnow hits everything harder, not to mention Scarf is generally for revenge killers, which is not what Abomasnow is meant to be. Band let's it survive longer, especially since priority +2 Ice Shard has saved me so many times- priority is needed on most teams and Banded Abomasnow brings me that, amongst other things. Special Abomasnow is also useless on this team, considering almost everything except from my late game sweeper hits on the special side, and I have enough problems with Blissey and Co. as it is, so I won't changed Abomasnow to a special varient unless someone gives me a very good reason to.

Well, since you seem to be set on CBed Abomesnow, I'll run some calcs on it to see if it gets any important KO's on it's common switch-ins.

-edit- Fun Fact : 52 HP EVs is enough so live through STAB Technician boosted Bullet Punch from Scizor. (81.44% - 97.01%). But with CB ... (122.75% - 145.51%)

I've actually found Abomasnow to pretty useful for stopping a desperate attempt from a Scizor without SD or CB (CB varients tend to die pretty early on), purely cause I can EQ it or FP it on the turn it comes in (They always switch it in on Abomasnow, it's made me consider HP Fire).
 
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Mr.Karp

@ Thick Club
Scarfed Abomasnow is bad on a team where I already have something scarfed, using Blizzard etc. Not to mention Banded Abomasnow hits everything harder, not to mention Scarf is generally for revenge killers, which is not what Abomasnow is meant to be. Band let's it survive longer, especially since priority +2 Ice Shard has saved me so many times- priority is needed on most teams and Banded Abomasnow brings me that, amongst other things. Special Abomasnow is also useless on this team, considering almost everything except from my late game sweeper hits on the special side, and I have enough problems with Blissey and Co. as it is, so I won't changed Abomasnow to a special varient unless someone gives me a very good reason to.



I've actually found Abomasnow to pretty useful for stopping a desperate attempt from a Scizor without SD or CB (CB varients tend to die pretty early on), purely cause I can EQ it or FP it on the turn it comes in (They always switch it in on Abomasnow, it's made me consider HP Fire).

Isn't CB 1.5x? 0-0 Also, where are those calcs you were talking about earlier? I'd like to see them for myself, as Google hasn't found me it yet.

HP Fire also helps with Ferrothorn and Forretress.
 

Gren Draco

RIOTRIOTRIOTRIOTRIOT
Isn't CB 1.5x? 0-0 Also, where are those calcs you were talking about earlier? I'd like to see them for myself, as Google hasn't found me it yet.

Factoring in STAB.

and they're on Smogon somewhere in the DragonSpiral Tower section, I was browsing through a couple of days ago and saw them, but I can't remember exactly where they were- I think they were in a response by someone, not on a thread itself but I'm not sure.
 

Gren Draco

RIOTRIOTRIOTRIOTRIOT
I despise bumping, but I guess it's needed.
 
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