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(OU/UU) Great and Innovative things you've seen on the ladder

ger9119

Well-Known Member
The opposite of the very so popular Stupid Things thread, let's also provide some positive and creative stuff that we see while laddering.
 

Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
I don't see this thread working out. Most innovation is found in high level play and tours/tournaments, while the ladder is very copy/paste or just stupid. Heck, I can't build a team for crap and I consider myself an above-average player.

Also the above replay gave me aids. 2 SR setters on one team, Fake Out Mega Sableye without Recover, and everything with your opponent.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
I don't see this thread working out. Most innovation is found in high level play and tours/tournaments, while the ladder is very copy/paste or just stupid. Heck, I can't build a team for crap and I consider myself an above-average player.

Also the above replay gave me aids. 2 SR setters on one team, Fake Out Mega Sableye without Recover, and everything with your opponent.
There's innovation across the board, while yes it's harder to find on ladder it's there. Tours and High Level Play there's a lot of the same teams being passed around between players too, that's why everyone was using that Geomancy Pass team that was so innovative.
 

Psynergy

Strong Winds
Staff member
Super Mod
I've seen a few interesting things in the past though I don't remember the details nor would I know the sets and spreads.

I have seen a fun Conkeldurr set a friend has been running, though. Something like:

Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm / Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Poison Jab

Conkeldurr definitely has the movepool for Life Orb Sheer Force but most people run AV, and that's understandable. I guess it's kind of a lure more than anything but it messes with numerous walls, especially in luring in Clefable. That's partly what the Speed is for, but I'd probably consider shifting it to bulk or just run like 124 Speed to creep Clefable. Hammer Arm is kind of counter-productive to the speed but it can OHKO 252 HP / 88 Def Ferrothorn while Drain Punch can't, though Hammer Arm wants hazard damage since it's still a 62.5% chance to OHKO on top of that obnoxious 10% chance to miss. Never used it myself but I can definitely see some issues with the set. That said it's got its use in screwing over Clefable switch-ins and given that people expect AV Conkeldurr it's got notable surprise value.

There's also a hilarious offensive AV Donphan set I've seen used that beats Latios and Gengar but that's Donphan in OU so I won't bother.
 

Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty/Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake/Roost/Defog/Other team-specific coverage
- Heal Block

Latios lures in Chansey super easily, as even LO Psyshock can't 2HKO without a ton of prior damage. This lets you stop Chansey from using Softboiled (along with stopping Lefties recovery on other things like Heatran) and allows Latios to do enough damage to Chansey that something else can clean up or KO it outright. Works best on more offensive teams that can't afford to wear down Chansey via other means.
 
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ger9119

Well-Known Member
Jolteon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball

A set i've been innovating, same moveset/spread as Raikou but loses some bulk for some more power.
 

Reisuke

Apparently i died
Jolteon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball

A set i've been innovating, same moveset/spread as Raikou but loses some bulk for some more power.
Well jolteon's only faster and his base sp atk is actually lower than raikou's.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Well jolteon's only faster and his base sp atk is actually lower than raikou's.
AV Raikou runs timid, so with a modest nature Jolteon hits harder for basically the same amount of speed.

Timid 252 SPA Raikou- 329
Modest 252 SPA Jolteon- 350
 
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ger9119

Well-Known Member
Oh can be so yes. But modest also is an otion on raikou although not seen so much.
It's not really an option, since it makes it way slower than a lot of stuff it's suppose to come in on.
 

Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
Jolteon is bad. You give up a ton of bulk (Jolteon's 65/60/90 vs. Raikou's 90/75/100) and speed (Modest Jolteon is slower than Timid Raikou by 2 points, which is important since you lose speed ties against other base 115s like Starmie) for a very marginal boost to Special Attack.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Jolteon is bad. You give up a ton of bulk (Jolteon's 65/60/90 vs. Raikou's 90/75/100) and speed (Modest Jolteon is slower than Timid Raikou by 2 points, which is important since you lose speed ties against other base 115s like Starmie) for a very marginal boost to Special Attack.
Don't think its bad from testing it myself, it's less bulky but it hits harder. The 10 points on special defense is marginal at best. Physical defense stat doesn't really matter here either , neither one wants to take physical attacks. I give you the HP stat though. I wanted a volt switch AV user that hits harder than Raikou without making Raikou modest nature, Jolteon easily fills that void.
 
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Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
Don't think its bad from testing it myself, it's less bulky but it hits harder. The 10 points on special defense is marginal at best. Physical defense stat doesn't really matter here either , neither one wants to take physical attacks. I give you the HP stat though. I wanted a volt switch AV user that hits harder than Raikou without making Raikou modest nature, Jolteon easily fills that void.
The entire reason to use something with AV is so it can take hits, and yet you're dying to crap like Scarf Keldeo's Hydro Pump after rocks. And the Physical bulk does matter because you want to be able to take priority hits and such. Don't use Jolteon, it's a piece of sh*t.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
The entire reason to use something with AV is so it can take hits, and yet you're dying to crap like Scarf Keldeo's Hydro Pump after rocks. And the Physical bulk does matter because you want to be able to take priority hits and such. Don't use Jolteon, it's a piece of sh*t.
I'm using it by actually playing the game and it works just fine thanks for your input though :) because i'm switching in a Jolteon or a Raikou on a keldeo when the secret sword is still on the table that's a smart play overall.
 
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Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
I'm using it by actually playing the game and it works just fine thanks for your input though :) because i'm switching in a Jolteon or a Raikou on a keldeo when the secret sword is still on the table that's a smart play overall.
I never said Raikou was a counter, just that it can switch into Hydro Pump (which was more for proof-of-concept than anything). Jolteon is bad because it isn't very bulky even with an Assault Vest and it's that strong. Just use Raikou, which is actually a good Pokemon.
 
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A Raikou with an identical EV spread has about 41% more physical bulk and 24% more special bulk, as well as a tiny bit more speed. Meanwhile, Modest Jolteon only has about 6% more power. Seeing as how the main point of using an Assault Vest is to take hits, that minuscule bit of extra power is hardly worth the substantial amounts of bulk you're giving up. Modest Jolteon really is a worse version of Timid Raikou. If there was ever a reason to use Jolteon, it'd be to fully abuse its great Spe stat since being so fast without taking up a Mega slot is a cool thing to boast about. It's not enough to make it good, but at least it's something.
 

Rocxidi

The Jim Reaper
Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Substitute/Fire Blast
-Fly
-Earthquake

idk wtf this is but it works. shits on so many things like ferro and anything that can't take a godly fly. attack will skyrocket and hp will be full before you know it. loses to mons with protect and stuff like rotom
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
I never said Raikou was a counter, just that it can switch into Hydro Pump (which was more for proof-of-concept than anything). Jolteon is bad because it isn't very bulky even with an Assault Vest and it's that strong. Just use Raikou, which is actually a good Pokemon.
I use Raikou, just for that certain team I felt the extra amount of power is better than the extra bulk.
 
I once saw a tyranitar set with curse, Stone edge, payback, And I think it was Ice Punch, with a zoom lens. I thought this was a nice startegy and I believe the EV's were more defensively oriented. So Take a hit, use curse, take another hit, use payback, and You win.
 
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