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Over the Top! (079)
- Thread starter Serebii
- Start date
nuzamaki90
Well-Known Member
Dude, again, you are top tier delusional
Ash’s Riolu was trained nonstop and fought foe after foe before eventually leading to Cynthia. It also fought battles that it didn’t win, like against Mewtwo, Enternatus, Articuno, and Ash’s Greninja. It fought several notable Gym Leaders like Volkner, Raihan, and Bea. It was trained so much by Ash that Pikachu, his ace, got jealous of all the special treatment. To defeat a SINGLE one of Cynthia’s Pokemon Lucario had to not only MEGA EVOLVE but also uses AURA POWERS to to stand even the slightest of chances, 125 episodes into the series. You, Kazuniya the Village Troll, saw all of that and still came to the conclusion that MEGA Lucario’s victory against BASE Garchomp was nonsensical slop despite BASE Garchomp already being heavily damaged prior.
So why should anyone with any functioning brain cells take literally anything you are saying with any bit of seriousness when you are foaming at the mouth trying to defend Liko and Floragato beating a Champion’s Pokémon 46 episodes before Lucario could even think of lmaooooooo. By episode 79 Ash had only just defeated Volkner, meanwhile Liko is now one of the strongest trainers in the region with 0 badges to her name.
Like seriously dude, the lack of self awareness is truly mind boggling. I laugh every single time you make one of these below water temperature IQ replies.
Sham
Okay but Wistoria is actually so peak
All it takes is going through some of the past episode post threads to show that. Complaining about plot armor wins and using that as justification for plot armor wins of characters you like is strange.
At least be a real person and say “hey I stan this character and therefore I’m gonna enjoy whatever writing and wins the show gives us and that’s it” but to try to then bash people over the head with that opinion like it’s an objective fact is crazy work. Just say you like Liko and therefor you’re happy for her development and leave it at that. Because it’s very clear when other characters get wins or something “similar” to what she gets you dislike it.
Ash defeating Cynthia with a mega evolved Lucario he’s been training almost 120+ episodes into its series is ridiculous but Liko’s starter coming fresh off from a string of loses 70 episodes into the series beating Getta makes sense? Like either all or none of it makes sense.
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Xuxuba
Well-Known Member
I personally didn't think Ash beating Cynthia was that bad either.
Experience wise, sure it makes no sense for these 10 years old kids to be beating adults who have been doing this professionally for years. But this is something inherent to the franchise, like children traveling the world alone or dismantling the mafia
Experience wise, sure it makes no sense for these 10 years old kids to be beating adults who have been doing this professionally for years. But this is something inherent to the franchise, like children traveling the world alone or dismantling the mafia
Trey pokes
Well-Known Member
I liked how Memento was used. We need the anime to make more use of moves like these.
Leonora
Member
I've not seen so much discussion surrounding a Horizons episode before. Definitely contentious!
I've not watched any of the previous series bar dp and bw as a kid so I don't really have any frame of reference for how champions were treated or "powerscaled" previously, but to me I feel this was reasonable enough. Geeta sets up an unofficial trial battle to gauge whether the kids will be able to keep themselves safe while exploring area zero. She's just got 2 weaker Glimmets, backing up her Glimmora. The kids have to resort to pretty desperate strategies just to keep up with Geeta's handicapped 'trial team' so to speak. In the end, the three were able to just barely eek out a victory under niche conditions that Geeta herself set to test them. I don't imagine each of them would do nearly as well in a standard one-on-one battle against Geeta's actual team.
Of course Liko was the last one standing here but I feel this victory was testament to the three's combined teamwork. I see a lot of discussion framing this as Liko's win whereas I feel as if it's more Liko, Roy AND Dot's win, with Liko and Floragato standing firm to pull through for them all at the end. A nice way to reinforce that she's at her strongest when fighting for people she cares about too.
It's a shame to me to see discussion trend towards vitriol. I think there's room for both praise and critique without boiling things down to "Ash vs Liko". If I've got anything to critique, I'm a little sad that Dot and Quaxwell didn't get a 'big moment' here akin to Roy's boosted stomping tantrum and Liko finishing the fight.
I've not watched any of the previous series bar dp and bw as a kid so I don't really have any frame of reference for how champions were treated or "powerscaled" previously, but to me I feel this was reasonable enough. Geeta sets up an unofficial trial battle to gauge whether the kids will be able to keep themselves safe while exploring area zero. She's just got 2 weaker Glimmets, backing up her Glimmora. The kids have to resort to pretty desperate strategies just to keep up with Geeta's handicapped 'trial team' so to speak. In the end, the three were able to just barely eek out a victory under niche conditions that Geeta herself set to test them. I don't imagine each of them would do nearly as well in a standard one-on-one battle against Geeta's actual team.
Of course Liko was the last one standing here but I feel this victory was testament to the three's combined teamwork. I see a lot of discussion framing this as Liko's win whereas I feel as if it's more Liko, Roy AND Dot's win, with Liko and Floragato standing firm to pull through for them all at the end. A nice way to reinforce that she's at her strongest when fighting for people she cares about too.
It's a shame to me to see discussion trend towards vitriol. I think there's room for both praise and critique without boiling things down to "Ash vs Liko". If I've got anything to critique, I'm a little sad that Dot and Quaxwell didn't get a 'big moment' here akin to Roy's boosted stomping tantrum and Liko finishing the fight.
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Almighty Zard
He has returned.
you tell others to let things go, but you keep bringing up stuff, that only intensifies the fight as well.
Then again maybe it's bias because you clearly don't like Lucario, but I see a certain cat in your avatar...
Greninja was the one who started it all, the breaking of the status quo where we thought E4 and champion level trainers couldn't be touched because it knocked Diantha's Mega Gardevoir down hard, and Ash could've very well won that fight if he hadn't passed out.
Regardless that day a "chink" was put into notion Ash would never get to that level, and that chink turned into a gap that widened more over time, effectively being all but shattered after he beat Iris.
the biggest thing I didn't like about Iris being champion was that axew was the only pokemon of hers to gain anything out of it. Her Dragonite was still a huge loser, and Excadrill to me felt like it had been downgraded considering it had to use a OHKO move to knock out Cynthia's Gastrodon, who Pikachu beat a few episodes later, with it's best moves sealed off.
Honestly I just had a bad thought about all this, imagine if Roy had been the one to score the knock out instead of Liko...cause I know how hated he seems to be on this board...
AuraChannelerChris
"What the hell...?"
UltimateNinja
Praying for the holy relics
Yeah, I am not really liking Liko suddenly beating Geeta even though its a 3 vs 1 ans maybe she just used a weaker team.
I dont know if they intentionally did this and then they have her single handedly beat the crap out of the Explorers later on and Liko noticing they only wanted to push her self-esteem but yeah, I think this would've been better as one of final episode of the series.
I dont know if they intentionally did this and then they have her single handedly beat the crap out of the Explorers later on and Liko noticing they only wanted to push her self-esteem but yeah, I think this would've been better as one of final episode of the series.
1rkhachatryan
Call me Robert guys
Everyone acting like Liko's such a loser and couldn't touch any of the gym leaders is wild completely ignoring the context of those battles.
Katy was literally the first time she terastallized and also didn't have a effective move while the second round the gym leaders decided consistency means nothing and made up there own rules and both Dot and Liko would have gotten wins in those battles if not for the switching out.
The point is that she's learning from every battle she's in and applying the skills to the next one. The strategy used here was awesome and showed how much the gang had grown since the last time that Geeta had seen them. She herself was straight up impressed by their skills even before the ending.
Katy was literally the first time she terastallized and also didn't have a effective move while the second round the gym leaders decided consistency means nothing and made up there own rules and both Dot and Liko would have gotten wins in those battles if not for the switching out.
The point is that she's learning from every battle she's in and applying the skills to the next one. The strategy used here was awesome and showed how much the gang had grown since the last time that Geeta had seen them. She herself was straight up impressed by their skills even before the ending.
Trey pokes
Well-Known Member
Liko could probably take on the M8 in no time flat tbh.
nuzamaki90
Well-Known Member
The last time she saw them was literally 11 episodes ago haha. How in the world did they go from struggling against the gym leaders to stronger than the champion in 11 episodes jajajaj
Little Hero
Well-Known Member
Geeta was obviously testing the kids more than anything...so, what's the problem?
Almighty Zard
He has returned.
the problem is that to alot of us it undercuts the status of the title of champion, something that shouldn't be taken lightly.
this is one time where a pity win would've been the better choice.
1rkhachatryan
Call me Robert guys
Oh come on, beating one champions pokemon is not the same as being stronger them them. This was not a title match, stop acting like Liko beat her in a one on one fight lol.
The ENTIRE point of the fight was to test if they can handle themselves in Area zero and the kids proved that they can, that's literally it, ya'll are acting like Liko's just been made the new champion of the Paldea region lol.
Articfoxgamez
I Exist.
This is certainly a thread huh.
The way I see it, it was a 3v3 where 2 of one of the teams were first stage pokemon that aren't even on her actual team.
I'd agree with the complaints if one of the kids won in like, a 1v1 against Geeta but that isn't what happened.
(Also Tera boosted moves are treated as a lot stronger here than they are in the games which is important to remember.)
The way I see it, it was a 3v3 where 2 of one of the teams were first stage pokemon that aren't even on her actual team.
I'd agree with the complaints if one of the kids won in like, a 1v1 against Geeta but that isn't what happened.
(Also Tera boosted moves are treated as a lot stronger here than they are in the games which is important to remember.)
Almighty Zard
He has returned.
I mean we've had people go crazy when Iris knocked down Cynthia's Garchomp and Diantha got condemned by people because Ash-Greninja knocked her mega Gardevoir down hard.
We know it that they don't become champion by winning, but they should NOT be strong enough to beat a champion level trainer is the thing here.
1rkhachatryan
Call me Robert guys
And they WEREN'T which is why it took three of them combined to beat 1 champions pokemon lol.