I think they're being deliberately obtuse and looking for a way to spin it into some kind of error in logic or bad writing. Your words are easy to understand, they just have zero desire to understand. They've been camping in this thread for the whole damn day, lashing out at anyone who liked this episode. It's pathetic and childish, in particular their obsession with uplifting Ash while putting down Liko/Roy/Dot.
Oh my god the amount of hypocrisy and self projection you’re throwing our way just because you can’t handle that not everyone has your opinion or a favourable outlook on this episode is hilarious but at this point downright insane.
Dude, YOU are the one who attacked us. I hadn’t even quoted anyone or mentioned Ash (I had just talked about this moment being worse than JN powerscaling), YOU were the one who immediately quoted me to PUT DOWN Ash while uplift Liko, where is the self reflection??? You were the one who started that argument in the first place and CONSTANTLY keeps bringing that up and shading others by editing ur posts instead of properly engaging with them and when you don’t have anything to say decide to be toxic and a massive ahole because god forbid anyone disagrees. Me and
@nuzamaki90 weren’t even toxic, just stating our displeasure at the episode. We could have easily been as toxic as people were when JN was airing but guessing by your immature behaviour that would have probably given you an aneurysm. The funny thing is that I really like Liko so the self victimising card you’re trying to play just falls flat on your face. Its actually incredible how dense you are being here.
…..I just wanna say the same people who were complaining that Roy defeated two Paldea Gym leaders after rematches are the same people defending Liko defending its Champion. Do with this what you want
But hey, it isn’t stan bias whatsoever no sir.
Nobody said the writing made perfect sense, but you're trying to make it far worse than it already is by claiming that Floragato took a full-powered blow to the face and still survived, while ignoring the fact that some of the impact was absorbed by Quaxwell and Crocalor. If you want to argue that it's bad writing, then please feel free to do so, but don't be dishonest.
I think our point is that we get that Crocalor and Quaxwell lessened the impact, but the damage Floragato took still should have been enough for her considering Geeta was who they were battling. Of course not everyone agrees on that but based on established strength paramters so far its just jarring to see Floragato survive all that while Glimmora goes down in 3 moves (More on that later)
All it takes is going through some of the past episode post threads to show that. Complaining about plot armor wins and using that as justification for plot armor wins of characters you like is strange.
At least be a real person and say “hey I stan this character and therefore I’m gonna enjoy whatever writing and wins the show gives us and that’s it” but to try to then bash people over the head with that opinion like it’s an objective fact is crazy work. Just say you like Liko and therefor you’re happy for her development and leave it at that. Because it’s very clear when other characters get wins or something “similar” to what she gets you dislike it.
Ash defeating Cynthia with a mega evolved Lucario he’s been training almost 120+ episodes into its series is ridiculous but Liko’s starter coming fresh off from a string of loses 70 episodes into the series beating Getta makes sense? Like either all or none of it makes sense.
Thank you! I remember you vividly criticising JN Powerscaling all the time, esp with Iris, so you’re being consistent here not just coz it affected ur bias which is Iris. Unlike someone else here
I personally didn't think Ash beating Cynthia was that bad either.
Experience wise, sure it makes no sense for these 10 years old kids to be beating adults who have been doing this professionally for years. But this is something inherent to the franchise, like children traveling the world alone or dismantling the mafia
See you and
@Liko2024 have been really fun to discuss this with because even if we are on opposing viewpoints Ive never felt that the talks have been disingenuous at all and I get your viewpoints too, its just on the fundamental level I guess I disagree with them. But yeah the experience point you mentioned is what I wanted to properly elucidate on earlier, its a franchise staple for people with years of experience to eventually be toppled by the youngsters after hard work and creating proper bonds with the pokemon they train. Plus its not like in the prior series just coz he’s 10 there hasn’t been a long period of time of him training and growing from different regions with even in series its stated months pass for different events.
I’m crying Alder really is the only Champion (well discounting Nemona as of right now that is) that was never defeated on screen.
Another way you can see it is that he’s the only Champion who was discarded to be defeated off screen without ever showing it
Honestly Alder is the main character who I loved in the games but was treated horrendously in the anime.
Geeta was obviously testing the kids more than anything...so, what's the problem?
Because the test was a pokemon battle they had to win….. and Geeta’s entire character is that she doesn’t know how to hold back in pokemon battles. This excuse will work on anyone else BUT her.
This is certainly a thread huh.
The way I see it, it was a 3v3 where 2 of one of the teams were first stage pokemon that aren't even on her actual team.
I'd agree with the complaints if one of the kids won in like, a 1v1 against Geeta but that isn't what happened.
(Also Tera boosted moves are treated as a lot stronger here than they are in the games which is important to remember.)
The tera blast that got overpowered by Floragato was Tera boosted too btw. Also, we don’t know her actual team since the anime doesn’t always have the same as in the games but even then just coz they are first stage doesn’t mean much in the anime esp when they did give the trio a hard time. Not to mention their memento (Now Ill have to rewatch to see if Floragato also got memento’ed or not but I think she did which means she was already weakened)
I mean, it'd be one thing if Horizons had already estabilished champions as godlike beings, but this is their first real display within this continuity. I guess if you consider this as an extension of Ash series then i can see where you are coming from, but even before DP champions were treated so badly they rarely appeared, battled or were relevant in any way lol
I mean Lance had a much more powerful showing than this. He easily swatted away Team rocket grunts that were more competent than Trio, destroyed a TR executive in battle and stopped the Rampaging gyarados. He then of course also helped stop Team Aqua and Magma. Much more impressive than Geeta’s first showing. Even in Diantha’s first showing she defeated a trainer and curbstomped Ash while being shown to have an insane bond with her gardevoir. Even Alder who honestly was the worst showcasing before this completely destroyed a Trip who was at his peak strength.
Compare that with Geeta’s first showing today, Geeta is shown insanely weak here.
Well, Lance hardly appeared in Johto, being there just to mess with Team Rocket. Steven might aswell have been a CoD in AG lol
They had a boost in importance after DP, but before that it was clear they weren't as relevant as in the games for over 10 years.
Just saying, i wouldn't call their representation much better, even if Horizons estabilishes a new power scaling where champions aren't as powerful as portrayed in Ash's series post DP, especially considering Paldea has multiple of them.
That would hold true if the trio were shown to be properly above atleast gym leader… which is honestly very hard to say based on their showing until now.
I do understand both perspectives but Glimmora fainting doesn't mean Geeta is particularly weak at least based on what information we have imo because if she's using two random Glimmets, it's plausible that this isn't her strongest Glimmora. But it's also possible that the direction for writing in Horizons is fine having strong trainers/Pokemon lose if the kids are using good enough strategies. I'd honestly favor the former of the two though, even if it's just for the sake of consistency. The kids can be good trainers, but we've seen characters portrayed/expected to be way more experienced and competent than them get their **** pushed in against trainers with titles so this result is understandably kind of jarring especially given that none of them are seasoned trainers or competing in a league which is why I'm much more inclined to believe that this isn't Geeta's main Glimmora. Because if we're being honest, if this was like Leon's Charizard, Cynthia's Garchomp, Steven's Metagross, etc. regardless of whatever strategy the kids used you'd expect them to still get no diff'd. But the anime has always been fairly wonky with powerscaling...
Side note: I think people forget/don't realize that a lot of rhetoric and stigma against Geeta and Diantha in particular stems from what people experienced in the games. In a similar sense, it's also a reason why Cynthia in particular has always generally been seen as one of/the strongest champion prior to Sword & Shield (and Journeys) declaring Leon as that trainer.
X and Y were genuinely breezes to play through in part because the game gave you so many hand outs (on top of your Kalos starter, you get a Kanto starter with a mega stone, a Lucario with a mega stone, Torchic with a mega stone (via mystery gift)) and the exp. share made you super overleveled by the time you reach the Elite Four. Diantha also just had a really underwhelming team in-game (slow dragon type in Tyrantrum that'd faint to any super-effective special move, slow rock/Ice type Aurorus, worst psuedo-mon in Goodra, Gourgeist just a general shitmon, leaving her with Hawlucha and Mega Gardevoir which didn't even have Hyper Voice to make use of Pixilate). She's also just not really present during most of the game/does nothing in regards to dealing with Team Flare aside from saying she disagrees with Lysandre's view.
Scarlet and Violet kinda runs into the same issue where you'd genuinely have to avoid a lot of trainer battles to not end up being overleveled by the time you do the champion assessment and those games in particular, GF made no real effort to make the opponents very strong. And then once you reach Geeta, her team is composed of mid to ****-tier mons like Avalugg and Veluza because they wanted her team to be thematic even if the mons were genuinely bad for the point of the game you're facing them.
Cynthia in D/P/P on the other hand has mons that are all at least decent/viable for the generation they're inand they all have 30 ivs. You're also not going to be overleveled or even at the same level as the Elite 4 and champion without grinding before hand. This is basically the case for pretty much every champion except Geeta and Diantha in particular.
Narratively, you can admit the glaring issues with this episode's result if we're to assume this is Geeta's main Glimmora. Champions are portrayed as the strongest in the region and losing the first battle we see her in against Liko/Roy/Dot can create a lot of problems, even if she was mainly assessing their strength for Area 0.
Honestly the fact that you guys have to headcanon that Glimmora isnt her main for whatever reason just for this to make more sense when there has been nothing shown at all to indicate that is a huge sign that the writing wasn’t at all believable.
ok yeah saw it and the whole fight did really feel like it was more of a test to see if they're capable of getting into AZ, though yeah that final clash was definitely iffy
Either way an excuse to get this meme out of cryo
Ah man…. You know I was so happy when Geeta was first revealed that we have an Indian champion, let’s gooo. Only to be utterly disappointed by her in the games and then the anime giving her the worst performance of any champion yet as well.
What do you mean without the damage lol?? Floragato landed Sucker and the finishing blow. Two out of the three moves that ended up KOing Glimmora, and considering the finishing blow was a 2x SE Overgrow+Tera boosted Magical Leaf, I don’t think anyone would even think of arguing that Liko didn’t do the majority of the damage to secure the W haha.
Finally, I’m not gonna keep repeating myself about this whole “testing” nonsense lol. You guys convinced yourselves of this in order to justify the end result.
Like Geeta is the one character this testing bs doesn’t hold water for, its ridiculous dude.
It didn't just "contribute", it was outright pointed out that that hit would've knocked out Kiraflor had it not been for the Memento debuff substantially reducing how much damage it dealt.
…. You do realise that makes it worse right? That a non stab 150 attack ground type move by Roy can one shot the champion’s ace?
