Over-used Pokemon in fanfics

[Estuary]

All of these things are circumstances around the Pokémon, not inherently related to the Pokémon themselves; calling them the worst things "about overused Pokémon" is really not accurate. Overused Pokémon do get used a lot in these circumstances, yes, but it's still the circumstances that are causing the real problem here, not the Pokémon species - they would not magically be fine and dandy if the Pokémon used were underused, and overused Pokémon don't magically call for these circumstances where underused Pokémon wouldn't. If a writer is inexperienced enough to make those kinds of mistakes, they'd make them no matter what Pokémon they used - and conversely, overused Pokémon in the hands of a writer who knows what they're doing aren't going to automatically lead to these kinds of stupidities.

Same thing with this; it's not the overused Pokémon that are making those bad fics bad, it's the inexperience of the writer that's causing both. Correlation is not causation, and pointing to overused Pokémon as inherently a problem in themselves is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Most of those are the idiotic methods in which people give their characters overused Pokemon. Plus, one of those didn't even have anything to do with rare Pokemon. I was trying to give advice to aspiring authors. I suppose I'll go back and edit that. However, these things would be far less egregious if the Pokemon in question wasn't rare. As in, WE NEED YOU TO TAKE THIS RARE POKEMON! NOBODY ELSE WANTS IT! Sure, that would make sense with a Caterpie or something- but not a Charmander. And you're right- inexperienced writers do write poorly. In fact, they tend to have overused Pokemon in their 'fic. I use that as an indication of an inexperienced writer in the same way that I use misspellings as one.

In other words, the same reason that an inexperienced writer makes a bad 'fic is the same reason that they choose an overused Pokemon. The overused Pokemon is not the cause of the badfic, it is a symptom.

Mind you, I only feel this way about Charmander and Eevee, and then the obvious overpowered ones (Dratini, Larvitar, Deino, etc..). I just have yet to read a thoroughly good 'fic which includes these- at least, includes them properly. And yes, I do try. Because the immaturity that causes people to choose these Pokemon without a good reason is what causes the 'fic to be bad.

All-in-all, I'm having a hard time understand why people just have to have these damn Pokemon as starters. As a kid, I thought Charmander and Eevee were pretty stupid... Gastly or Bulbasaur would have been my favorite starters. And yet I've never given a trainer one of those, because I feel like it would be cheating, or something. Why would I give my character a Pokemon I think is cool? I'd rather make things harder for them. That was my train of thought, when I was a new writer. Hell, in my very first Pokemon 'fic (8, I think? Back before I knew what fanfiction was), I gave my trainer a Goldeen named Cherry for a starter. And it was way more interesting than most of the Charmander/Eevee nonsense I've waded through (GOLDEEN LAND TACKLE FIGHT, YEAH). I guess I was alone in that sentiment.

 

[Dragonfree]

However, these things would be far less egregious if the Pokemon in question wasn't rare.

Rare and overused are two different things. They'd definitely (well, some of them; I really don't think Nurse Joy being all "oh hai take this injured Pokémon that's barely recovered from its near-fatal wounds and be its trainer!" makes any great deal more sense with a Caterpie than an Eevee) be less of a problem if the Pokémon were dirt-common - but again, you're conflating overusedness with something that's not actually directly related to it. Most overused Pokémon, as it happens, are rare, and there are various circumstances that are a hell of a lot less believable if they involve rare, powerful Pokémon than if they involved common Pokémon... but they'd still be bad if it were a rare, powerful Pokémon that was basically never seen in fanfic, and they don't apply for overused Pokémon that are common. (While having Professor Oak randomly give out pseudo-legendaries is bizarre and Sueish, having Professor Oak give out Charmander is as mundane as you can get.)

And you're right- inexperienced writers do write poorly. In fact, they tend to have overused Pokemon in their 'fic. I use that as an indication of an inexperienced writer in the same way that I use misspellings as one.

And I'm not going to fault you for whatever rules of thumb you happen to use to gauge the odds a fic is good before you read further - you can decide what you choose to read on any basis you feel like. But that doesn't mean the thing itself is inherently bad. As it happens, misspellings are inherently bad (well, unless used effectively in an intentional way, but I wouldn't really call that 'misspellings' anyway) - any fic with misspellings is worse than it would be without the misspellings - but overused Pokémon are not.

Other people turn away and stop reading as soon as they realize a fic is an OT fic, because OT fics tend to be what newbies to the fandom first attempt and therefore more OT fics are written by inexperienced writers than other genres. But you'll probably agree (since you seem to at least in theory like OT fics) that it would be unfair for these people to therefore simply assert that "OT fics are bad, don't write them." It would be far more productive to teach people how to do them right, not just dismissively tell them not to do them. Even if you've personally given up trying to read fics with overused Pokémon because they just so often turn out to be bad, it doesn't make the overusedness a problem that needs to be purged from the fanfic world - if newbie writers all had it drilled into their heads that they can't have their trainer rescue an injured overused Pokémon, they're just going to have their trainer rescue an injured underused Pokémon, and we'd have gotten nowhere at all with the real issue.

 

[Estuary]

Rare and overused are two different things. They'd definitely (well, some of them; I really don't think Nurse Joy being all "oh hai take this injured Pokémon that's barely recovered from its near-fatal wounds and be its trainer!" makes any great deal more sense with a Caterpie than an Eevee) be less of a problem if the Pokémon were dirt-common - but again, you're conflating overusedness with something that's not actually directly related to it. Most overused Pokémon, as it happens, are rare, and there are various circumstances that are a hell of a lot less believable if they involve rare, powerful Pokémon than if they involved common Pokémon... but they'd still be bad if it were a rare, powerful Pokémon that was basically never seen in fanfic, and they don't apply for overused Pokémon that are common. (While having Professor Oak randomly give out pseudo-legendaries is bizarre and Sueish, having Professor Oak give out Charmander is as mundane as you can get.)

I was using rare in the example "nobody wants this Pokemon! Take it!"- not the injured Pokemon example- because often, that situation involves an abandoned or recently repaired Pokemon- not necessarily hurt. In which case, yes, it is very different. It's often an awful excuse to give a trainer a rare Pokemon. No one in their right mind would abandon an Eevee, even if it was weak or mean. Anyone might abandon a Caterpie, though, in which case the example might make sense (if it wasn't capable of living in the wild anymore).

And I don't quite understand what you're getting at in the third, very long, sentence.

Other people turn away and stop reading as soon as they realize a fic is an OT fic, because OT fics tend to be what newbies to the fandom first attempt and therefore more OT fics are written by inexperienced writers than other genres. But you'll probably agree (since you seem to at least in theory like OT fics) that it would be unfair for these people to therefore simply assert that "OT fics are bad, don't write them." It would be far more productive to teach people how to do them right, not just dismissively tell them not to do them. Even if you've personally given up trying to read fics with overused Pokémon because they just so often turn out to be bad, it doesn't make the overusedness a problem that needs to be purged from the fanfic world - if newbie writers all had it drilled into their heads that they can't have their trainer rescue an injured overused Pokémon, they're just going to have their trainer rescue an injured underused Pokémon, and we'd have gotten nowhere at all with the real issue.

In theory? I love OT 'fics. They're the only fanfiction I have ever read. I could point out plenty of good ones (none of which include the aforementioned). And I have certainly not given up on 'fics with overused Pokemon. I read quite far into yours, despite being an applicable example of bizarrely obtained overused Pokemon (at least, in the beginning, as far as I know). I have never stopped reading a 'fic because I read 'Charmander'. I at least finish the chapter, because I'd like to find an example to point to when I say 'yes, Charmander and Eevee can be done right. Look at this.' But sadly, I haven't.

Charmander and Eevee are boring, I have been reading about them since the '90s. Hell, they have their own archetypes. Sad abandoned Eeveemander, cute peppy Eevee, moody/badass Charmander who scratches and burns his trainer.. It has been done to death. Again, I can't keep them straight. It's like going to the Star Wars section on ff.net and only seeing stories about Luke. Nobody else. Just Luke. It makes me want to say, Jesus, there are other characters to write about! And in the Pokemon world, there are SIX HUNDRED. I don't understand why anybody would want to read about yet another Charmander or Eevee.

 

[Dragonfree]

And I don't quite understand what you're getting at in the third, very long, sentence.

I was getting at how circumstances that are contrived for overused rare Pokémon are also contrived for underused rare Pokémon - it's the rareness factor that's making abandoned Eevee more contrived than abandoned Caterpie, not the overusedness factor. Conversely, it isn't contrived or nonsensical for a Charmander to be given out at Professor Oak's, no matter how overused Charmander is, because Professor Oak canonically gives out Charmander. Or, in other words, it's not in any of these cases the actual overusedness of the Pokémon species that makes the scenario poor writing - the rarity can be a factor, but a Pokémon being overused doesn't in itself make its presence more contrived than otherwise.

Charmander and Eevee are boring, I have been reading about them since the '90s. Hell, they have their own archetypes. Sad abandoned Eeveemander, cute peppy Eevee, moody/badass Charmander who scratches and burns his trainer.. It has been done to death. Again, I can't keep them straight. It's like going to the Star Wars section on ff.net and only seeing stories about Luke. Nobody else. Just Luke. It makes me want to say, Jesus, there are other characters to write about! And in the Pokemon world, there are SIX HUNDRED. I don't understand why anybody would want to read about yet another Charmander or Eevee.

But Charmander and Eevee are species (and they're not in literally every single fic, for that matter). It's not like everybody writing literally only about Luke; it's like humans (or the humanlike species in the Star Wars galaxy) getting written about a lot more than all the other species, which people kind of do all the time and yet nobody's heaping scorn on the very idea of people writing more fics with humans in them. I get being sick of certain archetypes being played straight all the time because that can result in stories where large portions play out in a virtually identical way, but you lose me at "so therefore I don't see why anyone would ever want to read about another character that even shares a SPECIES with those archetypes."

 

[Stage On]

I think riolu is used way too much. It seems everyone doesnt want to use regular pokemon so they use something different. This pokemon usually ends up a riolu because their lucario evolution. A lucario makes the character more "special" than everyone else. If you want something special, dont use an overused pokemon. I've never seen a flying type starter. Or a tauros or anything like that! Do some looking around before you pick your fanfic starter.

But is it bad for the main character to have something if it makes sense? For example the main character of my story is an Aura guardian so naturally having an aura sensitive Pokemon like Rilou as a starter is just simple logic, especially as he's from the same region that Rilou are native to.

 

[Psychic]

As others have said, it's about the way you portray a Pokemon, not their species.

That said, if the character slot can literally be filled by just about any Pokemon, I personally enjoy seeing Pokemon that often don't get a lot of attention/screen time. I don't necessarily get bored of seeing the same Pokemon being used, but it certainly can be refreshing to see a Pokemon whose existence I simply forgot about. Bonus points if the Pokemon is portrayed in an interesting, original way, whether they're popular or not.

That's really what it boils down to either way, of course. I really don't think a Pokemon's species is going to make or break a fic. As with anything else in writing, using a popular Pokemon is only a possible symptom of a problem, the same way an OC having a Shiny Pokemon is only a possible symptom of being a Mary-Sue. Seeing a symptom does not guarantee that the illness itself is present.

Speaking of which, Shiny Pokemon can be fairly common in fics, which is kind of annoying since Shinies are inherently rare-as-hell. Obviously each fic takes place in its own world, but it just becomes annoying to see so many writers trying to make their character special by giving them a Shiny. It almost devalues Shinies after seeing them so often.


Anyhow, popularity is especially prevalent in the RPG forum. Whether RPers are making applications for a trainer with a team of six Pokemon or they're just RPing a single Pokemon, there are definite trends in what Pokemon get picked. This actually gets a little annoying during the course of the RPG where Pokemon characters often aren't as fleshed out as human characters, so you just see three identical Luxray running around and lose track of who's who. Oh, and you get lots of Shiny Pokemon, too. It just gets old.

^as for a flying type starter, people use Charmander and it evolves into a flying type I think.

Nah, not really - since Charmander only gains a partial flying-type once it's fully evolved, which would take a pretty darn long time, it's really just considered a fire-type.

But is it bad for the main character to have something if it makes sense? For example the main character of my story is an Aura guardian so naturally having an aura sensitive Pokemon like Rilou as a starter is just simple logic, especially as he's from the same region that Rilou are native to.

As others have said, if it's important to the plot or related to the character's personality/background, then it's not a problem. As long as you portray Riolu as a proper, developed character, nobody's going to complain.


~Psychic

 

[3D992]

But is it bad for the main character to have something if it makes sense? For example the main character of my story is an Aura guardian so naturally having an aura sensitive Pokemon like Rilou as a starter is just simple logic, especially as he's from the same region that Rilou are native to.

It's fine if the story fits perfectly. I'm mainly thinking of a fic where someone just stumbled upon a riolu and decided to make it their first pokemon. It made absolutely no sense at all. I saw two other fics that day that had random riolu starters in them. I've read your fic and I think it's fine to have a riolu.

 

[Slipomatic]

I personally don't care about which pokemon is used. As long as it makes sense and the story is written well, the choice of pokemon doesn't matter. Yes, it would be more interesting using pokemon that aren't used a lot, but it's all about quality, not quantity. I read a lot of fics that use the said, "over-used" pokemon and I enjoyed every one of them, because I look at the story as a whole and not get turned away because it used an "over-used" pokemon. And to be honest, I am a bit biased and will read stories that tend to use "over-used" pokemon more than a story using a pokemon like shuppet or some "under-used" pokemon.

I view pokemon as a sidekick (if it's a trainer/pokemon story) and an important character. Whatever pokemon it is is up to the author, as long as it makes sense. I agree with badly thought out reasons of acquiring said pokemon being awful and a way to ruin a story. I may be an inexperienced author, but I do not see any fault with "over-used" pokemon being used in stories.

 

[SBaby]

TRAINER: ... But that doesn't make any sense. How do you even know I'm a good trainer? For all you know, I could have hurt it! This is a Pokemon Center, and I'm TEN, and I'm sure tons of more experienced trainers would love a rare Pokemon like-

You forgot one:

Trainer: "I'm TEN and my Mom said I could drop out of school to go out into a dangerous world, filled with bloodthirsty monsters and insane maniacs, all to accomplish my dream of catching animals and making them battle other peoples' animals for fun and profit."

Professor: "Oh, is that all? Ok. Let's get you your starter."

My point, THEY DON'T ALL HAVE TO START OUT AT 10 YEARS OF AGE!!!


That ties into my next point though. Alot of people complain about Fics not being realistic. Let me just say that someone saying that something in a Pokemon Fic is 'unrealistic' is one of the funniest things there is to read on this site.

Bringing up realism in Pokemon is an exercise in utter futility. Think about it. We're talking about a world where the average child drops out of school at 10 years of age, goes out into a dangerous world, where these creatures often possess supernatural powers, like shooting lightning out of their cheeks, or lobbing fireballs at one another, or speaking telepathically. And a majority of their culture revolves around catching said Pokemon out of the wild and making them battle other Trainers' Pokemon for fun and profit. I think we officially passed 'realism' years ago.

 

[JX Valentine]

You forgot one:

Trainer: "I'm TEN and my Mom said I could drop out of school to go out into a dangerous world, filled with bloodthirsty monsters and insane maniacs, all to accomplish my dream of catching animals and making them battle other peoples' animals for fun and profit."

Professor: "Oh, is that all? Ok. Let's get you your starter."

My point, THEY DON'T ALL HAVE TO START OUT AT 10 YEARS OF AGE!!!

Except you should probably have a reason for doing that. Considering the fact that the legal minimum age for getting a trainer's license is canonically ten and considering how the entire culture in that world encourages people to get licenses as soon as possible (with certain canon universes -- more specifically Electric Tale of Pikachu -- carefully explaining how a trainer could do that without actually dropping out of school), deciding to get one later is a lot like refusing to get your driver's license at sixteen when you live in a community where all the cool kids drive. Technically, sure, you can get your license whenever you please, but you should be acknowledging the way the world canonically works in the process with a reasonable explanation. (No, "because older people can handle themselves better in a world of bloodthirsty monsters" is not a reasonable explanation unless your take on the world of Pokémon has decided to be darker and edgier than canon a la Cornova's fics. I honestly would trust some ten-year-olds more than some eighteen-year-olds when it comes to which group has enough common sense to take care of themselves. Meanwhile, the school bit can be explained away if you're willing to do some creative world building. Potential explanations include online schooling, training actually being akin to studying abroad, and Electric Tale's explanation of "it's actually just a leave of absence sanctioned by the trainer's school for a set period of time." You can even say that the culture of the Pokémon world's completely different and get into the value of a trainer's journey -- as in, why everyone goes on one -- in order to come up with a decent explanation. Point is, the age limit of a trainer's license is actually potentially more logical than you're giving it credit for; you just have to have the creativity and willingness to expand on it. As for the point of being a trainer, that could be anything from a spiritual journey/rite of passage to adulthood a la the Native American customs to "it's celebrated cockfighting," which means that either way, there's some basis in reality for why this kind of sport exists.)

Which I guess is your main point (by saying that not all of them have to start out at ten), but the problem is there's actually tons of writers who don't have a ten-year-old protagonist but never bother to adequately bring up why they're not ten. I'd actually say it's more common to see a trainer start out at an age older than ten for no apparent reason than it is to see a trainer start out at ten just because canon says that's the minimum age for a license.

That ties into my next point though. Alot of people complain about Fics not being realistic. Let me just say that someone saying that something in a Pokemon Fic is 'unrealistic' is one of the funniest things there is to read on this site.

Except the reason why people say it is because there's only so many stunts you can pull before the reader ends up lost. As in, the whole reason why people talk about realism or logic in a fic is because there's a difference between being creative and not making sense. If you don't bother to make sense (by refusing to acknowledge at least some of the rules of the universe), you either end up with a Mary Sue or a rather poor attempt at surrealism. Point is, yes, you still need to keep in mind some sense of realism. Gravity still works. People can still drown if you stick them in water long enough. Not everyone is God. And more related to the question at hand (and the point Clare was making by bringing up realism), not everyone has access to extremely rare Pokémon like Eevee, the Kanto starters, shinies, or any of the legendaries. (This also feeds into my own response to the thread.) While Pokémon may have fantasy powers whose explanations and boundaries depend on the writer, you still need to put into effect boundaries and limitations on the rest of the universe in order for the story to make sense.

Back on topic, there's really not much more I can add to the topic without repeating what's already been said, particularly by Negrek, Psychic, and Dragonfree. Even more than that, though, I actually agree with smashlloyd's comment about it being blown out of proportion. Seriously, the definition of an overused Pokémon is vague to begin with and depends so much on both the time period and the community that it's rather silly to even bother being worried about that, not to put it overly bluntly. I mean, I can't honestly name you a fanfic that was written in the past two years and posted to this forum that actually has a character (any character) start out with a Charmander. And then, back on the board I frequented before coming to Serebii, I know for a fact that there hasn't been a Charmander starter for the past four years. Charmander's fallen out of favor, in part because it's the go-to Pokémon when people think "overused" (ironically) and in part because Gen I starters just haven't been all that trendy lately, whereas the latest gen's starters have. Sometimes. Other times, people like to replace those too. Meanwhile, I know that Riolu might be overused on FFNet, but it's not really used all that often on Pokécommunity, as an off-handed example. Really, just about the only universally overused Pokémon I can think of are probably Eevee and Pikachu, and in those cases, whether or not they're workable all depends on what a writer does with them for reasons that have already been mentioned. Just having a character obtain a Pikachu doesn't mean a story's trite, but having a character obtain a Pikachu via a carbon copy of the beginning of the first anime episode is. But in that case, that's just a problem with the story, not the Pokémon choice; you could replace Pikachu with a Clefairy and still end up with a trite beginning.

So, I guess you could say I just don't think that much about the subject and have no problems whatsoever with giving my characters whatever I feel like giving them so long as I can come up with a reasonable explanation for how they got it. *le shrug*

ETA: Also:

- ... Thinking of a different way to have Dratini as a starter... erm.. TBA.

"As a member of the Dragon Clan of Blackthorn, you must participate in a rite of passage to prove that you are an adult. Here's a Dratini. Commence with the dragon bar mitzvah."

"As your grandfather, the Safari Zone's warden, I've caught the rarest Pokémon in the Safari Zone for you to start with. Only the best for my little grandchild!"

"I spent nearly all my savings on slots in Celadon City, but I only had enough coins for a crappy Dratini that only knows Wrap. I could either stay in town and wait for debt collectors to beat the crap out of me, or I can set off on a fantastic journey as a trainer and potentially earn money by using this crappy Dratini as a whip in glorified cockfights. ...Easiest decision ever."

You don't have to be particularly experienced or established to come up with new ways to do things, even in this fandom. In fact, this fandom makes it rather easy because everyone goes on and on about "overused this" and "trite that" (never mind the amount of bandwagoning that the newer writers do), so it's generally assumed that you can either figure things out or have been told how things go in your induction into the Pokémon fanfiction scene. The trick, then, is to do a bit of thinking about the way you see the Pokémon world as a whole and then go from there.

 

[Crystal]

According to all the discussion that had been discussed already, the issue about the overused Pokemon can basically boil down to two parts:

1. The choice of the Pokemon in a trainer's team
This is more towards the personal choice of the author him/herself. Please understand this is merely the choice decision based on the author's like and dislike, there doesn't exist right or wrong in one's decision. The author is the one who design the fic, so obviously he/she will have full control of what Pokemon the trainer in his/her fic will use. You want a Charmander/Pikachu/Eevee/Riolu/**whatever Pokemon the author likes**? That's fine, because it is the choice and right of the author. The reviewers can go agree or disagree about the Pokemon choice of the author, but that should not had influenced the decision that had been made in the author's heart.
Well, as I see many people concern specifically the very first Pokemon a trainer should obtain. The regional starter Pokemons, Pikachu and Eevee are surely a bit overused, but if the author likes it, there is nothing wrong in choosing it.
The main problem is not what Pokemon the author choose, but how they become a member of a trainer's team.

2. The questionable origin of how that Pokemon is obtained
This, is the real problem behind, where this is not only for overused Pokemon, but also for every single Pokemon that is overused, underused, or even the Legendary ones. And I think this discussion had been brought up quite many time in the pass, is that newbie authors give poor reasons to let the trainer in their fic receive a new Pokemon, especially the popular overused ones.
It had already said before, most overused Pokemon are scarce in wild, so they should be difficult to obtain, or even just to see one in the wild. Therefore, tumble such injured rare Pokemon in the wild, found one that is abandoned by another trainer, received from the trainer's parent as his/her 10th birthday present, someone like the nurse in Pokemon Center force you to receive such Pokemon for whatever reason are all not very good reason to randomly give a trainer some rare Pokemon. If a trainer wanted to obtain a rare Pokemon, then try to make it in a manner that he/she went to search in the wild, and obtained it with effort.
So long word in short, as long as one can come up a good plot-relevant and circumstance-allowed reason for the trainer to possess an overused Pokemon that is generally rare, there is no problem.

 

[Caithyra]

Except you should probably have a reason for doing that. Considering the fact that the legal minimum age for getting a trainer's license is canonically ten and considering how the entire culture in that world encourages people to get licenses as soon as possible (with certain canon universes -- more specifically Electric Tale of Pikachu -- carefully explaining how a trainer could do that without actually dropping out of school), deciding to get one later is a lot like refusing to get your driver's license at sixteen when you live in a community where all the cool kids drive. Technically, sure, you can get your license whenever you please, but you should be acknowledging the way the world canonically works in the process with a reasonable explanation. (No, "because older people can handle themselves better in a world of bloodthirsty monsters" is not a reasonable explanation unless your take on the world of Pokémon has decided to be darker and edgier than canon a la Cornova's fics. I honestly would trust some ten-year-olds more than some eighteen-year-olds when it comes to which group has enough common sense to take care of themselves. Meanwhile, the school bit can be explained away if you're willing to do some creative world building. Potential explanations include online schooling, training actually being akin to studying abroad, and Electric Tale's explanation of "it's actually just a leave of absence sanctioned by the trainer's school for a set period of time." You can even say that the culture of the Pokémon world's completely different and get into the value of a trainer's journey -- as in, why everyone goes on one -- in order to come up with a decent explanation. Point is, the age limit of a trainer's license is actually potentially more logical than you're giving it credit for; you just have to have the creativity and willingness to expand on it. As for the point of being a trainer, that could be anything from a spiritual journey/rite of passage to adulthood a la the Native American customs to "it's celebrated cockfighting," which means that either way, there's some basis in reality for why this kind of sport exists.)

Which I guess is your main point (by saying that not all of them have to start out at ten), but the problem is there's actually tons of writers who don't have a ten-year-old protagonist but never bother to adequately bring up why they're not ten. I'd actually say it's more common to see a trainer start out at an age older than ten for no apparent reason than it is to see a trainer start out at ten just because canon says that's the minimum age for a license.

Yeah, canon really went into a huge explanation about how Red and Blue couldn't start at ten! Even Hilda, Hilbert, Bianca and Cheren spent a lot of time going on and on about how late they were starting! And don't forget Berlitz! Or that guy who thought about starting his journey as an adult in one of the Hoenn/Orre (I don't remember which, it was in a library/museum I think) games!

Meanwhile, there's a thriving underground black market for pokémon licenses for preschoolers and little twin girls.

What I'm saying is this: Fanon is not Canon. The prevalent thought that TEN is the age limit is completely fanon (maybe with some back up from the anime, but I think it's been broken with all the younger trainers), and has been around so for so long, that people mistakenly thinks of it as canon, but that doesn't mean that fan fiction authors have to adhere to faulty fanon that's been contradicted by canon.

Instead it seems like the age is individual to how early the person wants to leave and how early their parents (in the case of non-adults) are willing to let them go.

Anyway, back to the topic of OU pokémon.

Conventional starters will always be used more than others, and other pokémon that fits the traditional starter pattern (evolve twice by leveling up) will also be used (dragons, regional birds and so on).

Now, I don't find Dratini, for example, to be a bad starter, mainly because they generally seem to be of a pretty good temperament, and Dragonair seems to have a better temperament than, for example, Charmeleon, who seems to be pretty aggressive in its general manners and looks (generally, I'm talking in a "generally, poodles are smarter and less aggressive than schnauzers/Zonies are more stubborn than mules" kind of way, there will always be individuals that breaks the mold). It also seems to be more common than Charmander, which is a plus.

But here's the thing; it's not about the pokémon species. It could be a Mew, a Bidoof or a Deerling, what makes its position in the story good is that it is a character and not a prop.

I often see the same problem in fiction with huge casts of characters. Basically, whenever a character isn't needed, they go and stand in the metaphorical corner on stand-by until they are needed by the writer. The same often happens with pokémon, as even the most energetic and attention seeking pokémon is suddenly just standing somewhere off to the left until it's called for in the story.

And that's just when a pokémon gets an actual character. I've read a fic in which Shadow Pokémon was so horrible, because they weren't like other pokémon by virtue of being blank-minded battle machines. However, it fell flat when every other pokémon showed no character whatsoever, basically being machines themselves, being completely absent of presence until called into battle.

One thing authors can go into, if they want to go the abused pokémon route, is to emulate the existing pet adoption process from the real world (except the fence thing, because that one's just stupid on so many levels).

Yes, abused pets aren't handed out to random people. They are adopted into vetted families, which means that you could make a sub-plot about your trainer trying to adapt their lifestyle to the lofty ideals of the adoption process when the adoption people are adhering too rigidly to a set of suggestions, or it could be about having to adopt two pokémon because they get anxiety attacks when they are separated.

To summarize: It's not the species. It's the characters. The circumstances surrounding the pokémon is just dressing, what ultimately makes a pokémon work is that it is a character, which doesn't become a prop whenever it's convenient for the writer. An abused Vulpix being randomly handed to a trainer is just as bad as an abused Eevee, because they both need the same thing.

And now I'm just rambling. Please tell me if I'm making no sense.

 

[Mew King]

While I agree with most of the people here, one thing I've been doing recently is that for trainers still in their journey, I go look up who's in the Regional PokeDex and choose guys that aren't all too rare (maybe one or two rare guys). For example, this one girl in my story who's still in the middle of her journey has a Misdreavus. This is a story set in Sinnoh and Misdreavus is actually pretty common in the Eterna Forest at night. She does have a few rare guys but everything has some sort of decent explanation (the only one that doesn't is her Flygon but that's a throwback to a previous work when the same person/different universe had one).

It also doesn't help but to give some common sense with this of what the trainer would catch. I mean like a 10 year old girl that's starting on her journey in Unova probably will only catch a Trubbish if she, for some reason, thinks its cute, very desperate just to catch anything, or, if you want to be funny, misses her intended target and catches a wandering Trubbish (like something similar to how Misty got Psyduck). Meanwhile, the second she sees an Emolga that would be on the same route as the Trubbish she'd probably try and catch it (and thus if you want her to get a Trubbish, that is one way).

For me, I normally write stories about champions saving the world one way or another (That's why the girl that I'm writing about had a Flygon in the original universe) so it doesn't seem too hard for a very skilled trainer to try to catch and tame rare Pokemon. I guess what I'm saying is that the more outright rare Pokemon a trainer has, the stronger a trainer will seem, unless you have a decent reason for the trainer not to be powerful (I have a girl that caught a Hydreigon in a Master Ball that her champion friend gave her because it was attacking her and so she never really uses the Hydreigon except in dire emergencies. In this case, just owning the Hydreigon is a major hindrance and she's afraid of releasing it back into the wild in case it tries to hurt her again).

As for starters, I always considered the Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova starters to be completely fair game for anyone to use as their starter as long as it makes sense (I mean a person from Unova isn't going to have a Charmander as a starter unless Professor Oak visits and gives the trainer one). In addition, such Pokemon as Pikachu and Eevee and other somewhat easy to raise Pokemon, I've always seen as surrogate starters if you didn't want to use the regular ones. In fact, because, in my head, those 17 Pokemon are actually somewhat common. I mean if people are getting them as starter Pokemon so much, then wouldn't the desire to keep breeding them increase? And eventually some get let off into the wild for some reason or another (maybe the breeders purposely let some go in order to meet demand (since you can't always stop the breeding from happening or they release some in order to help offset what they took away) and the local population increases even more. I mean, they're not going to be as common as like Pidgey or Bidoof but seeing them around isn't going to be impossible.

Of course, all of that just keeps in with the laws of things that make sense. As long as you really write the guys well, it should be fine. You're free to use whoever you want, but as the others say, if you're just really going to have them as tools, you might as well just use the common ones from the area. It's more believable that way and it's less explanation on your part of why they're there. If you're going to have some way for the guy to get a rare Pokemon even if it's a cop-out (currently with regards to my Flygon thing up there, the girl enters a PalPark competition with a bunch of other trainers to catch the most Pokemon that was brought in from other regions), we expect either the trainer is a champion of some sort and would be expected to have something rare or the Pokemon has at least some sort of character of some sort.

And that's just my two cents.

 

[JX Valentine]

Yeah, canon really went into a huge explanation about how Red and Blue couldn't start at ten! Even Hilda, Hilbert, Bianca and Cheren spent a lot of time going on and on about how late they were starting! And don't forget Berlitz! Or that guy who thought about starting his journey as an adult in one of the Hoenn/Orre (I don't remember which, it was in a library/museum I think) games!

You know, if you want to have an intelligent discussion to dispute my point, it's very easy to talk about it civilly. :|

It actually is canon, however, but I'll give you credit that it depends completely on the canon you're working with. Anime and Electric Tale, yes. Games are a bit shadier, although it's generally assumed that the aforementioned canon universes got their start somewhere. I also don't see how adults and older characters prove that this is fanon; if anything, it supports the idea that there's a minimum age, if only because you don't really see characters who are younger than ten attempt to start off on their own journey far from home. (Again, in anime and Electric Tale canon, but this may be true for the games as well if you think about it and about how the younger trainers are usually prevalent at schools or close to cities. And yes, the anime was actually extremely consistent about this fact, with younger characters being portrayed as students of Pokémon schools, holding friendships with Pokémon but not actually being trainers, or actually keeping Pokémon as pets instead of participating in actual battles. It even goes on to support the idea that there's a minimum age for more than one seasons with the inclusion of Max.) I never said that all trainers had to start at ten. I said that you had to have a reason for why they started at any other time.

Even then, if you want to consider it fanon, most readers will also assume that it's true, so you'll need an explanation either way in order to make sense to the average reader.

(Also, as a side note, if you really want to get in on the canon versus fanon part, you might as well verify that all of your points are actually canon. Like the fact that it's never explicitly stated in the games how old the main characters of Gen V are or if they're even any older than any other protagonist, so it's difficult to use them as an argument either way. And yes, they never went on and on about their ages.)

 

[Caithyra]

You know, if you want to have an intelligent discussion to dispute my point, it's very easy to talk about it civilly. :|

It actually is canon, however, but I'll give you credit that it depends completely on the canon you're working with. Anime and Electric Tale, yes. Games are a bit shadier, although it's generally assumed that the aforementioned canon universes got their start somewhere. I also don't see how adults and older characters prove that this is fanon; if anything, it supports the idea that there's a minimum age, if only because you don't really see characters who are younger than ten attempt to start off on their own journey far from home. (Again, in anime and Electric Tale canon, but this may be true for the games as well if you think about it and about how the younger trainers are usually prevalent at schools or close to cities.) I never said that all trainers had to start at ten. I said that you had to have a reason for why they started at any other time.

Even then, if you want to consider it fanon, most readers will also assume that it's true, so you'll need an explanation either way in order to make sense to the average reader.

It was meant to be read in a lighthearted "joke" tone (which was why I put in the black market thing at the end of that statement). Unfortunately, the tone didn't translate well to text and I'm sorry about that. Even so, I don't think one needs extra explanations as to why the age limit doesn't exist, since it only seems to reinforce fanon rules. If more authors felt comfortable with writing about trainers starting at ages 16-26-87 without going "and they didn't start at ten because..." people wouldn't find it remarkable, but when they do go "didn't start at ten because..." it reinforces the artificial rule that ten is the official, canon age limit. (By the way, according to my Red booklet, Red and Blue started at eleven. Hilda and company are in their mid-teens, I think the creators said. Berlitz from Adventures was twelve. And the adult guy was an adult.)

I just find it better when authors can feel comfortable with writing canon-compliant fics without having to search out fanon to explain away as well. And for canon contradicted fanon (such as age limits in games/manga/pretty much every source except the anime, except even the anime has sometimes shown trainers that looks and behave younger than Ash) to stop being reinforced as canon. Even the OU pokémon in fics are an entirely fanon creation, and the terminology seems to come more from readers who've read bad fic, and since popular pokémon, by virtue of being popular, figure more in bad fic (and general fic) than others, they conflate OU pokémon = bad.

Erm, hopefully it made sense and again, JX, I'm sorry if my tone came across as hostile.

 

[Agonist]

Strangely enough, at least for Dratini, it's not as uncommon as one would expect, at least going by the games (in particular the Safari Zone.) For example, in Yellow, there is a thirty percent chance of finding either Dratini, or Dragonair. FireRed and LeafGreen have reduced this to a sixteen percent chance, which is still impressively high for such a supposedly rare pokemon, although if one factors catch rates into it, this does lower the actual chance of obtaining one (Dratini has a catch rate of forty-five, out of 255.) That's not including the Game Corner, where it can be obtained for a measly 2100 coins (if I remember correctly), or a place such as the Dragonspiral Tower in the Unova, where the whole Dratini line is the most common thing you find fishing.

To me, this is still a high enough chance of being obtainable that it wouldn't be far fetched for a person to obtain one, so long as there were reasonable circumstances as to how they were able to obtain them, as JX stated above, as well as any other plausible conditions.

Even other rare pseudo-legends are obtainable fairly easily, at least in their basic stages. I know that in fic Champion Games, there was a character who had spent I think, five years searching for a Absol. Well this is probably unfeasible in the terms of a main character, if one really was really devoted towards finding one, they probably could. I guess what I'm trying to say despite being labeled as unoriginal, and overused, pokemon such as Dratini aren't quite as rare as they're made out to be, and can be incorporated into a story with a little bit of creativity. So basically my stance is that if you bother explaining how, and why your character has this pokemon, it doesn't matter what pokemon it actually is.

 

[JX Valentine]

It was meant to be read in a lighthearted "joke" tone (which was why I put in the black market thing at the end of that statement). Unfortunately, the tone didn't translate well to text and I'm sorry about that.

It's cool. Sorry for interpreting your message as an attack.

Even so, I don't think one needs extra explanations as to why the age limit doesn't exist, since it only seems to reinforce fanon rules. If more authors felt comfortable with writing about trainers starting at ages 16-26-87 without going "and they didn't start at ten because..." people wouldn't find it remarkable, but when they do go "didn't start at ten because..." it reinforces the artificial rule that ten is the official, canon age limit.

Just as a note to clarify, the main point I was making in my original post is that it's more common to see writers who do have older characters but do it for entirely silly reasons like "fourteen-year-olds can take care of themselves better than ten-year-olds" and "I want to write a romance, so I can only write about older teens." That's part of the reason why it comes off as nonsensical to a reader besides the fact that, yes, it frequently doesn't make sense at all. Quite frequently, the age limit is bumped up from ten in fanfics where people feel the need to feature older trainers, but that automatically excludes canon ten-year-olds. So to put it simply, I'm not really saying you can't have a trainer who's some other age than ten start off. I'm saying there's got to be a specific reason why you're doing it because, yeah, that's going to impact your story. Considering the fact that protagonists are younger kids no matter which way you cut it, if you're going to have a protagonist be sixteen instead, there's most likely a good reason why, either within their backstory or in the nature of the fanfic. You simply cannot leave those kinds of threads hanging because they'd be important to the characterization of your main cast and the world you're trying to build.

It's like anything else you do in a fic, including using questionable Pokémon, really. Every choice you make within a story has an impact on the characters or plot. So, you should put some thought into what you do and some effort into bringing out that reason through your story in order to show that it's going to add something to what you're doing. In this case, sure, you might have an older trainer, but he's starting out when there might be a lot of experienced younger ones. How will he feel if he's beaten by an eight-year-old (if you choose to assume that there's no legal minimum for a license)? Closer to the point of the thread, sure, you might have a character who starts off on a journey in Unova with a Charmander, but in a region where Charmander literally can't be found, how will that impact his journey? How will he avoid drawing unwanted attention to himself? Will he be forced to prove that Kanto Pokémon are just as good as Unova ones (as Ash had to do when he first met Trip)?

Long story short, absolutely every choice you make in a fic -- ranging from the starter to the age of the trainer to evil teams to whatever you think of -- can be explained in a fic, but because of the challenges each choice presents, they should be explored, considering they may lead to character development, conflict, or countless other facets of a well-built story.

(By the way, according to my Red booklet, Red and Blue started at eleven. Hilda and company are in their mid-teens, I think the creators said. Berlitz from Adventures was twelve. And the adult guy was an adult.)

That doesn't necessarily mean that there's no minimum, though. It's canon that there's such a thing as a trainer's license (or at least a trainer's card); there are most likely rules and regulations concerning who can have one in addition to that. Citing older trainers doesn't disprove that one doesn't exist. Rather, it proves that a trainer can at least apply for a license over the minimum age for the same reason why an eighteen-year-old can apply for a driver's license when the minimum age for one is sixteen. Berlitz and the guy in Orre fall into this category; neither character had much of a desire to become trainers until canon gave them reasons to do so.

Also, as a side note, the Gen V protagonists' ages are never explicitly stated in any canon material pertaining to the games, and the creators themselves simply said that they're meant to be older (as in, meant to seem older), not that they're that much older than the other game protagonists.

And for canon contradicted fanon (such as age limits in games/manga/pretty much every source except the anime, except even the anime has sometimes shown trainers that looks and behave younger than Ash) to stop being reinforced as canon.

Still, the age limit is still canon in a number of universes. This includes one of the manga universes.

And again, anime canon has actually been fairly consistent about who can go on a trainer's journey. Max isn't allowed to become a trainer because he's too young, for example, and all of the other children portrayed are either in school (which includes training camps), are simply keeping Pokémon as friends or pets (and not participating in League-sanctioned battles), or actively going against what's normal and legal for that world.

Even the OU pokémon in fics are an entirely fanon creation, and the terminology seems to come more from readers who've read bad fic, and since popular pokémon, by virtue of being popular, figure more in bad fic (and general fic) than others, they conflate OU pokémon = bad.

To reiterate, even if they're fandom-based terms (note that fandom-based terms =/= fanon), certain concepts under that umbrella such as which Pokémon are overused still carry connotations inside and outside of a fanfic. For readers, it may make your story seem nonsensical and/or trite, no matter how much you want to grab us by the shoulders and shake us and say that it's not canon. The truth is that not all of your readers will come into your story thinking the same way you do, so you have to be careful about popular opinion as well, just to avoid getting called out on for "incorrect information" or "crappy portrayal of a character" or "outlandish premise."

Within a story, as I've said, a writer has to have a reason for doing anything within their fic. If you want to create an older character, that's fine and dandy, but there's certain challenges in doing so that you have to be aware of and certain disadvantages older trainers have over younger ones. If you want to give your character an OU Pokémon, do what you want, but there's certain challenges there that depend on what Pokémon you're talking about and the region the trainer is exploring. You probably shouldn't simply say, "You should ignore this because it's fanon." It would be far better to say, "You should think about this carefully and make intelligent decisions that are established as being intelligent within your story."

So, in short, I get what you're saying, and I'm also accepting your apology. (I'd also like to apologize for assuming you meant to be hostile.) I'm just saying, though, that if you do anything in a fic, you might as well be ready to expand on it so that the story makes sense to a reader.

 

[Caithyra]

I guess I'm a bit tired of having to read 500-1000+ words on the protagonist trying to explain away why they didn't start at ten (which is where my ill advised joke came from). I've seen loooong monologues on the subject, and nine times out of ten, they wont have any impact on the story beyond the first chapter. In those cases a simple "I forgot to fill out the paperwork each year and then failed the motivational essay for the license application, but this year my best friend hounded me relentlessly until I filled it out and sent it" would probably be better. It doesn't press the pause button on the story just before the story begins the same way a soliloquy in a thousand words does.

Same thing with pokémon, really. I don't need a five-thousand word essay on why your character gets the starter they do if it is irrelevant to the story. If your character has parents who are pedigree Eevee breeders, you don't need to apologize to the reader in a million words as to why the character starts with an Eevee. We know why the character has an Eevee, it's a plausible scenario, lets start the story already! Get the plot ball rolling!

 

[MarbleZone]

I thoroughly agree that people might not want to see the same Pokemon in every story, but to be perfectly honest, that doesn't concern me too much. In the end, every author wants to get their stories reviewed, but they're supposed to have fun writing them.
If you've always envisioned creating a character that owns an Umbreon, just go ahead and do it, dammit. Just make that character special, invest in them more than just giving them that Umbreon. Because it's not really like, say, vampire books. Those are absolutely everywhere and, I reckon, they're always about tragic, bloody, impossible romances. Are vampires overdone? Certainly. Is that the main problem? In my opinion, not quite. It's the context that never changes, the tragic romance plot that's inevitably entwined with that type of characters.

Addendum: What I just said makes perfect sense regardless of the fact that I've never read a vampire book in my life to confirm what I just assumed. It just does.

 

[diamondpearl876]

I guess I'm a bit tired of having to read 500-1000+ words on the protagonist trying to explain away why they didn't start at ten (which is where my ill advised joke came from). I've seen loooong monologues on the subject, and nine times out of ten, they wont have any impact on the story beyond the first chapter. In those cases a simple "I forgot to fill out the paperwork each year and then failed the motivational essay for the license application, but this year my best friend hounded me relentlessly until I filled it out and sent it" would probably be better. It doesn't press the pause button on the story just before the story begins the same way a soliloquy in a thousand words does.

That simple explanation raises a lot of questions still, however. When pokemon training is a huge thing, when people eagerly count down the days until they reach age 10 so that they get their first pokemon, when people are pressing for others to get their pokemon, then how can you possibly forget the paperwork each year? Surely, the protagonist's friend would have been on their case in the second year, or even the first. I guess you could argue that the protagonist wasn't really into pokemon and only did it due to years of pressure, but you don't see many characters in fics that aren't too interested in pokemon (or characters that stay disinterested for very long).

I agree, however, that beyond the first chapter, it seems irrelevant. I hardly ever see older trainers interact with younger ones and feel out of place, or perhaps less intelligent, due to having started later.

Same thing with pokémon, really. I don't need a five-thousand word essay on why your character gets the starter they do if it is irrelevant to the story. If your character has parents who are pedigree Eevee breeders, you don't need to apologize to the reader in a million words as to why the character starts with an Eevee. We know why the character has an Eevee, it's a plausible scenario, lets start the story already! Get the plot ball rolling!

A trainer's starter is always considered the most important pokemon, the most memorable, and so on. If there wasn't an explanation (and some sort of elaboration on this explanation) on how the protagonist got their starter, it would make the protagonist look pretty disconnected and uncaring toward their starter, which is not a common thing you see in fics (unless I just don't read enough).