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Overrated Pokemon

Discussion in 'Older Gens' started by Manectrifier, Feb 14, 2013.

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  1. Manectrifier

    Manectrifier AKA Treecko

    Have you ever used a pokemon which was really praised by everyone, and when you gave it a try, it sucked? Maybe you just can't play with it properly, or maybe you think the pokemon itself is completely useless and is used way too much by other players. Post those pokemon here. This can be any tier, so if you think Slowking is overrated in the RU tier, that's completely possible.

    Personally, I think Gyarados is overrated. Maybe it's me, but it always seems to get statused for me, while I used a taunt set (scald's 100% burn rate). Its most common set with 2 attacks has awful coverage with waterfall and bounce/stone edge. Bounce gives your opponent a free turn to do whatever they want and in combination with waterfall is countered hard by rotom-w, while stone edge loses out on coverage against Ferro and Breloom, two often used pokes in OU. Gyarados is also easily revenge killed by a volt switch.

    So, what do you think? I encourage discussion, but please follow the rules.
  2. John Wallrein

    John Wallrein I am the walrein

    I agree with you on Gyarados. I often find when team building that on paper, Gyarados seems like the perfect fit for the team. However whenever I get into the actual match playing situation I never seem to get much good use out of it and end up ditching it from the team.
  3. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    Gyarados may be a bit overrated, but I've found it to be rather good. It's defensive set is a surprisingly good pokemon, even if it relies on Rest Talk for recovery, and substitute sets laugh at status.

    However, I do have quit the list.
    -Lucario. Yeah, sure, +2 Extreme Speed is dangerous, but it's not very easy for the jackal to set up on anything. Also, if something can take one of it's Extreme Speeds, it's done for.
    -Cloyster. Similar too Lucario, it's ice typing and awful HP/Special Defense make it far too difficult to set up, even against physical attackers. It's also rather easy to revenge kill, and is weaker then you'd think. Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Keldeo, and several other pokemon can survive just one attack from it and finish it off with whatever.
    -Metagross. Now, I've found this guy to be rather good. But OU? I don't think so. It's more along the lines of Cofagrigus and Rotom-mow in my head. Good enough to be used reliably in OU, but not good enough to deserve it's spot there. I've found it to be rather inferior to Ferrothorn is all regards besides attacking and trapping, which Scizor does better. Makes a good pokemon if Magnezone or Black Kyurem is a problem, though.
    -Black Kyurem. I made a successful team with it, but that was built completely around smashpass. Outside of that...well, it was just too easy for my opponents to play around. When I faced it, it's too easy for me to play around it.

    Okay, all of these guys can be good, but OU? I don't think they deserve that spot...I hardly even see them anyway.
  4. Manectrifier

    Manectrifier AKA Treecko

    I agree with you on Lucario, Metagross and Kyurem-B, but I do think Cloyster really deserves his spot in OU. I used Lucario once, and it didn't work because there are plenty of pokes in OU that can take a +2 extremespeed and kill, so I quickly ditched it. Metagross is outclassed imo, its stabs aren't too good for an offensive mon and its speed is too low. Jirachi is more threatening and Ferro outclasses it as a defensive mon. It's still good, but not good enough for OU, like you said. I haven't used Kyurem-B but it seems to be killed by any priority attack, so I'll have to agree once more with you on that.
    Cloyster, on the other hand, makes a fine late-game cleaner, I think. It's defense is also very high and I know it's killed by mach punches but still.
    It is not limited to shell smashing either. I once used a support Cloyster with spikes, rapid spin, ice shard to revenge kill dragons, and I think the last move was icicle spear to hit through subs and beat subprotect gliscor. It worked out nicely, no one expects a Cloyster to rapid spin and so they don't send in their spinblocker. It needs some support, though.

    So, I think Cloyster deserves his place in OU, while I agree that Metagross, Kyurem-B and Lucario can drop.

    And about Gyarados: I used the taunt set, so maybe that was the problem, because it was still getting burned by scalds and paralysed by body slams. I still think its coverage is awful. So many counters to it even after a dragon dance or two.
  5. Ultimate Champion

    Ultimate Champion 瞞天過海

    Through a combination of my own experiences observing usage statistics, reading the comments that people make about the Übers metagame in these forums as well as on Smogon, Pokémon Online and GameFAQs, and also looking at Smogon's Ubers Viability Ranking Thread, I'd say that some of the most overrated Pokémon in Übers include Kyogre, Mewtwo, Rayquaza and Arceus-Fighting. While I do agree that Kyogre is one of the best Pokémon, I think its power and overall usefulness is vastly exaggerated by many people, and I do not think that it has anything to justify being used in almost half of all Über teams. While Mewtwo and Rayquaza may be very powerful when judged strictly as stand-alone offensive threats, the difference between them and many other offensive threats in Übers is that Mewtwo and Rayquaza contribute very little to a team's defensive synergy, as they cannot serve as pivots or switch directly into other prominent threats and counter them, and can typically only come in via a double switch, a predicted Roost or Recover, a predicted Earthquake or Grass-type move in Rayquaza's case, or after another Pokémon in one's team has fainted. This is in stark contrast with other powerful offensive threats in Übers such as Palkia, which can easily switch into Kyogre's Water-type moves, or Ho-Oh, which can easily switch into most Calm Mind or support Arceus, and then proceed to threaten the opponent's team from that point forward. In this way, not only do such Pokémon fulfill most teams' need to have numerous Pokémon countered or checked, but they also receive more opportunities to enter the battlefield in the first place and threaten things. And while Mewtwo and Rayquaza may be argued to be more threatening offensively than Pokémon like Palkia and Ho-Oh, due to Mewtwo's blazingly high Speed combined with its access to Calm Mind and Rayquaza's access to Dragon Dance as well as Swords Dance + ExtremeSpeed, which give them sweeping potential as opposed to simple wall-breaking power, such Pokémon's frailty and average defensive typing, as well as the omnipresence of Choice Scarf Pokémon including the very notable Genesect (capable of revenge-killing Calm Mind Mewtwo, +1 Dragon Dance Rayquaza and +2 Swords Dance Rayquaza) all make sweeping with such Pokémon to be oftentimes easier said than done anyway, especially when compared to the absolute best sweeper in the entire game: Arceus-Normal. And finally, Arceus-Fighting is easily one of the worst Arceus Formes in my opinion, contrary to popular beliefs, as aside from being able to hit Dialga, Ferrothorn and Arceus-Normal super effectively (and its Judgment cannot KO Arceus-Normal in one hit anyway, while Arceus-Normal's +2 ExtremeSpeed takes out Arceus-Fighting in two hits), its typing is incredibly poor both offensively and defensively, due to the myriad of Pokémon in the tier that are either immune or resistant to its Judgment (Multiscale Lugia gets a special mention for being 8x resistant to Fighting while at full health, and being able to easily tank boosted Dark Pulses or Ice Beams with Thunder Wave and Roost before blowing Arceus-Fighting away with Whirlwind), as well as the way it can be easily threatened by Ho-Oh and Mewtwo regardless of the number of Calm Minds it has accumulated, which is incredibly detrimental as it means either sacrificing one's own Arceus-Fighting (and a team's Arceus is usually the "figurehead" of a team as well) or switch out and either give the opponent a free Substitute or Calm Mind, or get something heavily damaged on the switch.
  6. jireh the provider

    jireh the provider Video Game Designer

    For me, Terrakion with either Whimsicott or Weavile in doubles (or in the Worst case Scenario, all three in Triple battles).

    Why, remember that Beat Up *(Justfied +6 Rock Slide) + Tailwind tactic is most of the time AUTO DEATH TO YOU. Unless they managed to dodge it.

    For singles OU, Heatran and Ferrothorn are my most hated defensive pokes with ALL dragon pokemon as offensive monsters (why am I afraid of these guys? Blame Rayquaza who tormented my childhood playthrough of Sapphire).

    Ubers is none other than EVERY Arceus form [more specific, the original. I mean, who would dare face a true god with a lesser deity (Which unfortunately is my Mew Expy team's status in terms of BST and appeal. I don't know why but I see Jirachi as my best bet Against Arceus every time I see one.)]?
  7. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    Heatran and Ferrothorn are only overrated by those who want them banned. Heatran is the ultimate sun check, a good stealth rocker, and it's high special attack and great defensive typing makes it an all around good pokemon. It can also wall specs and scarf Latios rather well, as long as you watch out for surf. Granted, I've only ever used defensive Heatran, but it's never disappointed me.

    Ferrothorn is similar. It is a wonderful rain check, stealth rocks and spikes easily, and it laughs at all those Draco Meteor and Outrages that are being thrown around. Despite it's lack of recovery, it's still extremely durable, and it walls a good portion of the metagame, and it's an easy answer to almost all water and eletric types.
  8. jireh the provider

    jireh the provider Video Game Designer

    Look dude. I'm saying them to be banned. Its just I find them hard to defeat NO matter what tactic I use. Keep in mind I'm NOT a competitive battler please. I'm semi competitive.

    I say the same if I'm the one using them. I'm not very good at using their roles. So as good as Heatran and Ferrothorn are, I don't find them as my cup of tea AND I'm not good at using them.
  9. Dragalge

    Dragalge This is more than 20 characters long

    Then become truly competitive?

    Anyway's I find Dragonite overrated in OU, I mean sure it gets Multiscale to help set a Dragon Dance better but from my experience I see it on a lot of teams, mostly Hurricane Dragonite. I only use Dragonite if recommended but I just use Salamence.
  10. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    I never said you wanted them banned...it's because this thread is call overrated pokemon, I guess I got confused.

    I was just saying that they weren't that overrated.
  11. OceanicLanturn

    OceanicLanturn Non non non!


    Umm... I would say Magnezone. I mean, yeah Magnet Pull great! But when you run HP (Fire)/Volt Switch/Thunderbolt/Flash Cannon, you wall dragons, but dragons wall you! Considering Latios carry HP (Fire), Hydreigon has Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Magnezone definitely sucks at walling dragons. I mean, it's main role isn't walling dragons, but rather a steel-killer, right? But oh wait! Silly me! Scizor often run EVs in Sp.Def and carry Superpower! Heatran has Earth Power and Magnezone can't touch it at all except Thunderbolt, which Heatran walls pretty well, lke the Sp.Def variant. The only steel it can take down is Ferrothorn and Forretress, but the latter carries Volt Switch *buzz*. And when you run into a rare Bulldoze-Ferrothorn, yeah.

    I don't see Magnezone much anymore in OU, since most of the steels are changing their EVs and stuff. But I still think Magnezone is rather a disappointment when I use him.

    Other mentions:
    - Kyurem-Black : Eh, it's bleh. I've used it once or twice and it comes off as a disappointment to me :<
    - Metagross: As mentioned by Zachmac. Too 'little' attack. Jirachi (sorta) outclasses it with its higher speed and hax Iron Head.
    - Gardevoir: Occasionally it has ran over by teams, occasionally. But I don't find it a huge threat when I have Wormadam that completely walls it (yes this is for NU).
    - Jolteon: A bit too frail for my taste. It's still pretty speedy and nice, though I find it sorta overrated when Ferrothorn can wall non HP Fire variants and Grounds can wall non Hp Ice variants.
  12. jireh the provider

    jireh the provider Video Game Designer

    I hope you are not saying to me that I should not be playing the Metagame of Pokemon because I'm a semi competitive player who does not use a pokemon team that has those popular tactics like weather benefit tactics, Hyper offense, and the like, because it somehow hurts me in a mildly insulting way.

    Magnezone for me, though it does a good job, I'd say it is one of the easiest to deal in the Entire OU tier throughout experience. True that Jirachi gets troubled by one, but my Jirachi (the pokemon that I really know inside out in the Metagame + my all time favorite pokemon) can single handedly fight it head on if the need arises.

    For Gardevoir, I think you want to speak to my Skill Link Cinccino before she got promoted to RU. I used her to take on the elegant lady with ease excluding the rare Scarf variant.

    I agree with Jolteon. So odd it has gotten so high in the tier. Most of the time, I see Jolteon Haning out with Umbreon at UU.

    The other I may see odd to be called overrated is Manaphy in Ubers. I mean sure I enjoy using him against Kyogre and potentially kOing him back. But why is he ubers anyway? I see Manaphy as more on OU. That is even before we got the banning of swift swim + drizzle of Kingdra and Politoed in 5th gen.
  13. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    Scizor almost always runs choice band, and Magnezone should usually outspeed.
    Heatran...who the heck uses Magenzone to handle Heatran?
    Bulldoze Ferrothorn? Who uses that?
    Skarmory is also handled rather well, thanks to STAB eletric and the negative priority of Whirlwind.

    And you don't have to use substitute/chargebeam. Choice Scarf/Specs handle Volt Switch Forretress rather well. And, even then, Forretress still means a free sub, since volt switch does pathetic damage.
  14. Rebel562

    Rebel562 Odd Teambuilder

    I've used Magnezone once competitively before, and it was a beast. I don't know if I just got lucky, but I never encountered a single Steel-type carrying a set that could touch my Magnezone.

    As for overrated, Imma go with Lucario. I used it on the same team as that Magnezone, and I must say, I think it's much too frail to be in OU. The only thing that it can do that can't be done better by many others is Extremespeed. Other than that, Cobalion does the typing better, many others can run its sets better due to better stats, and it can be walled completely by certain common Pokemon.
  15. Lion Demon

    Lion Demon Fairy Type Champion

    Tyranitar. Honestly, Terrakion & Conkeldeurr's are all over the place & the only real benefit I ever got from Tyranitar was to set up sandstorm...
  16. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    Sandstorm is the main reason people use Tyranitar...

    The reason it manages to keep it's competition with the hippo is because pursuit manages to trap certain pokemon and it's much more offensive in nature. It's also got a nice special defense in a sandstorm.
  17. AnakBaé

    AnakBaé Well-Known Member

    Gyarados? i think Gyara is underrated lol

    Anyway, hmmmmm overated, hard choice.
    I would say Volcarona because its one of the "Gold crown" among sun teams, yet its fairly easy to handle even after a quiver dance. Heatran wall Volcs (who lacks HP ground) all day long, even it does have Hp ground, common DD/banded D-nite can handle it easily, and also don't forget scarf Terrak. Volc also requires a **** ton amount of supports to stay alive and to keep the threats out of the way.

    Aaaaand what else? The rest probably Metagross, Ferrothorn (lol), and Hydreigon.
  18. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    I've used all three before, and Ferrothorn and Hydreigon aren't all that bad.

    Ferrothorn is amazing at getting up entry hazards, can wall tons of common OU pokemon, and is an easy solution to rain teams.

    Hydreigon is similar to Latios. However, it has Focus Blast, Superpower, Fire Blast, and a resistance to Pursuit, so it can handle some of Latios's more common enemies with more ease. It's just a bit slower, but it's arguably just as good at Draco Meteor spam as Latios is.
  19. jireh the provider

    jireh the provider Video Game Designer

    I like the way you share my problems with Ferrothorn.

    but if there is one thing I hate facing a lot are`Ferrothorn AND Foretress together on a team, though Scizor sometimes replaces either one of the first two. At rare occasions, all three on the team.

    Its like i know they are at rainy teams 80% of the time. But here s what I don't ever understand.

    WHY WOULD THEY CARRY all three of them if they have the fire typing issues? Look! All three of them hate Volcarona, Infernape, Ninetales, and Heatran. That is something i'll never understand. ESPECIALLY IF IT IS FERROTHORN AND FORETRESS on the same team. I see those two as overrated ONLY and ONLY IF they are together.

    Anyways, Kyogre will always be that one pokemon that is highly overrated in Ubers along with Arceus. ON EVERY team built in ubers. I rarely defeat those two with my Mew Expy team.

    Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Manaphy, Shaymin (sky), Victini; from experience, they CAN defeat those two Uber champs. But I really want to know which of my members can take those overrated guys HEAD ON?
  20. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    I guess that you must not be fighting very skilled players. After all, you aren't fully competitive, and laddering probably isn't your top priority.

    I hardly ever fight Ferrothorn/Forretress combos. It's redundant. Forretress is better off swapped for a Tentacruel, since that has excellent synergy, and all three hazards and rapid spin are split between Ferrothorn/Tentacruel. Forretress is only good for hazard support anyway, so if you swap it for Tentacruel, you won't really be missing out on anything.

    If your team is well prepared for sun teams, though, having both Ferrothorn/Forretress and Scizor on the same team isn't that dumb. It's not much different then carrying Jirachi and Jolteon on the same team. Sure, they share common weakness that neither can handle, but if you've got a Hydreigon or something, that problem is solved. x2 and x4 resistances aren't much different from a competitive point of view. Either way, you're doomed if you end up against either of them. Refusing to use the two together because of their weakness is like making a team where no two pokemon share a common weakness.
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