Paper Mario Discussion Thread (Origami King and Others)

[Auraninja]

I realize I am probably biased but really? The Koopalings have never appeared in a Paper Mario game so I mean........

I get that people don't like the new Paper Mario approach, but the "main series baddies" argument is flimsy at best.

At least the Koopalings were given different ways of fighting.

People don't have to like the game, but I wish people would complain about the things that made the first two PM games great (as opposed to miscellaneous details).

 

[KillerDraco]

Compared to bosses such as a giant Goomba, a giant Pokey, or a literal pile of snow, the Koopaling are leaps and bounds better.

I mean, there's still more work that could've been done in Color Splash that was an issue in Sticker Star (return to a more fleshed out world, more unique character designs), but it at least fixed some of the more significant issues, such as the lack of incentive to battle, and the utter lack of any real story elements.

 

[Nothingjustgo.]

I realize I am probably biased but really? The Koopalings have never appeared in a Paper Mario game so I mean........

And no Paper Jam doesn't count.

I can totally understand the complaints about lack of partners (tho I actually like Huey) and generic characters like 723849748937284973294 Toads with different colors but the Koopalings are not the issue here.

Honestly I do see where he's coming from. While the Koopalings are new to the paper mario series, they have kinda been in a bunch of mario games before so they get kind of old. Furthermore, it does get rid of the boss variety TTYD had such as the likes of Hooktail, Doopliss, Cortez, etc.

and the utter lack of any real story elements

Eh, tbh. The story is still pretty barren in Colour Splash so I care about it just as much as Sticker Star.

 

[Kirby]

Honestly I do see where he's coming from. While the Koopalings are new to the paper mario series, they have kinda been in a bunch of mario games before so they get kind of old.

They were gone for roughly 14 years. Their final appearance in the 1990s was in Hotel Mario which released in 1994 (if you even want to count that as a real game), they were gone until Superstar Saga in 2003 (showing up as just filler bosses at the very end), and then reappeared in 2009 and have stayed around regularly since. That's a 15 year gap between 1994 and 2009 where they only showed up once, so 14 years total where they didn't show up at all. They've been in around 16 games (two of which were just... well they're Hotel Mario and Mario is Missing lol, one is a NSMBU rehash, the Luigi version). If you look at the bigger picture of how many Mario games there are and then look at how many the Koopalings have appeared in, they really haven't shown up much at all.

I'm not trying to sound like an *** but the Koopalings actually had effort put into them this time around. Their boss fights are all unique and their dialogue, while limited, is enough to tell you that each one is different. At this point, anyone saying they're all the same because they're all the same species might as well say that Mario, Luigi, Wario, Waluigi, Peach, Daisy and Rosalina are all the same because they're human.

I'm totally fine with older, established characters showing up for the first time ever in an AU and getting much needed development. I'd agree with the "they're getting old" accusation if their battles were all the same and they had 0 effort put into them.

I guess tl;dr, what I'm trying to say is that this game has plenty of faults and lots of room for improvement but the Koopalings are not the issue here. I personally would love to see Paper Mario go back to its roots by bringing back battles that are more TTYD style, along with new partner characters and unique bosses and whatnot. But Nintendo seems to have made it clear that as of now, that's not happening.

 

[Auraninja]

I'm glad we do get games that individualize the Koopalings. As fun as Super Mario World was, only Ludwig had a unique battle style.

The Koopalings were used creatively from what I've seen from the footage of Color Splash (especially Roy).

It seems odd to me that they are criticized when you can criticize the lack of a partner system, lack of side quests, or even the lack of Toad diversity.

 

[Nothingjustgo.]

They were gone for roughly 17 years. Their final appearance in the 1990s was in Hotel Mario which released in 1994 (if you even want to count that as a real game), they were gone until Superstar Saga in 2003 (showing up as just filler bosses at the very end), and then reappeared in 2012 and have stayed around regularly since. That's an 18 year gap between 1994 and 2012 where they only showed up once, so 17 years total where they didn't show up at all. They've been in around 16 games (two of which were just... well they're Hotel Mario and Mario is Missing lol, one is a NSMBU rehash, the Luigi version). If you look at the bigger picture of how many Mario games there are and then look at how many the Koopalings have appeared in, they really haven't shown up much at all.

I'm not trying to sound like an *** but the Koopalings actually had effort put into them this time around. Their boss fights are all unique and their dialogue, while limited, is enough to tell you that each one is different. At this point, anyone saying they're all the same because they're all the same species might as well say that Mario, Luigi, Wario, Waluigi, Peach, Daisy and Rosalina are all the same because they're human.

I'm totally fine with older, established characters showing up for the first time ever in an AU and getting much needed development. I'd agree with the "they're getting old" accusation if their battles were all the same and they had 0 effort put into them.

I guess tl;dr, what I'm trying to say is that this game has plenty of faults and lots of room for improvement but the Koopalings are not the issue here. I personally would love to see Paper Mario go back to its roots by bringing back battles that are more TTYD style, along with new partner characters and unique bosses and whatnot. But Nintendo seems to have made it clear that as of now, that's not happening.

Fair enough, but FYI, the Koopalings resurfaced in 2009 .

 

[Kirby]

Fair enough, but FYI, the Koopalings resurfaced in 2009 .

Welp I guess that's what I get for writing a post after working graveyard and not sleeping before my shift lol (also for some reason I always jump to 2012 as their true reappearance because that's when Miyamoto retconned their biological relationship to Bowser). That's still 14 years of absence and everything else is correct lol. I'll go fix it though, thanks for pointing that out.

Anyways for the sake of being on topic, I'm probably not going to buy this game (at least at full price). I'd really just love something more akin to TTYD. For now I'll just watch my friend stream it.

 

[R_N]

I beat this today
Much better than I expected it to be.

Honestly, with just a few tweaks this could have easily been what people wanted (or mostly wanted) out of a TTYD sequel. The level design is nice, the dialog is on point, there's a lot of good/funny/interesting moments (more the first 2 than the latter). Battles mean something for the most part. They upped the damage values on enemies so battles are a little more close (or at least they are with bosses).
Just...like....
1. remove the card system entirely. it swings wildly between completely pointless (because i have a l l the money and almost maximum cards for every situation) and aggravating (because woops i wasn't psychic and i really needed about 30 of these types of cards, not 10). You could make them special attacks you still fuel by paint and lose nothing here.
2. have more unique character designs. This is a notable step up from Sticker Star, dont get me wrong, but the extra toad outfits were sparse and usually minimal. Rescue Squaddies were appreciated. But I should not have been so excited to see a Toad in a Pirate Hat with a cutlass and nothing else differentiating it. Come on, at least use Toadsworth. At least make girl toads????
3. Just a little more plot backbone. There's plot here! Several parts of the game are continuous arcs that you could easily see fall into chapters with a bit more connective tissue/context to why you're there. The koopalings even have nice personalities and distinct boss fights, but with a few exceptions they don't really interact beyond their one level.

also, just going to say: the level set up is the future of this series. We still kind of go to the same wheelhouses, but they're more distinct from each other and with future refinement we can probably get even more variety without the constant backtracking this series loves (AND IS SOMEHOW STILL HERE IN PLACES). Also lets them do a little more with each level since it doesn't necessarily need to connect

 

[Bguy7]

Just remembered I made a dedicated Paper Mario thread way back before Color Splash, and figured I should revive it. I'll just re-post what I said in the Switch thread.

I'm so happy to have a new Paper Mario game announced, and it looks so good to boot! From what I can tell at first glance, it looks like this game is going to have a good story and more open areas than Sticker Star and Color Splash. Those two things are really all I ask for. It looks like the combat will be the same as Stick Star/Color Splash, but I'm okay with that as long as we get a better story and better areas. I actually quite enjoyed Color Splash, myself. And, of course, the best part, the opening and ending scenes show that the wacky and hilarious Paper Mario writing is still there. Absolutely cannot wait for this to come out.

 

[R_N]

The combat is definitely not the same as Color Splash.

Aside fro mthe obvious wheel set up, the battle menu doesnt have cards/stickers or whatever. You just have normal actions (shown here, a jump and a hammer) and a tab for items (with a toad recommending use of an Ice Flower).


Which is good! There's another screenshot that has a companion, the explorer toad we see briefly in the trailer, in battle with you. So while it wasn't showcased it's possible the partner system is back in some fashion. I assume the bob-omb is one as well as the other "enemies" on Mario's side in the box art.

 

[shoz999]

Oh my god. This looks so good. I like how Bowser is a companion here but he isn't his big mean self, he's been origami-fied into this small piece of paper lol. Even if the combat doesn't turn out great, what I love about Color Splash was it's fun and charming level design and what's great here is that not only are a bunch of non-Toad NPCs are returning, it looks like Mario is working with Bowser's minions to defeat this "Origami King". So cool.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

It doesn't really look like combat uses any companions, though.

But it uses the damn battle item mechanic.

 

[Bguy7]

Watching the trailer again, what has me most interested is that you seem to team up with Bowser's army for this game. Whether it be a generic Bob-omb, a bunch of Goombas, Kamek, Boweser Jr., or even Bowser himself, it looks like you'll have various travel companions, even if they're not quite traditional partners. This also sounds like it could make for a very interesting story. And perhaps the best part, this means we won't just be fighting Bowser again, like we did in Sticker Star and Color Splash. Very excited.

Aside fro mthe obvious wheel set up, the battle menu doesnt have cards/stickers or whatever. You just have normal actions (shown here, a jump and a hammer) and a tab for items (with a toad recommending use of an Ice Flower).

Are you sure it's not the same? The wheel is definitely new, but as far as attacks go, it just looks like Mario is picking a jump oragami to attack (as opposed to a jump sticker or card). Seems the same to me.

 

[Pokemon Power]

Just remembered I made a dedicated Paper Mario thread way back before Color Splash, and figured I should revive it. I'll just re-post what I said in the Switch thread.

I'm so happy to have a new Paper Mario game announced, and it looks so good to boot! From what I can tell at first glance, it looks like this game is going to have a good story and more open areas than Sticker Star and Color Splash. Those two things are really all I ask for. It looks like the combat will be the same as Stick Star/Color Splash, but I'm okay with that as long as we get a better story and better areas. I actually quite enjoyed Color Splash, myself. And, of course, the best part, the opening and ending scenes show that the wacky and hilarious Paper Mario writing is still there. Absolutely cannot wait for this to come out.

Are you sure? I thought they had a rule that stated that if you re-opened a thread that hasn't had a new comment in over two months, it would get locked up.

 

[R_N]

Watching the trailer again, what has me most interested is that you seem to team up with Bowser's army for this game. Whether it be a generic Bob-omb, a bunch of Goombas, Kamek, Boweser Jr., or even Bowser himself, it looks like you'll have various travel companions, even if they're not quite traditional partners. This also sounds like it could make for a very interesting story. And perhaps the best part, this means we won't just be fighting Bowser again, like we did in Sticker Star and Color Splash. Very excited.



Are you sure it's not the same? The wheel is definitely new, but as far as attacks go, it just looks like Mario is picking a jump oragami to attack (as opposed to a jump sticker or card). Seems the same to me.

It does not appear to be an origami. There's been no indication these are limited supply or anything of it. Assumedly you'll still be able to chain attacks later on.

It's possible we're all wrong but nothing on the UI we've seen implies it

 

[shoz999]

Are you sure? I thought they had a rule that stated that if you re-opened a thread that hasn't had a new comment in over two months, it would get locked up.

Honestly, I don't think the mods really care about this rule unless they feel like they have to because they've broken this rule themselves from time to time.

EDIT: Another note, I just realized they brought back the audience feature which hasn't been seen since Super Paper Mario. It's not like an audience for a stage like I'd hope it to be as their shown on bleachers this time around, but I'm still happy they brought it back. That was one of the little details that made Paper Mario such a charming series.

 

[Bguy7]

It does not appear to be an origami. There's been no indication these are limited supply or anything of it. Assumedly you'll still be able to chain attacks later on.

It's possible we're all wrong but nothing on the UI we've seen implies it

Maybe I'm wrong, but staring at the shoe and hammer icon, and it looks like they have a 3D, oragami-like structure to me, especially the shoes. Maybe it's just paper-craft, but it looks more like oragmi to me. And then there's the shot in the trailer that shows Mario using "Shiny Boots," which sounds a lot like what we would have gotten from a sticker/card in previous games. Perhaps the lack of a supply indicator simply means that the regular jump and hammer attacks are unlimited, while everything else is closer to the sticker/card system?

Anyways, I hope you're right, I just think we have to assume this will be the same battle system until definitively proven otherwise.

 

[shoz999]

Speaking of companions, I think it'll be handle like the card system but without the cards. You know how cards can summon no-name enemies who act as "companions". I think it will be like that where you can recruit & replenish "your minions" to fight for you instead of actual legitimate companions. I hope legitimate companions do return, the conversation with the Bo-omb gives me some hope and I'm liking the idea of origami Bowser joining your adventures as an companion in that hilariously weaker form.

Also I've already said this before, but who else is happy to see the audience feature making it's return since Super Paper Mario?

 

[Bguy7]

Okay, here's something relatively interesting I was just contemplating. Origami King is the first title of a Paper Mario game to be directly related to the game's story since Thousand-Year Door. Obviously the Super in Super Paper Mario had no impact on story, while Sticker Star and Color Splash were just generic names that fit with the gimmick of the games, while Origami King (presumably) refers to the game's villain. Don't know if that means much, but it could be a promising sign in regards to the game's story.

Of course, the title isn't everything, seeing as Super Paper Mario, arguably the worst of the titles, has my favorite story across Paper Mario. Still, an interesting thought.

 

[KillerDraco]

Super Paper Mario, arguably the worst of the titles

I hope you're saying that ironically, given Sticker Star exists.

Super Paper Mario isn't bad for what it was, and it's worlds better than Sticker Star or Color Splash. Most people just had an initially negative reaction because "Muh turn based combat". Sure, the combat is pretty simple and most encounters can be cheesed (and Bowser + Carrie is a match made in heaven), but it had great story, characters, and worldbuilding.