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Paul: Emotionless drone or a deluxe rival?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Grey Wind, May 13, 2012.

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  1. LilyTwo

    LilyTwo Well-Known Member

    You're grasping at straws with me here. Ash had given Paul no proof of his skill.

    And as I've already said, Paul's motivation for hating his brother was really shallow and stupid.


    Yeah, I saw how much Paul enjoyed destroying Ash and treating him like a punching bag.

    Again, i say that is out of character. Paul is a jerk who only cares about being the best, and he cares nothing for willpower, friendship and empathy to people and Pokemon. He had pegged Ash and Chimchar as weak, and he's too much of a cold, unfeeling monster to be swayed by shows of friendship and willpower.

    Oh, and it wasn't won by Infernape's willpower. It was won because Paul allowed Ash to winby stopping the ref. In other words, even in defeat, Paul wins. Damn Gary Stu.


    Really? I've never seen him display respect towards anyone except Cynthia and Brandon, and that was only because they were stronger than he was. He sure showed a LOT of respect to his brother, Maylene and Nurse Joy, didn't he?

    I don't think he'll think about anyting. He ust walked away as cold-hearted as ever, with little to no hint that he'll ever change.
     
  2. LilyTwo

    LilyTwo Well-Known Member

    Yes he is.
     
  3. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    He didn't hate his brother, he struggled to accept while he gave up completely and viewed it as a sign of weakness, he vowed to never do the same thing and had mixed emotions about his brother.

    He was somewhat taken aback when he found Ash had defeated Reggie, and was suprised also when he found out about him defeating Brandon. He on more than one occasion remarked about Pikachu's strength, he told Ash in the Raichu episode the only way he would win would be to evolve it, and Ash didn't and still won, this suprised him as well. He was also taken aback about Ash and Infernape's blaze, something which he seemed to be extremely curious about - you'll remember that he helped Ash try and stop Monferno's rampage shortly before it's evolution. He may not have shown it all the time but he certainly had some respect towards Ash.

    But that's the point, it was Ash and Chimchar that did sway him however slight, after abandoning Chimchar he deemed it weak and when it joined forces with Ash he disdained them both, but suddenly Ash was using it well, it did the best against him in the battle at Lake Acuity, even evolving. Despite Electabuzz overcoming it this would of been a suprise, later on when he found out about Ash using it's Blaze he was even more curious, and when they finally got to the league and he was defeated he was amazed, because despite his constant training and hardness it got up and defeated Electivire on something he deemed pathetic - Ash's cheering and nice attitude towards his Pokemon, you even see him whisper "Good job." to his Electivire as it's recalled something up until this point was never done by him, doesn't this say a lot? I don't expect him to have changed into some all singing all dancing character, that isn't Paul but this would of done something to change him, a little or a lot. It had an impact.

    It was won by Infernape, it was on the ground and Paul taunted it - it got up and battled Electivire, Paul's strongest Pokemon and won.

    What about Proffessor Rowan, Roark? and he never was openly disrespectful to Reggie.

    This is your flaw not Paul's. You hate him so much you can't even see any change about him, when he changes slightly towards a better side you deem it the writers bringing him out of his character, it's not a flaw in him, or the writers it's you. However much you may dislike him try and look at it from a different perspective, you might just learn something and change your view, if only a little.
     
  4. 32er

    32er TM87? I got TM32 :]

    I prefer Gary, but Paul is alright I guess... I just never liked him much cause of how he treated his Pokemon. :|
     
  5. I am Lu

    I am Lu Well-Known Member

    Except, Paul didn't hate Reggie. They had difficulty connecting; most siblings do. It probably doesn't help that there's a 7+ age difference between (Paul is a year older than Ash, making him 11, and Reggie must be at least 18 since the legal driving age in Japan is 18 and he owns a car). As DMerle said, he simply couldn't understand and accept why Reggie gave up.


    It seems no matter what, you're just going to say any growth Paul shows is automatically OOC. Oh, Paul starts to develop respect for Ash? OOC. Oh, he learns to appreciate his Pokemon more? Definitely OOC. Paul isn't a sore loser after his failure in the Sinnoh League? OOC~

    You're mislabeling any moment Paul shows maturation as a character as OOCness. No matter what, this is an uphill battle for us. I mean, your sig pretty much indicates that. It's ironic, also, how you apparently despise Paul for being so cold, but you throw a fit and say he's OOC whenever he does something, God-forbid, mildly nice.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  6. LilyTwo

    LilyTwo Well-Known Member

    Whatever. My mind about Paul was made up when he abused and abandoned Chimchar. I think hedoes not deserve to be forgiven for that.
    And if the wrters wante to show that Paul has changed, they did a terrible job at it. Personally, I saw nothing resembling character growth until that forced last-minute "change" near the Sinnoh League.
     
  7. cg19293

    cg19293 Well-Known Member

    i like both for different reasons. I thought that Paul's story was well developed, while although we didn't see enough of Gary, the backstory of him and Ash was good
     
  8. Zino

    Zino Ice Cream Truck

    I don't understand why people hate Paul for abandoning his Pokemon or for the way he treated them. Sure he was strict and if the Pokemon was weak it was bye-bye time, but it's not like I've never boxed away weaker Pokemon in the games. Well, for me, Paul is deffo a big yay, he was an awesome character and my favorite from the entire show. It was really nice to have a character who really wasn't nice. Pokemon is kinda too full of nice people anyway.

    And it was nice to have a rival who really pushed Ash's buttons again. So yeah, he's something else!
     
  9. Caseydia

    Caseydia Ace Trainer

    I'm surprise with the comments in here. I was hearing things like" Paul is a Sinnoh God" ,"Paul is the best thing that happen to Pokemon", and that "Trip should die and Paul should come back" and stuff. yet I come in here and there's this stuff. I love it!:D
     
  10. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    Regular services commence again tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  11. Alfred the Second

    Alfred the Second Dracoflare


    You absolutely didn't understand Paul's character at all. He is not a bully.

    First.
    Reggie was like Ash, he believed in treating Pokemon with love and affection and use it as power. However when Paul saw Reggie losing to Brandon, he changed his opinions. He started searching for 'strong Pokemon' much like how competitive battlers use Perfect IV Pokemon. While he treated Pokemon that weren't strong poorly, he never 'tortured' them with a stick or something(I read it in a fanfiction lol). Chimchar was the only Pokemon to be tortured, to be used against a type disadvantage and all only so that he could activate blaze.

    As for Paul's treatment of his other Pokemon, he used them if they were strong, or throw them away if they were useless.

    The reason he didn't like Ash was because Ash followed the same path Reggie did, albeit more successful. He thought looking after Pokemon with love is a weakness. Which is why he thought Ash was 'worthless'.

    I would want you to notice that in the battle with Brandon, Paul let his emotion control him and lost terribly to Brandon. But he then recuperated the next ten days, and when he faced Ash he battled like an emotion-less toy.

    After the full-battle they met when Monferno evolved. In the break from the first full battle to the sinnoh league Paul 'might' have considered Ash's line of thinking. Do note that he didn't win a league till then so he expects himself to have a flaw.

    After losing to Ash in the league he started considering Ash as worthy, but the change didn't came all of a sudden, it was a gradual change which wasn't properly depicted by the writers and involved Chimchar's evolving twice.

    Paul never said he would change his battle style, but he might have considered using some emotion while raising Pokemon and test it by battling Brandon.

    Paul although indifferent at first started respecting Ash in the end, and Ash respected Paul's ways too.


    Note in DP 100: When Paul questioned his training methods and later when he questioned why he entered the Wallace cup, Ash didn't had an answer..do remember that.


    Paul is my favorite character, the writers couldn't properly show the way his attitude towards Ash changed but remember this, he is not a jerk who beats his Pokemon with a stick(lol that fan-fiction again)




    Also Paul is very respectful towards his elders, he bows to the referee after a match. Just watch him from DP001 again.

    And why he was rude towards Maylene? He simply spoke out the truth. Maylene was being pathetic that time. She was facing her own emotional problems.

    If you were to go to a big university and get a stupid professor to teach you, you would definitely comment on him right?

    The only difference with Ash and him was Ash's friends bothered to ask what her problem was and solved it.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  12. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    ^ spot on buddy.
     
  13. EspNeon

    EspNeon Badge Collector

    For me, Paul was the best rival in the show. He was more realistic because he was honest, opinionated and showed the potential for change. When he slated Maylene's pokemon, he was brutal but honest about it. That for me makes him a better rival considering as he isn't pretentious. The climax of the series also benefited him aswell. When Gary decided to change his "career path" he became more friendly and a bit more idyllic; becoming some what of a distant character to be brought back on occasion and this caused him to lose credibility in my eyes. His "banter" with Ash and his competitive attitude just seemed to vanish, consequently making his role in the first series pointless.

    Paul coming to respect Ash was better as it left him open to return but it didn't seemed like a rushed ending. It also culminates the micro plot of Paul's journey. It ended his soul searching in a respect. Paul was set to find strong Pokemon and travelled across multiple regions and upon losing to Ash it completed his journey to understand how to raise his Pokemon. Not to mention it also motivated Ash further to train his team better and think of new tactics as he intentionally recycled his team from the Lake Acuity match for the league match.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  14. LilyTwo

    LilyTwo Well-Known Member

    Say whatever you will. The way Paul treated Ash, Chimchar and Maylene confirmed to me that he is an horrible jerk with no chance of redemption.

    That's EXACTLY the reason why Paul is an abuser and a bully.

    And yet you say he isn't a jerk or a bully?


    It wasn't shown, and his behaviour gave me no indication that he ever did. And while he would expect himself to have flaws, he's the kind of person who only considers the technical, strategical side of things. As for his attitude towards Pokemon, Paul thinks he's got it all right.

    You know, I think *that* is totally in-character of Paul.

    And that makes it alright? Newsflash: it doesn't. It only means that Paul is, again, a jerk and a bully. He had only done it in order to hurt the girl.

    I have a certain limit after which I consider a character to be irredeemable in my eyes. Paul crossed it, and that half-assed "change" the writers gave him at the last minute won't change my opinion.
     
  15. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    Lilytwo,

    Paul was never made to be this character that everyone was gonna fan-girl over, he was a whole new idea for a rival and a pokemon character in general up until this point we hadn't seen anyone treat pokemon this way. He was shown to be arrogant, rude, and sometimes cruel although he never did anything simply out of spite, he had reasons for everything he did. I fail to see why you even bother to keep posting as it's obvious your never going to change your mind about him, and i don't mean to be rude but it's just stupid to me that they added such a great and complex character which had never been seen before on Pokemon and then people will just hate on him because he isn't constantly showering his pokemon in love and affection.
     
  16. sereb devil

    sereb devil Banned

    Paul was the most unrealistic worst rival the show ever had, his personality and him being so much of a jerkass has brought the pokemon anime series down big time because of him. I'm glad he is gone for good he will never be as good as Gary and Trip.
     
  17. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    Are you actually serious? During his entire time in DP he lost three battles, once against the Unova champion, one against someone with three legendaries and the head of the frontier brains, and one against Ash in the league.. That's ridiculous. I'm not a Trip hater by any stretch of the imagination, but Paul would destroyyy him.
     
  18. I am Lu

    I am Lu Well-Known Member

    I think that's exactly why I enjoy Paul's character so much. His strict methods of training make for a dynamic rivalry with Ash. He'd be terribly bland if he lost the edgier aspect of his personality.
     
  19. Blessed

    Blessed Well-Known Member

    I agree with Lilly & Sereb. The Tag Team arc proved what a shallow, cold hearted person he was And other events after that.
     
  20. I am Lu

    I am Lu Well-Known Member

    I can agree that Paul can be both shallow and cold-hearted. That doesn't make him a bad character though, it just makes him unlikable. It's his unlikability that makes him such a fantastic character, though. A good character is someone whom you either love or despise; it doesn't matter as long as her or she makes you feel something. The worst kind of character is the kind you're indifferent to.

    Paul wasn't meant to be a character everyone adores, however, his unlikability has the opposite effect on some fans. They're drawn to him, because he's not the generic nice guy. He's different, and different is good in a series that can get pretty bland with its characters.
     
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