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Paul: Emotionless drone or a deluxe rival?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Grey Wind, May 13, 2012.

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  1. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    1. BS. A good coach works himself just as hard as he does the players he's coaching, a good coach cares for his players no matter how strict he is, and a good coach brings out a player's strength for that player's sake. Paul expected all his Pokemon to do all kinds of work that he himself wouldn't do, he saw them as disposable tools, not as players that he cared about, and he only cared about bringing out their strength to benefit himself.

    2. Didn't you once call Iris a bully? And yet you're saying Paul isn't? Your credibility = SHOT.

    Exactly. The one time he showed much in the way of emotion was his epic angry breakdown as he was losing to Brandon. And as we saw in his subsequent two-episode full battle with Ash, this didn't change him one ounce; he was still a callous jerk who looked down on others. He had one brief appearance afterward, and then it was the Sinnoh League. He lost to Ash and Infernape (the Pokemon that used to be HIS), and his dream of becoming the champion went up in smoke. By all logic, he should have reacted just as violently upset as he did in the Brandon battle, as we never saw him mature past that kind of attitude. And yet....nothing. WTF!? That was just bad writing, the kind that marked Paul's entire character.

    How is a generic mean guy any better than a generic nice guy? Because generic is what Paul was. We've had lots of jerks in the past: Gary, Drew, Harley, several one-offs, etc. and they all were actually entertaining in their jerkishness. Even Suwama, Tepig's trainer and a grade-A scumbag, was entertaining. Paul was not. He was a bland, taken-super-seriously-all-the-damn-time, emotionless bore, and he had the same generic mean attitude and did the same generic mean things every time he appeared.

    And yet everyone goes fan-girl over him regardless, funny that.

    ......Are you effing kidding me?

    A whole new idea for a rival? What about THIS GUY?

    We never saw anyone treat Pokemon this way? What about THIS GUY?

    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Too funny!
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  2. sereb devil

    sereb devil Banned

    Trip can kick Paul *** in battle with his cool *** Unova pokemon team. You mean Cynthia he didn't win against her at all and he lost that battle very fast,Paul was nothing more but a joke?
     
  3. Pokemaniac24

    Pokemaniac24 Banned

    I get you don't like Paul but I really do think you have to respect him as a strong trainer. You may not agree with his methods but he is a strong trainer and he could probably beat trip easily if he used his strongest Pokemon. Paul had more experience than Trip and some really strong Pokemon. Some of which he has been with for a long time. Much longer than Trip. If you look at Paul's record, he has also gone very far in some tournaments. He won the Tag Team tournament, was 2nd in the Poke Ringer and made Top 8 of the Sinnoh League. Trip has been eliminated very early in some recent tournaments and he is still a beginner. He would struggle against Paul. He only lost 3 times. One was against Cynthia, the Sinnoh League Champion, one was against Brandon, the most powerful Frontier brain in Kanto and one was against Ash which was very close. Remember that Ash lost to Paul in a 6 on 6 battle where Ash only knocked out 2 of Paul's Pokemon.
     
  4. sereb devil

    sereb devil Banned

    Trip only lost 2 pokemon battles and he did tied with Ash on his three on three pokemon battle. By the look of it Trip would have a very hard time battling against Paul who does have very strong pokemon on his team. Trip has been training to become a stronger pokemon trainer, but he still has time to get stronger.
     
  5. Pokemaniac24

    Pokemaniac24 Banned

    Trip has potenital certainly. But judging by where Trip is now, I don't think he would beat Paul.
     
  6. Alfred the Second

    Alfred the Second Dracoflare


    First know the difference between a jerk and an honest opinion.

    Explaining to you is a waste of time, why because despite such an detail explanation I gave you still use the same words Jerk and bully. I bet you never might have met one irl. It is impossible to make sense to someone who has a baseless hate towards a certain character.


    Explaining to you was a waste of time...but there are certainly others who could hoplefully read it properly.....not with the intention of contradicting every statement and quoting points convenient to you.

    But I will have one more point before I make this last post in this thread......if the writers wanted to show Paul as a jerk or bully why the **** would they bother about introducing Reggie and give him a backstory.
     
  7. LilyTwo

    LilyTwo Well-Known Member

    Paul is a jerk. Zoey is a person who gives honest opinions.


    I met many of them irl, that's why I recognize one when I see him.


    To trick us into believing that he's actually sympathetic. Which I'm not going to fall for.
     
  8. Ash Ketchum!

    Ash Ketchum! Pokemon Trainer

    Well the series isn't over yet, so you shouldn't be comparing.
     
  9. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    What about say an army trainer? Someone who's incredibly strict and demanding, everyone who's being trained by one or watches one train thinks he's a complete jerk, but afterwards when you look at the results you realise it is sometimes neccesary.

    Brandon was a hugely important battle to Paul, the whole reason he became the sort of trainer he did was after watching his brother "give up" his trainer route and becoming a breeder after he lost to Brandon something which he saw a huge weakness, of course emotion is going to pour through. He probably hated the guy that changed his brother like that, also he was humiliated in that battle he lost all 6 of his pokemon without defeating a single one of Brandon's that's going to be really frustrating and create anger as an oppose to a hugely intense battle with Ash where he lost by one single pokemon.

    Opinion, i found Paul probably the most creative characters I've seen in Pokemon and one of the best and most innovative battlers. As for the rest of those characters you mentioned, there nothing like Paul they were sometimes playfully mean to Ash but that's about it.

    Fan-girls will appear over any character, Paul has got a small but dedicated following, he's never going to have the same level of popularity as someone like Dawn or Cilan who's ultra nice to other people/pokemon.

    This proves absolutely nothing, if the only evidence you have is somebody who's never appeared in the anime, and someone who appeared for 1 episode and was shown to be a jerk, and promptly defeated to prove a point then that's not much to me.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  10. ☭Secret_Shocker☭

    ☭Secret_Shocker☭ Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty neutral I guess. Since that's how his personality was scripted, I can't say anything... but I'd appreciate it more if they toned him down a little bit. He's strong to anyway.
     
  11. Grey Wind

    Grey Wind Only rescues maidens

    I'm gonna zoom in here and say that expecting deep and engaging stuff from a kid's show is pretty dumb. Yeah, Paul had his problems, but for Pokemon standards he was pretty great. You can't compare it to other fiction because nothing on this show is going to be very deep and engaging. Watch it with more of a child's mind.

    Not... not really. Gary's story was "hey I'm a jerk oh I lost I'm polite now how do you do oh I lost again TIME TO GIVE UP". I hardly think that that is any more than what Paul got.

    Well yeah, he appeared a bit in the sixty or so pre-league episodes, but he barely did anything. Heck, his first battle with Ash wasn't until after the Orange Islands. And then in Johto, he appeared hardly at all. Gary was a terrible rival.

    Ummm, so having four Pokemon (one of which that is fully-evolved) fire attacks at an unevolved Pokemon at the same time when it can't possibly defend itself isn't abuse?
    uh ok

    He actually said that Iris has "inherently malicious traits" and she could be "sent to jail for identity theft". Bully may have popped up somewhere.
     
  12. LilyTwo

    LilyTwo Well-Known Member

    Again, an army trainer tries to bring out people's strength for the good of everyone. Paul wants his Pokemon to become strong for himself and himself only.

    And again, after that shor breakdown he was back to being an ******* and never learned anything.

    Creative? If you consider Paul to be creative, you need a dictionary. He's your generic run-of-the-mill jerkass who abuses Pokemon and treats people like crap.

    Last time I checked, Paul has a HUGE fanbase both in and out of the anime, while Dawn is one of the most hated Pokemon girls ever. So your argument is null and void.

    Why not? DAmien is EXACLY like Paul is.
     
  13. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    That analogy would work....if pokemon battles were like war, but they're NOT. They're competitions like sports, and for sports, you need a coach. A coach who is strict and works you hard, but also makes an effort to better himself too and compliments or rewards his players when they do their best. Paul is not that. He's an army trainer in a competiton setting, and that makes him a complete jerk.

    Yeah, Paul's an army trainer allright...like Sgt. Hartman from "Full Metal Jacket!"

    The pokemon that he abused and abandoned for being a worthless weakling. He should have cracked upon seeing that Ash's training methods succeeded where his failed and made his Chimchar a fully evolved, stronger pokemon capable of defeating his Electivire that he trained through his "army training." He should have realized that he wasn't as strong, cool, and effective as he thought he was. But no, apparently he was 'cause he and Ash are equally great trainers who just have different methods. Which is utter BS writing.

    If you've seen Naruto, then you must find Sasuke Uchiha to be a creative character too because the whole thought process behind him was to be "the perfect rival." And I don't give a damn about how he is as a battler: it doesn't make up for him being boring, invincible, and a terrible person.

    The only one who was ever "playfully mean" was Drew. Gary, Harley, Suwama, and others really WERE mean.

    What you said before is true: he wasn't made as a fangirl magnet. He was made as a fanboy magnet.

    It's not that I "expect" something to be deep and engaging: it's that fans THINK that everything Paul brought to the table was deep and engaging when it wasn't. It wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't!

    Whenever Gary DID provide conflict, he was more of a proper rival that Paul ever was. Quality is more important than quantity here.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  14. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    He is an incredibly strict trainer your right but for the most part his results speak for themselves, i myself admit that it was overexcessive bombarding Chimchar with attack after attack but it was shown that he did that because Chimchar activated his Blaze ability when under an enormous amount of pressure and when it was close to breaking from attack after attack, yes he showed an awful lack of empathy with his Pokemon but he would never do anything uneccessarily cruel or unmerited such as Tieing Tepig up like Suwama or leaving Charmander waiting on a promise that he wouldn't fullfill like Damien. He wasn't a spiteful person just blunt and uncaring for the most part. Anyway wasn't it after Electivire wore it down and Paul taunted it at the Sinnoh league that it did finally get up and activate Blaze?

    I can't convey this to you unless it's in a real life standard, if you play any sort of sports, something like boxing/soccer in a serious environment and you have a really intense match against someone, whether or not you thought they were good, bad, or indifferent by the end of it if you have lost by just a small amount you'll usually go about shaking there hands and congratulating them because your pumped up from how hard/emotional the battle was, this is what i believe Paul felt also can i again mention that he has never been a sore-loser, when he lost against both Cynthia and Brandon he quietly walked off and didn't shout/protest despite his spilling emotion during the battle against Brandon. It would of been far more "out of character" for him to scream about his loss like a spoilt kid.

    I'm sorry i never have seen it so i can't really comment, as for boring, invincible and terrible, the former and the latter are a matter of opinion and perspective, and he wasn't shown to be invincible just incredibly tough.. Tobias is an example of being invincible, not Paul.

    Yes but the point is with characters like Damien they were really just used to enforce that bad people lost, think about it: Damien was shown to be cruel to charmander, Ash saves charmander, charmander uses flamethrower on Damien (notice how Damien runs off screaming for his "mum" after this who is going to have an ounce of empathy or liking for him?) Ash catches Charmander, happy ending. Paul was a reocurring character with deeper emotions and a deeper storyline than this, there's so much difference between the two.

    Opinionnnnn.

    And opinion again, there's nothing i can really say here.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  15. Maetch

    Maetch Well-Known Member

    Paul was really just a redesigned version of Silver (the G/S/C Rival). Same general appearence, same self-centered attitude, same Pokemon training mantra of "the weak are worthless". I didn't see anything worth sympathizing for in him.
     
  16. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    Difference between them is that Silver had LEGITIMATE reasons for being the way he was, his behaviour and actions were NOT glossed over or excused in canon, he was acutally TOLD OFF for being such a jerk, and he learned better from his experiences until he became a friend to his pokemon and a much better person by the end. Plus, he was genuinely cool 'cause he was something of a junior criminal (which is not cool in real life, but still...) and even he never seemed to go as far in actually abusing his pokemon the way Paul did.
     
  17. Maetch

    Maetch Well-Known Member

    That's why I said that I didn't sympathize with Paul. At least Silver gradually figured out that his way was flawed.
     
  18. Breeder Drew

    Breeder Drew Well-Known Member

    Paul was more or less a trainer from Hell. That's really the only way to put it, especially since he had no motives for being the way he was.
     
  19. Yay. Paul is my favorite rival of all (with Gary following). Yes, he may be this one angry dude throughout the series, but his Pokemon were far more interesting than Gary. Plus, Gary started out to be somehow of a Gary Stu.
     
  20. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    Gary, a "Gary" Stu. Ha Ha.
     
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