Paul: Emotionless drone or a deluxe rival?

[DMerle]

It's annoying i feel like we're just going round in circles, me and other people will point out loads of instances of Paul changing then someone else will come on and be like "Pauls a dumb rival he never changed." I mean if you even read the last page even people who are criticising Paul are saying that he changed too quickly.

 

[Pokemaniac24]

Sereb Devil, do you have ANYTHING good to say about DP? ANYTHING?

 

[BurningSociety12345543210]

Ahem so, yeah responses in bold.

Lake Acuity was entertaining? ........yeah, Didn't think so.
No thank you, I don't re-watch episodes.
Lolwhat. When did I say anything about Barry.
Interaction? They just said bye.
He just gave a smug smile after beating Ash in the Monferno episode.
He bows to the.......what. I see a lot of characters do that.
Losing to a frontier brain shouldn't emotionally scar you.

You just said UR WRONG to everything I posted? Yeah, cool.

 

[Alfred the Second]

Lake Acuity was entertaining? ........yeah, Didn't think so.(I am pretty sure there are plenty of people who will disagree with you
No thank you, I don't re-watch episodes. (Not my problem)
Lolwhat. When did I say anything about Barry.(I was using him as an example......sigh
Interaction? They just said bye.(I don't have any comment on this...so all that looked like a simple bye, huh? This shows how much you understand.
He just gave a smug smile after beating Ash in the Monferno episode.What is he supposed to do? Kiss Monferno and say, good job you have evolved?
He bows to the.......what. I see a lot of characters do that...........Yeah a lot of characters bow to a lot of things, that wasn't my point......just see his his behavior towards his elders again.
Losing to a frontier brain shouldn't emotionally scar you.Don't make me laugh, okay? At this point you are only trying to contradict me, saying I am wrong.

You just said UR WRONG to everything I posted? Yeah, cool.Umm. ...huh?

So yeah, your argument is pretty cool. You don't have a valid point and all you do is balantly contradict the points I raised, this isn't how a discussion should go.

 

[AgentPierce]

Okay, I've been busy for awhile, but I've gotta comment on some of this stuff that I've missed.

And why do you think Paul's reasons weren't legitimate? His brother who presumably wanted to become a Pokemon Master or something till then lost terribly to Brandon. He was watching the battle back then. Of course it had tremendous effect on him.

Or, as I like to put it, "My big brother actually lost to one of the strongest trainers in the world? He's weak, WEAK I SAY! I cannot be like him, so I'll immediately start abusing my pokemon!" And I'm sorry, but that is a really lousy reason to act like a cold, ruthless jerk.

And in a way comparing the game character and anime character is wrong...because the game fails to go into detail about a character. Silver is always shown to pop out of nowhere and fight the player but never was it explained in detail how he treated his Pokemon, unless you are confusing him with Silver from Manga.

Silver from Pokemon Special never abused his pokemon at all. And Silver from the game, despite lack of detail, was better developed than Paul ever was in his four years on the show.

So many people including myself have posted examples of him slowly changing, you just deliberately ignore it.

Because they're not examples of him slowly changing: they're forced moments of trying to make him look redeemable.

I already didn't like Paul at first. This one atrocity cemented in my mind that Paul is an heartless, soulless bully.

Same here. And though he was supposedly "redeemed" in the end, never once did Paul ever say he was sorry for this.

The answer: Paul was a terrible rival. End of discussion.

Unfortunately, so many people don't see it that way, so the discussion will go on...

Personally, I think Paul was the best thing to happen to the DP anime. His rivalry with Ash felt like more than just a clash of two trainers on the battlefield, it was a total clash of training styles. It was great to see a recurring character who was such an opposite of Ash.

I stopped reading right there. This is what every Paul fan likes to say: that this one-note, dull as dirt jerk rival character was the best thing to happen to the anime, that his rivalry with Ash over different training methods was the deepest, most fascinating thing ever seen in the show, and that he was Ash's ultimate adversary. None of this, I feel, is true. If it's your opinion, fine, but I simply do not have the time for Paul and people who worship him like this.

Is this even a reason? If you watch your own brother losing terribly you would definitely feel that too. He must have thought of his brother as a great trainer till then, but when was squished by Brandon his image of his brother was shattered before his eyes.

Again, if Paul honestly thought that his brother losing to one of the strongest trainers in the world was an impossibility, he was a dumbass. And even so, the loss and Brandon's words to Reggie alone should not have been enough to make Paul immedately turn into a cold, aloof pokemon abuser. Than again, Reggie did say he always had a cruel streak, so I could chalk it up to sociopathy.

Paul's appeal wore off fast for me. By the time of the Lake Acuity battle I'd lost intrest.

Paul's appeal wore off for me by his second appearance in the show.

he has a fair reason atleast

Isn't Lilytwo a she????

 

[Mr. Ribbles]

Yes, Paul was extremely boring. He showed a total of three emotional expressions, barely reacted to anything like a kid realistically should, was a horrific jerkass yet never got much in the way of comeuppance for it and barely developed past this personality, had an incredibly tacked-on backstory, and engaged in the same dull argument with Ash over and over again every single time they met. "My training methods are better than your's!" People in this fandom who honestly think THIS is deep and engaging stuff need to read/watch more fiction.

What this guy said.

Paul is just an emotionless drone. Freakin Silver from g/s/c/hg/ss had more emotion.

 

[sereb devil]

Sereb Devil, please read your posts again please.....and see your logic.

It is like saying Hey Statement A is true because B is false.....but why is B false? Because A is true.



You plainly hate Paul accept it, don't try to add stupid logic to it. My logic is more better then your stupid non sense, Paul didn't really change at the end of the Sinnoh League since he was still the same uncaring jerkass rival. Deal with the fact Paul was a very terrible rival.

Your logic is very dumb and false. Paul was just a plain brainless robot like character with no personality what so ever. He never shown any signs that he was changing his cruel ways of treating his pokemon badly. You don't want to admit that he was a terrible rival on the show.

Atleast lily two admits that he hates Paul because of the impression he left by the chimchar treatment and then how the writers improperly changed his character......he has a fair reason atleast. (But still unacceptable to me)

It's annoying i feel like we're just going round in circles, me and other people will point out loads of instances of Paul changing then someone else will come on and be like "Pauls a dumb rival he never changed." I mean if you even read the last page even people who are criticising Paul are saying that he changed too quickly.

I don't wanna call out any individuals but his name begins with Sereb ends with Devil and there's nothing in the middle.

No there isn't anything in the middle of my user name. The thing is Paul didn't change at all during the DP series, he still remain the same jerkass trainer to his own pokemon, the writers didn't do a very good job with his character at all.

Sereb Devil, do you have ANYTHING good to say about DP? ANYTHING?

The only good thing about DP is Ash getting his first dragon type pokemon, other then that it suck. Pokemaniac, don't forget people have a right to their own opinions.

 

[Faker500]

I say yay. I liked Paul. I think it would have been cool to have him as a main character though. I mean I understand the rivalry being good but the group needed someone like him. I mean Ash had other rivals too. Some who didn't barely get attention. But all in all they did a good job with him. Even if though he sounds like a 30 year old on meth.

 

[DMerle]

The thing is Paul didn't change at all during the DP series, he still remain the same jerkass trainer to his own pokemon, the writers didn't do a very good job with his character at all.

Or you didn't pay close enough attention..

 

[LilyTwo]

Or you didn't pay close enough attention..

Or perhaps he did, after all.

 

[LilyTwo]

Personally, I think Paul was the best thing to happen to the DP anime. His rivalry with Ash felt like more than just a clash of two trainers on the battlefield, it was a total clash of training styles. It was great to see a recurring character who was such an opposite of Ash.

I don't see a problem with how his story was resolved, either. Paul was never rude to anyone for no reason whatsoever. He got annoyed at Ash because Ash kept on berating him about his style - honestly, it looked to me like more often than not, Ash was the one saying "your method of training is completely wrong" rather than the other way around. He got annoyed at Maylene because as a Gym Leader, he felt that she had provided a disappointing challenge and was unworthy of her position. He got annoyed at Dawn because a) she berated him about his style in the same way that Ash did, and b) he naively assumed that coordinators had no talent for real battles. He got annoyed at Chimchar because no matter what he tried, it didn't show the power that he knew it was capable of. These are the four that I remember from DP, and although you may think that some of these reasons were logically flawed or that they didn't make him a particularly nice guy, you have to admit that they're there. Paul did not just go up to your average guy on the street and call him a worthless piece of trash. At the end of the series, he complimented Ash because he has gained respect for him due to Ash's victory in their league battle. Since Ash had never really come close to beating him before, Paul found it hard to take him and his training methods seriously until then (he had likely not met someone who opposed his methods so vehemently before).

His training style was, without a doubt, extremely harsh. But Paul did not see it as cruel because in the end, his Pokémon got stronger and he got results. Raising strong Pokémon is a big part of being a trainer aiming for the Pokémon League, and this was all that Paul was focused on. And a lot of his Pokémon responded well to his method. He didn't develop much of an emotional connection with them, but this is Paul - he never developed much of an emotional connection with anyone. With Chimchar he made the mistake of pushing it way too far - he did this because he knew Chimchar had potential, and he tried to draw it out the only way he knew how. It was hurting Chimchar, but in the end Paul believed that it would all pay off. He was arrogant in believing that Pokémon, rather than his training method, were the ones at fault. But he did not abuse Chimchar because he relished inflicting pain on it or anything - he put it in dangerous situations in the belief that they would draw out Chimchar's strength.

At the end of the day, Paul was an arrogant guy with a method of training that disconnected him from his Pokémon emotionally, because he believed that pushing them to their limits was the best way to make them stronger. I think these characteristics made him interesting and a great rival for Ash.

...

Too long, did not listen.

 

[Josef Stylin]

...

Too long, did not listen

Ignorance isn't bliss in an argument.

Honestly, if you hate Paul, that's fine, I can respect your opinion. But you're just gonna refuse to listen to anyone who brings decent points that can support the opposition instead of telling why you disagree with them, why should we even be listening to your points?

 

[BurningSociety12345543210]

So yeah, your argument is pretty cool.

What the hell does that have to do with anything. I'm not trying to look cool. I was simply stating what made Paul a bad character, and you, a Paul fan, started nitpicking.

You don't have a valid point and all you do is balantly contradict the points I raised, this isn't how a discussion should go.

Wat. That's what you did. If I recall, you're the one who replied to me.

 

[DMerle]

Or, as I like to put it, "My big brother actually lost to one of the strongest trainers in the world? He's weak, WEAK I SAY! I cannot be like him, so I'll immediately start abusing my pokemon!" And I'm sorry, but that is a really lousy reason to act like a cold, ruthless jerk.

No no no, it wasn't his loss, obviously Reggie had lost countless times before it was the fact that he gave up after battling, we saw from Reggie's collection of badges that he'd been a very strong and competent trainer and Paul was also young at the time and had just gotten his first Pokemon. He obviously would of looked up to Reggie a lot, and seeing not only his idol but his older brother lose and then just give up as a trainer completely is going to have an effect on him.

Because they're not examples of him slowly changing: they're forced moments of trying to make him look redeemable.

Nope. They're examples of him coming around to make a change you just don't choose to accept them as that.

Same here. And though he was supposedly "redeemed" in the end, never once did Paul ever say he was sorry for this.

Paul wasn't that sort of character, what did you expect him to do go and apologise to Infernape for launching a barrage of attacks at it to activate it's Blaze, when it had just won the battle through said Blaze being activated from Electivire's attacks and Paul's taunting?

Isn't Lilytwo a she????

This just in, more than on it as it develops.



The problem i have here is that everybody seems to take Paul down to his simplest form, I can choose absolutely anything and do that. Like when Paul watched his brother lose to Reggie obviously it's going to impact him as a kid when his brother is someone he looks up to but you just word it in such a way it doesn't look positive: "Oh my brother lost a battle so i'm going to go abuse Pokemon." When he didn't just lose he quit, and he didn't abuse Pokemon he overworked them and showed little empathy but by no means abused them. You can make anything look bad when you take it down to it's simplest form i could go up to an olympic athlete and be like "So ok what you do is basically run for a living?" I don't have a problem with people who don't like Paul that's your opinion and cool, we'll agree to disagree but when your going to consistently just twist things that happened with him, ignore any sort of development and stun it as "bad writing" then i don't even see why your continuing to post in this thread. No matter what anybody says you're not going to change your mind or even accept new information/opinions that are brought to the table, you are just going to continue to brush them to one side and say that it's inconsequential and blindly go on hating Paul.

 

[Ash Ketchum!]

I'm pretty sure i did pay enough attention. Paul just plain suck as a rival that he do deserve to be hated.

Paul sucks? What does Trip offer to his rivalry with Ash? Just saying "That's basic"?

 

[sereb devil]

Paul sucks? What does Trip offer to his rivalry with Ash? Just saying "That's basic"?

The thing that Trip offers to Ash is improving his skills a lot more as a Pokemon trainer. Paul never really offer anything new to Ash for their rivarly besides just being a jerk to him.

 

[LilyTwo]

Nope. They're examples of him coming around to make a change you just don't choose to accept them as that.

Nope. They're examples of bad writing, the writers randomly changing him from one episode to the other so he wouldn't be punished for his cruelty.

Paul wasn't that sort of character, what did you expect him to do go and apologise to Infernape for launching a barrage of attacks at it to activate it's Blaze, when it had just won the battle through said Blaze being activated from Electivire's attacks and Paul's taunting?

So, in other words, you're saying that it's okay for Paul to abuse and mistreat Chimchar becaus, hey, it helped him get stronger? Your logic scares me.

The problem i have here is that everybody seems to take Paul down to his simplest form.

Frankly, I saw nothing to Paul other than a bland, abusive jerk.

 

[Heartlessangel17]

Paul was a tool, but he really drove Ash forward in the series. Lets face it, when Ash lost to Paul when they had that full 6 on 6 match, it was a turning point for Ash's character, and the fact that he used the exact same team to fight Paul in the Unova League, and won this time, when Paul was using a far superior team this time, well, it showed how far he pushed Ash as a rival. Yeah, he was a jerk wad, but he was a good opposite to Ash. Trip is...well, not.

 

[Alfred the Second]

Paul was a tool, but he really drove Ash forward in the series. Lets face it, when Ash lost to Paul when they had that full 6 on 6 match, it was a turning point for Ash's character, and the fact that he used the exact same team to fight Paul in the Unova League, and won this time, when Paul was using a far superior team this time, well, it showed how far he pushed Ash as a rival. Yeah, he was a jerk wad, but he was a good opposite to Ash. Trip is...well, not.

This. This. This.

Paul is a jerk and I believe he has reasons to be one, although the so called "haters" don't want to accept the reasons, he drove Ash forward. He made Ash doubt his battle style, he was responsible for how Ash grew in DP. I never understand the people who say 'DP sucks', they don't provide strong arguments. When you compare with AG Ash really grew up as a character, although Pokemon is known for very less character development.

After Gary this was the first time I felt Ash grow as a character. Face it, without a rival the hero will never develop as much. Gary was awesome as a character but Paul was the one who 'pushed' Ash forward.

As for Trip,I don't think we should comment on him yet, that kid has potential, the writers will certainly show us the conflict between him and Ash. let's hope they don't mess with Trip.

 

[I am Lu]

My grammar is not bad at all and my age have nothing to do with wether my grammar is good or not. You should check your own grammar out while you or at it.

As an English major, I weep for humanity.

The thing that Trip offers to Ash is improving his skills a lot more as a Pokemon trainer. Paul never really offer anything new to Ash for their rivarly besides just being a jerk to him.

I have to disagree. Paul drove Ash to improve his skills, too. That loss to Paul at Lake Acuity really shook Ash up. Was Paul a douche? Yup. But he was integral in Ash's character development.