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Paul: Emotionless drone or a deluxe rival?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Grey Wind, May 13, 2012.

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  1. sereb devil

    sereb devil Banned

    Paul was nothing more but an abusive uncaring mean cruel jerkass pokemon trainer, who didn't care about his own pokemon without him being redeem at all. Paul didn't really do a whole lot of helping Ash to improve his skills as a pokemon trainer, Ash pretty much did that his self with out Paul's help.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  2. I am Lu

    I am Lu Well-Known Member

    You can stop repeating this same rhetoric now. It's getting old.

    Yes, Ash's improvement was his own doing, but defeating Paul was his motivation. He wouldn't have really realized he needed to improve dramatically unless Paul was around. Ash went into the battle at Lake Acuity thinking he could match Paul's strength. Getting crushed by Paul's Pokemon was the wake-up call he needed.

    It's reminiscent of went on with May and Drew in AG. Drew wiped the floor with May in their first contest battle, and continued to defeat her every single time the battled in later episodes. This combined with his condescending nature motivated May to actually take contesting seriously, and improve. She eventually did and defeated him in the Kanto Grand Festival.
     
  3. Blessed

    Blessed Well-Known Member

    Teh grammer nazis haev invadd deh thred.

    Paul was a tool to get Ash motivated and to strive through with determination. His arrogant & cold personality (as well as collected) brought the best of Ash only enriching their rivalry making it more interesting. He showed how there is much more, having feelings and personal issues. He carried burden of feeling obligated to prove himself, as well as others to become better than his brother Reggie & not ending up as him. But my point with Lilly still stands, so.
     
  4. sereb devil

    sereb devil Banned

    My grammar is perfectly ok. Stop worring about my grammar and look at your own ...

    Paul didn't really change Ash that much but made their rivarly look uninteresting and pointless. Just because his bother lost a battle does not mean he didn't have to become an emotionless battle drone with a coldhearted personality, which is what Paul's character was really like. He was the worst rival the pokemon anime series ever did had.

     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  5. TotalPotato

    TotalPotato Vegetable of Doom!

    Geez, when I actually come here to try to engage in a good debate, it really disheartens me to see comments like "I stopped reading right there" and massive hyperbole of everything I say. It would be nice if you would read my comments for what they are.

    I don't think for one second that Paul was a nice guy, but I enjoyed watching him because he was an interesting contrast to pretty much everyone else. Sure, you have the occasional jerkwad who appears in one episode, gets their comeuppance and is never seen again, but their appearances are so fleeting that they hardly make an impact. Then you have the likes of Ursula who seem to fly into a jealous hissy fit with little or no provocation. Paul had reasons for behaving like he did - some people say that those reasons weren't good enough, but that's because they're looking at the situation from the outside, and they're not trying to emotionally connect with the character. Reasons for being who you are are very personal, after all.

    If anyone wants to see more detail as to what reasons I think he had for behaving like he did, I'm not going to repeat them again, but they're in the big paragraphs in my earlier post that some of you doubtless glossed over either because you judged me based on two sentences, thought they were too long, or just didn't care about my opinion.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  6. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    Punished? What exactly does he need to be punished for, i'm not trying to be rude but are you 6 damn years old? What did Paul do that was so unforgivable, i think if you hate Paul to a point that goes beyond reason because he launched a barrage of attacks on Chimchar with a good reason then you should just stay locked inside. It's a pretty nasty world out there.

    Why? When Paul caught Chimchar it was because it's power under pressure was immense he was just trying to recreate the same situation.

    There's seeing and selectively seeing, if you actually read through some of the comments and were actually willing to take them to mind instead of just being like "No paul is a jerk" you might change your perspective of him a little.
     
  7. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    Some arguments just aren't worth listening too, because the one arguing will never relent.

    The way it was handled was stupid, though. After Brandon called Reggie out for his weakness, Paul took it to heart and immediately glared at his Turtwig, as if saying "I'm going to push you hard from now on!" And that's not believable behaviour, at all.

    I would if there actually was a change of heart, but there wasn't. Paul never changed as a person: he was barely a person to start with!

    Not much because Ash doesn't really offer him anything other than just wanting to battle him all the time. Why should Trip WANT to offer something in a rivalry with an idiot boy who always wants to battle him for no reason whatsoever?

    No, No, NO. That's not character development or growth at all: that's getting better as a trainer, which is not the same as growing up as a character! Ash was just the same static goody twoshoes character from start to finish in DP. Thus "making him doubt his battle style" isn't going to make him mature any as a person so much as it is going to improve his training experience. Heck, he barely ever remembered Paul and the training method conflict he provided until Paul showed his ugly face again! And yes, I could give a dozen of reasons DP sucked *** but I don't think this is the thread for that. This is exclusively about one of it's absolute worst aspects: Paul.

    Except that, again, Ash forgot all about Paul after the two parted ways at the end of each encounter, and everytime he showed up again, Ash was always like "Hey Paul! How are you doing?" and Paul gave him the cold shoulder in response, making Ash remember what a jerk he was. With Gary, Ash referenced him a good deal even when he wasn't present and was always getting word about how Gary was two steps ahead of him, which pushed him to try harder and become a pokemon master. Paul did nothing to push Ash towards any sort of goal: he just provided opposition to his Sinnoh League quest, and his training methods.

    Again...there. was. no. character. development. At all.

    I'm sorry, I meant no offense to you personally, it's just that I've heard these things before. Way too many times to count.

    His worst actions would be: abusing Chimchar to the point of trauma, needlessly insulting Maylene, and having no empathy for the things he did, like when he crushed Ash in the battle at Lake Aucity. He's a bad, bad person who needed to be punished.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  8. Grey Wind

    Grey Wind Only rescues maidens

    ... for Pokemon. It's a kid's show. People thought it was deep and engaging for a kid's show. Nobody is calling Paul the best written character in anything ever, they're calling him good in compared to other characters on the show.

    Why?

    Again, why? You're not really backing up your argument here :s

    How did they show that poorly? Not quite sure what you mean here.

    ... clearly, Paul had a personality. Just because someone doesn't show a lot of emotion doesn't mean they have no personality. A lack of emotion is a personality. Also, blurting out how much you hate Paul isn't a very good way of arguing.

    Ash and Paul both wanted to win the Sinnoh league and defeat Cynthia. Your point?

    Um ok, thanks for recapping the last few DP episodes I guess. What does this have to do with anything?

    Paul did change. He was shown to gain respect for Ash when he learned that Ash had previously defeated Brandon, when Monferno evolved, and finally when Ash defeated him during the Sinnoh league. Paul also thanked Electivire before recalling it, something he had never done before even when his Pokemon won. In my opinion, it was much nicer to see a subtle change in Paul's ways, than just have him totally change his personality after one loss.

    Paul become so adamant about power because he saw his, until then, almost unbeatable brother lose a battle so easily. He didn't want to turn out like Reggie, so he trained "to the max". Paul obviously had his "inner abuser" beforehand, but Reggie's loss was what really made him strive to be the strongest.

    ... Silver and Paul had pretty much the same story. Cold and jerkish with a lack of connection with their Pokemon, became nicer and treated their Pokemon better after losing to their rival and having the champion talk to them about their style.

    No they're not? I'm sorry, but this is just clear bias against Paul.

    You know, all of these "I stopped reading" and "pfft stupid Paul stan" comments don't help your argument at all, and make you come across as disrespectful and whiny.

    My god, way to exaggerate everything. Why do you have such a problem with people liking Paul? The people who "worship" him are in a very small minority. I could also say the same for you and your "worship" of Team Rocket and Zager.

    See my response above.

    Wow you owned him.

    So... Trip apparently offers Ash something new (even though he doesn't) therefore Paul is a terribly written character?

    The more you say it, the more right it becomes!

    ... Again, why does this matter and how did any of the other rivals do this?

    Actually, your grammar is atrocious and it makes your posts a pain to read and understand.

    I am legitimately confused as to what this means.

    e: ****, this was a long post. AgentPierce, I'll edit in my reply to you in a minute.


    Yes, it is. Reggie was Paul's idol, he was an extremely strong trainer. Seeing him lose made Paul want to become more powerful, so he would never have to face the humiliation Reggie did.

    ....

    You are aware that it was pretty much the same way with Paul? Ash just repeatedly challenged him to a battle. You're just grasping at straws by saying "well Trip doesn't need to offer him anything, but PAUL SHOULD HAVE".

    Well he sort of was punished. He lost terribly to Brandon, and lost again to Ash. To Paul, that almost was punishment, considering how he reacted to Reggie's loss.

    whew
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  9. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    oh dear lord.


    Valoo you make some great points/arguments.
     
  10. Caseydia

    Caseydia Ace Trainer

    Whoa! What happened in here? I turn around then turn back and find actual Paul bashing going on? I never thought I would see the day.

    I don't think Paul was cruel like that just to purposely hurt his Pokemon. I think he thought that if he pushed them his hardest that they would be strong enough to with stand anything or surpass his brother. But he was only a kid and he just needed a kick in the pants to wake him up and he did woke up. I don't see what the problem is now. His method of treatement must have not been challenged enough except when confronted with Ash's veiws and ideals. When youy look back at it, they both were good for each other. Ash was good for waking Paul up to see that you don't have to be that way and Paul helped Ash be a better battler.
     
  11. LilyTwo

    LilyTwo Well-Known Member

    He's just telling the truth.


    You do realize, don't you, that the writers intentionally dumbed down Ash in the Lake Acuity battle, in order to make Paul seem somuch better by comparison?
     
  12. Josef Stylin

    Josef Stylin I want to die

    You didn't even read his arguments, how do you know if they're worth listening to or not?
     
  13. LilyTwo

    LilyTwo Well-Known Member

    Seriously, if you think that abusing Chimchar (and many Pokemon before him), insulting Maylene and Ash and breking their spirits, rage quitting in the double battle with Ash, and generally acting like a completejerk to everyone he met isn't worth of punishment, then there's not much more I can say to you.

    And no, that WASN'T a good reason to launch those attacks on Chimchar. It was cruelty, plain and simple.

    I don't care about the situation. It was wrong, period.


    All those comments seem to me like nothing but desperate attempts by Paul fanboys to justify his atrocious behaviour. Sorry, I'm not falling for it.

    He changed because the writers made him pull out some slight hints of kindness out of nowhere. He was completely out of character during the Sinnoh League, can't you see that?

    Nuh-uh. Still a terrible excuse for his cruelty.



    Only, Silver's development into a better person did not happen out of the blue, and he was punished for his earler behaviour. Paul never was, and became a nicer person with no hints to it at all.

    Because many of those who like Paul - nearly all, in fact - refuse to see what a terrible person he is. And trust me, there are *many* people who worship him...

    At least Trip is an interesting character instead of a one-note abusive bully.

    It *is* right, you know.

    Considering he shrugged off both those losses, then no, it was not enough punishment.

    Stupid double post.

    At least Ursula cared for her Pokemon, which is more than I could ever say about Paul. *SHE* was the most interesting rival in the DP saga, not that uncaring, heinous bastard.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2012
  14. I am Lu

    I am Lu Well-Known Member

    No, he's spewing out the same opinion over and over again. It makes for a poor argument.


    Oh, I didn't know you were a writer.
     
  15. LilyTwo

    LilyTwo Well-Known Member

    Hey, it can't be helped if he's right.

    Head writer Atsuhiro Tomioka even came out and said Paul was his favourite character. What more do you need?
    The writers downplayed Ash's battling skill - after he had justpulled an impressive victory against Candice - and made Paul look untouchable.
     
  16. I am Lu

    I am Lu Well-Known Member

    No... It's just bad rhetoric.



    The fact doesn't prove that the writers dumbed Ash's battling skills down. You're assuming something of someone without conclusive evidence.
     
  17. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    Do you know how infuriating it is to try and have a debate with someone who has the emotional disposition of a 2 year old, and just constantly brushes over any comment made with "But Paul was mean to Chimchar.."

    Your so deluded in your hatred for Paul that you accuse the writers of trying to "trick" you into liking him.. I mean seriously you come across as insane i mean look above, you make two posts one after another so instead of trying to rectify the situation by copying the second and pasting it onto the first and then deleting your second post you say

    Equalling a third post, and then after that you make ANOTHER post right after making the fourth.. I mean it's incredible.
     
  18. R?IDDl3R

    R?IDDl3R ace trainer

    he was such a troll.. but he was ashs biggest challenge yet... he is an amazing trainer and he does have a heart .. he aint all dark
     
  19. sereb devil

    sereb devil Banned

    I made a few mistakes in my post while i was posting, i will have to fix it. I never did consider Paul to be the biggest challenge for Ash because he was nothing more but an bland boring battle drone, that made him have no personality. Paul is not an amazing trainer are the greatest rival the show ever had, he was just an poor written rival that the writers thought they could just throw him in their and everybody would like him being very cruel ruthless , and coldhearted to his pokemon which didn't make his character be like by an whole lot of people.
     
  20. R?IDDl3R

    R?IDDl3R ace trainer

    you have a descriptive point there but remember toward the and where he smiled to ash.. shows some heart
     
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