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Paul vs the Master Class

AJ97

Well-Known Member
I figured I'd start a thread to discuss how current Paul stacks up to the Master Class.

Paul has so far battled the Strongest Iteration of Ash (Post Raihan/Pre Master Class Tournament Ash). He seemed to perform relatively well against Ash and held his own in battle (Which also included having an advantage at times).

One could argue that Ash wasn't necessarily going all out in the battle and he wasn't pushed to his limits, however, frankly, the very same argument could also be extended to Paul as he too was more focused on training Ash (By Intentionally using the Master Class members aces). Plus, we also see Paul motivate Ash mid-battle when the former was having an advantage. This is very contradictory to Paul's general personality who in theory would be far more strategic and specific while choosing a team/pokemon against an opponent he's looking to win against.

Paul defeated Ash's Dragonite. A much weaker iteration of the very same Dragonite that defeated "Champion Dragon Master" Iris's Haxorus. Can't wait to see what defense Iris stans come up with, to diminish this feat now lol.

Paul and Ash were rivals who were always shown to be relative to each other in strength with equal odds of winning a battle if they were to go up against each other. While they had very different training philosophies at one point, they eventually respect each other's approach and have matured and become much better trainers as evident by their strength in the latest battle.

In conclusion, I feel Paul would ideally perform almost as well as Ash would in the Master Class Tournament.
The reason I say "almost" is because, outside of the MC Plot Armor, I think Ash has the edge over Paul, due to his highly unconventional out-of-the-box bizarre strategies that he ends up using during his battles.

I think this gives Ash a small advantage even over the other Master Class Contentants who we can assume are highly strategic and technical themselves (At least most of them).
 

SkyBlaze9125

Well-Known Member
Actually Paul (who likely to take either Alain or Iris place) is likely going to get too fed to Leon or Cynthia.

If it like the Leon’s battle; Paul fans is likely gonna complain that they ruined Paul or something.

With Cynthia, I suppose they could say Paul manage to push Cynthia and how proud they are. Maybe there gonna be flashbacks to their first battle?

P.S. Iris is not a Dragon Master (she trying to become one) so get your facts straight before saying anything.
 

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
The biggest question mark for me is whether he has access to a gimmick or not. For the sake of argument, I’ll assume he doesn’t.

First of, I don’t think he’d perform as well as Ash. We don’t know about Paul’s post DP feats, but he is “merely” an aspiring gym leader. Ash will defeat Cynthia, the champion of Paul’s region, in the semi finals. If Paul was on Ash’s level, than he would hold a higher position rather than gym leader.

I also think he’s weaker than former world champion Lance due to Lance having higher feats. This leaves Alain, Iris, Steven and Diantha (since Leon is obviously stronger).

Alain was at least E4 level in XYZ, and is on champion level right now despite not being his native region’s champion. He likely is weaker than Diantha for that reason. This seems like a good place to scale Paul.

Diantha is likely stronger, though her Leon battle will show that.

I thought Iris would be stronger than him for being in the M8, but considering that Paul didn’t even participate in this tournament - and due to the arguments presented by @PokemonBattleFanatic- - I think he has to be stronger than her.

In conclusion, I think he’s close to or around Alain‘s level. A very strong trainer that falls just short of his native region’s champion, but has surpassed the E4 of his region (with Alain we have proof because Drasna is no M8 member, with Paul it has to be assumed since Iris likely knocked out Flint, and Paul is likely stronger than her).
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
Actually Paul (who likely to take either Alain or Iris place) is likely going to get too fed to Leon or Cynthia.

If it like the Leon’s battle; Paul fans is likely gonna complain that they ruined Paul or something.
That wasn't really the point. What is being compared is how the Paul we saw in the last episode, would objectively fair in the Master Class (Based on the level of strength of the Champions we see here).

It's obvious Paul would end up being fodder to someone more important like Leon/Cynthia for Ash, but that's besides the point.

With Cynthia, I suppose they could say Paul manage to push Cynthia and how proud they are. Maybe there gonna be flashbacks to their first battle?

P.S. Iris is not a Dragon Master (she trying to become one) so get your facts straight before saying anything.
Iris is among the Top 8 strongest trainers in the world and also her Regions Champion. Outside of Lance, there really isn't any other trainer here focused on Dragon Types (There's Raihan who's out of the Master Class). So even if she's weaker than Lance, still being among the Top 2 Dragon-type trainers in the world does make her a Dragon Master.
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
First of, I don’t think he’d perform as well as Ash. We don’t know about Paul’s post DP feats, but he is “merely” an aspiring gym leader. Ash will defeat Cynthia, the champion of Paul’s region, in the semi finals. If Paul was on Ash’s level, than he would hold a higher position rather than gym leader.
I disagree with this point. Dismissing Paul "merely" as an aspring gym leader makes no sense. Raihan himself is a Gym Leader, yet he was in the Master's class and was also considered Leon's Rival.

Secondly, we aren't looking at DP feats anymore as Ash and Paul are much stronger than they were back there. We are scaling Paul's strength based on his recent performance against Ash before the Master Class.

Simply factoring in achievements as feats wouldn't necessarily do Paul justice. The way I see it, he was capable of holding his own and also giving trouble to Master Class Ash (Who would more or less be forcing Steven to go all out in the upcoming battle).
I mean sure, you could argue Ash wasn't necessarily going all out, but you could just as much argue the same for Paul.

So taking this into consideration, I think Paul would be much serious of a threat, one can't easily dismiss.
 

SkyBlaze9125

Well-Known Member
No it
That wasn't really the point. What is being compared is how the Paul we saw in the last episode, would objectively fair in the Master Class (Based on the level of strength of the Champions we see here).

It's obvious Paul would end up being fodder to someone more important like Leon/Cynthia for Ash, but that's besides the point.


Iris is among the Top 8 strongest trainers in the world and also her Regions Champion. Outside of Lance, there really isn't any other trainer here focused on Dragon Types (There's Raihan who's out of the Master Class). So even if she's weaker than Lance, still being among the Top 2 Dragon-type trainers in the world does make her a Dragon Master.
about Iris. She not a Dragon master. During her introduction. It is say she is an aspiring Dragon Master so she trying to become one. So get your facts straight.
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
I'm convinced Paul is stronger than at least half the members in the Master Class.
Frankly, I sort of agree. Before the Paul episode, I honestly expected Ash to steamroll through his team (And Paul to be a lot more serious), given how much they have upscaled Ash now. However, after witnessing the actual battle, I think there's more than enough reason to conclude something like this.

No it

about Iris. She not a Dragon master. During her introduction. It is say she is an aspiring Dragon Master so she trying to become one. So get your facts straight.
Can you even read? I'm not going off whatever the announcer said. I am calling her a Dragon Master based on her current position.
iis among the Top 8 Strongest Trainers in the World and also a Regional Champion. Apart from Lance, she's the only other Dragon-type expert at this level. So I don't think it's a big deal to refer to her as Dragon Master.

Since we don't have any objective criteria to determine what exactly a Dragon Master is.

Edit: From what I recall, Drayden is referred to as a Dragon Master. Would be silly not to call Iris one while Drayed is referred to as one.
 

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
I disagree with this point. Dismissing Paul "merely" as an aspring gym leader makes no sense. Raihan himself is a Gym Leader, yet he was in the Master's class and was also considered Leon's Rival.
Oh I think you misunderstood me. The reason I used “” was because I explicitly didn’t want to use the gym leader position as something derogatory. However, a gym leader of Sinnoh wouldn’t be able to defeat Cynthia, a feat that Ash will accomplish. Hence why I mentioned this.
Secondly, we aren't looking at DP feats anymore as Ash and Paul are much stronger than they were back there. We are scaling Paul's strength based on his recent performance against Ash before the Master Class.
I agree that he definitely became stronger. Otherwise, there would be no discussion to begin with.
Simply factoring in achievements as feats wouldn't necessarily do Paul justice. The way I see it, he was capable of holding his own and also giving trouble to Master Class Ash (Who would more or less be forcing Steven to go all out in the upcoming battle).
I mean sure, you could argue Ash wasn't necessarily going all out, but you could just as much argue the same for Paul.

So taking this into consideration, I think Paul would be much serious of a threat, one can't easily dismiss.

Like I said, I definitely agree that Paul would be a Masters 8 participant. I just think he isn’t on the same level as Ash anymore. Scaling him to Alain would make more sense, and would mean he is around the same level as the 6th strongest trainer in the world.

Considering that he fought the same team Raihan faced, I would say he is at least as strong as Raihan, who is confirmed to be on champion level too.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
Paul can take on Iris and Alain no problem, nobody can convince me otherwise
 

Tabasco Boshi

★★★★★
He's stronger than Iris, maybe. Alan is pushing it, but I doubt he's above Lance, Steven,, Diantha or Cynthia
Considering Lance's battle style, I think a strategic trainer like Paul could definitely defeat him. The 4 I was thinking he's avobe are Lance, Diantha, Alain and Iris.

I'm not saying he's miles avobe them, but they'd be even battles where anyone could win.
 

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
Paul can take on Iris and Alain no problem, nobody can convince me otherwise

Would rate him stronger than Iris and around the same level as Alain, for above mentioned reasons. Him not possessing any gimmicks could be his downfall against Alain though.
 

SkyBlaze9125

Well-Known Member
Frankly, I sort of agree. Before the Paul episode, I honestly expected Ash to steamroll through his team (And Paul to be a lot more serious), given how much they have upscaled Ash now. However, after witnessing the actual battle, I think there's more than enough reason to conclude something like this.


Can you even read? I'm not going off whatever the announcer said. I am calling her a Dragon Master based on her current position.
iis among the Top 8 Strongest Trainers in the World and also a Regional Champion. Apart from Lance, she's the only other Dragon-type expert at this level. So I don't think it's a big deal to refer to her as Dragon Master.

Since we don't have any objective criteria to determine what exactly a Dragon Master is.

Edit: From what I recall, Drayden is referred to as a Dragon Master. Would be silly not to call Iris one while Drayed is referred to as one.
Agree to disagree. Iris is NOT a Dragon Master. She trying to become one. If you rewatch ep 65, Iris say she have a long way to go of becoming a Dragon Master even though she Champion now.

And even now, Iris is refer to as an Aspiring Dragon Master.

P.S. not really sure why I’m arguing with you over this when it has nothing to do with the main topic.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Based on what we saw from him vs Ash - Higher than Iris,his Garchomp defeated Dragonite

Factoring in his battle with Ash being "training" and him not going all out - On Alain's level,Paul usually plans ahead for his battles and formulates strategies,we didn't see that against his recent battle with Ash.We also didn't see his Torterra/Electivire in action and I believe both are stronger than Garchomp.

Paul already has the advantage over Alain in skill,I can also throw in team depth as he has a bigger roster of powerful pokemon than Alain so it would be wise of Paul to use his strongest ones.Giving him Z-Move,Dynamax or Mega Evolution would make it even harder for Alain.

I honestly think he should be on Ash's level currently since he is still an active trainer who continued to get stronger.Ash wasn't even using his reserves in JN while Paul is always using them.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
In conclusion, I feel Paul would ideally perform almost as well as Ash would in the Master Class Tournament.
The reason I say "almost" is because, outside of the MC Plot Armor, I think Ash has the edge over Paul, due to his highly unconventional out-of-the-box bizarre strategies that he ends up using during his battles.
Take away plot armor and Paul beats Ash at the Sinnoh League.
I think this gives Ash a small advantage even over the other Master Class Contentants who we can assume are highly strategic and technical themselves (At least most of them).
Paul is more strategic than all of them until proven otherwise,the champions always rely on brute force to win.
 

JustAStatistic

Super Casual Trainer
I'd put him (and Raihan) on the same level as Iris and Alain. They all decisively lose to Leon and would face an uphill battle against the other Champions, likely needing to use strategies or plot power to win.
 
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