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Paul's Electivire vs Paul's Torterra (Which is stronger?)

Discussion in 'Animé Polls' started by PokemonBattleFanatic-, Jun 2, 2018.

?

Which Juggernaut is Paul's strongest?

This poll will close on Feb 2, 2019 at 5:19 PM.
  1. Electivire

  2. Torterra

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Paul/Shinji Fan

    Electivire

    Moveset



      • Thunder
      • Brick Break
      • Protect
      • Thunder Punch
    Ability


      • Motor Drive
    --------------------------------------------
    Torterra

    Moveset



      • Stone Edge
      • Frenzy Plant
      • Crunch
      • Giga Drain
    Ability



      • Overgrow or Shell Armor

    Personally I think it's Torterra,it's Paul's very first pokemon and it has way more experience than Electivire and excluding the Garchomp battle it was never pushed to the brink of losing or activating it's ability.Ash has never defeated it in battle nor has anyone else on screen outside of the Sinnoh Champion Cynthia.

    What I'd say Electivire edges Torterra in is versatility.It's faster,can block attacks,can use it's tail on the battlefield for Thunder or to wrap around it's opponent.Can use Thunder as a counter shield and use the move Protect to take little to no damage.
     
  2. Genaller

    Genaller Just don’t care about SM anymore

    Motordrive Electivire > Torterra > Electivire.
     
  3. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Paul/Shinji Fan

    So you have Motor Drive Electivire over Torterra with it's ability activated as well?All it gets is a speed boost,Torterra in it's base form is still stronger.
     
  4. Genaller

    Genaller Just don’t care about SM anymore

    Honestly I’m just being nice. Electivire neg diffed Barry’s Empoleon whereas Torterra was made to pant by Ash’s pre-training Gliscor. I understand that Paul deliberately let Torterra take attacks, but if Torterra is really supposed to be Paul’s strongest, then Gliscor’s attacks shouldn’t have made Torterra pant especially after using Giga Drain to heal. From Charizard vs Dusclops we know that a Pokémon can be panting while having health as high as approx 60%, so let’s give Torterra the benefit of the doubt and say it was around there; it’s still very jarring that pre-training Gliscor could push Torterra that far (once again even after Torterra healed with Giga Drain). At the very least it’s blatantly obvious that regardless of what Paul did, Torterra definitely wouldn’t have fodderized pre-training Gliscor the way Electivire fodderized Barry’s Empoleon. Also believe it or not speed is a very important stat; Electivire’s speed amp from Motordrive is just as significant as Ursaring’s power amp from Guts IMHO.
     
  5. nickdt

    nickdt Well-Known Member

    Electivire > Drapion > Torterra.
     
    Genaller likes this.
  6. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja I'm a Diginerd now!!!

    I personally think Paul's Electivire is stronger than Paul's Torterra, and it's Paul strongest Pokemon based on on-screen feats and depiction, and these are my arguements behind it:

    Assessing Paul's Electivire's feats:
    Paul's Electivire is the Pokemon which deserves the claim of being Paul's strongest based on on-screen feats and depiction. It was portrayed as Paul's ace throughout the League and was Paul's ace and his last Pokemon in the rivalry climax high stakes battle between Ash and Paul in the Sinnoh League (and due to that it automatically makes a lot of narrative sense for Electivire to be Paul's strongest Pokemon).

    Electivire starred in Paul's battle against Barry, demolishing Barry's ace Empoleon (who is a High Tier 2 calibre opponent) without even breaking a sweat even after Torrent activated.

    In the battle against Ash, Electivire quite easily finished off Gliscor and Pikachu without taking much damage in the process (yeah, it can be argued that Pikachu and Gliscor were both significantly damaged, but considering how easily Electivire finished off both of them, it's pretty much evident that Pikachu an Gliscor would have still definitely lost even if they were at full health; matter of fact how effortlessly Electivire blocked Gliscor's Giga Impact with its bare handswithout even breaking a sweat pretty much makes it pretty much evident).

    After defeating Gliscor and Pikachu, Electivire battled Ash's Infernape, and nearly defeated it almost pushing it to the brink of loosing, before Blaze activated and turned things around. Yeah, we can argue that Infernape was a bit more damaged and poisoned too, but from what we saw, it's undeniable that Electivire would've won the battle very convincingly if Blaze didn't activate: Electivire was standing pretty strong when Infernape was literally down. With Blaze, Infernape managed to overpower and overwhelm Electivire, but it's pretty much evident that even in a normal scenario, without Blaze, Infernape stands no chance of beating Motordrive activated Electivire.

    If Electivire doesn't have Motordrive activated, Infernape concievably can beat Electivire, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance either way.
    Assessing Paul's Torterra's feats
    All Paul's Torterra did was getting demolished by Cynthia's Garchomp, where it could only hurt Garchomp while it was immobilised after using Giga Impact, after which Garchomp no sold Frenzy Plant and proceeded to one-shot Torterra with Brick Break, beat Brock's Croagunk and Holly's Farfetch'd(hardly impressive feats considering both Brock and Holly are both more breeders than trainers), and took significant damage from pre-training Gliscor (which was pretty average) before being able to beat it.

    So as we see, Paul's Electivire and Drapion both have quite more impressive feats than his Torterra on-screen.

    If anything, based on on-screen feats, Electivire is the only one who deserves the claim of being Paul's strongest Pokemon. Electivire was portrayed as Paul's ace Pokemon throughout the Sinnoh League and was used as Paul's ace and final Pokemon in the rivalry climax battle between Ash and Paul. Narratively makes a lot of sense Electivire is Paul's strongest Pokemon, as it was portrayed as Paul's ace throughout the League and the rivalry climax battle between Ash and Paul, which was a battle of really high stakes.

    Paul's Torterra is just a bit too overrated purely based on assumption, it lacks that many quality on-screen feats compared to some of Paul's other powerhouses like Electivire and Drapion. Yes, it was very likely Paul's strongest at the start of DP, and has 4 regions of experience, but that doesn't anyhow mean that it remained Paul's strongest at the end of DP, considering Paul got some of his major powerhouses after coming to Sinnoh and relied more on those powerhouses at the end of DP compared to Torterra (could be the reason Torterra barely even appeared at the end of DP).

    Direct comparison between Paul's Electivire and Paul's Torterra where Electivire clearly seems to the stronger Pokemon
    Electivire through feats, bears even a direct claim of being his strongest compared to Torterra. Like, Electivire demolished Barry's Empoleon (a High Tier 2 calibre mon), with negligible difficulty, even after Empoleon's Torrent ability Torrent activated, while Torterra took significant damage from pre-training Gliscor (who wasn't that much good either), and was panting.

    And that's gives pretty much a clear idea about who is the stronger Pokemon among the two.


    Supplementary arguement:
    Torterra is Paul's starter and has been along with Paul since the start of his journey, but as we know, one's starter doesn't necessarily have to be one's strongest all the time. Like we saw with say, Dawn's Piplup. True, it definitely has 4 regions of cumulative experience, and was very likely Paul's strongest at the start of DP, but as evident from the Bulbasaur and Squirtle examples(they aren't stronger than Sceptile and Greninja obviously), that more experience =/= more stronger, as different Pokemon has different potential than each other, a certain Pokemon can become more stronger in a short period of time, like say, Infernape and Greninja. After coming to Sinnoh, Paul got a massive power boost as a trainer and acquired majority of his powerhouses there. And as the end of DP approached, Torterra started appearing less, and Paul relied more on those powerhouses at that time compared to Torterra. At the time of the SL, we barely even saw Torterra appearing while Paul's Electivire was portrayed as his ace throughout the League, including the rivalry climax battle between Ash and Paul. That clearly says a lot.

    Conclusion
    Overall, in conclusion, Paul's Torterra is Paul's starter, was very likely his strongest at the start of DP, has 4 regions of experience, so it's still very likely one of Paul's major powerhouses at the end of DP, I'd even say his second most strongest as well on the account of its earlier regional experiences and being his main powerhouse+starter at the start of DP as well. But with how Paul got a major power boost after coming to Sinnoh, acquired majority of his powerhouses after coming to Sinnoh, and started relying more on those powerhouses at the end of DP/Sinnoh, at a time when Torterra barely even appeared, the claim that Torterra remained Paul's strongest at the end of Sinnoh, doesn't hold much water. Especially when considering that Electivire was portrayed as Paul's ace through the importrant phase that is the Sinnoh League, his main powerhouse upon which Paul relied throughout the League, even in the rivalry culmination battle between Ash and Paul in the Sinnoh League, which was battle of really high stakes(which means from the narrative point of view it makes a lot of sense for Electivire to be Paul's strongest), and ended up having the best feats among all of Paul's Pokemon overall, including his Torterra.

    So assessing all these things, I'll say that Paul's strongest Pokemon as of the end of DP is his Electivire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  7. Genaller

    Genaller Just don’t care about SM anymore

    Yeah so I did this poll in amino regarding who is Paul’s strongest Pokémon and the results so far are:

    - Electivire: 30
    - Torterra: 8
    - Drapion: 4
    - Ursarimg: 4
    - Other: 0

    So Electivire is winning that by a landslide, and since way more people voted on that poll then the 1 above, the result of the above poll is rented worthless :).
     
  8. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Paul/Shinji Fan

    So the reasons I keep seeing as to why Electivire is stronger than Torterra is mainly because it had more screen time and it was used against Ash at the sinnoh league and fought Infernape.

    I fail to see how this makes Electivire stronger because it never demonstrated anything in that battle that showed it was stronger than Torterra other than having a speed advantage and showing versatility like using Thunder on the battlefield and the counter shield strategy.
     
  9. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Paul/Shinji Fan

  10. Genaller

    Genaller Just don’t care about SM anymore

  11. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Paul/Shinji Fan

    Yeah you keep changing your opinions and rankings with Paul's pokemon,it's pretty much like the flavor of the month with you.
     
  12. Genaller

    Genaller Just don’t care about SM anymore

    Not really. I initially made the assumption that Torterra = Peakachu based on the fact that Paul and Ash were equally skilled trainers, and hence would have equally strong starters. Reconsidering the pre-training Gliscor feat (thanks to 345a-g) made me drop that assumption and adjust my rating accordingly (Torterra now wouldn’t even be better than overall Infernape; never mind Peakachu). For Elecitivre I reconsidered its Empoleon feat or rather how it makes 0 sense to have Elecitivre only 2 sub tiers ahead of Empoleon despite fodderizing it neg diff , and so I adjusted my rating accordingly. At worst you could say I have a “flavor of the year” based on how many times I’ve made a major change in my views for each (all of once!) as well as how long I’ve been here.

    Anyways the poll you cited retroactively now has the result Electivire 21 votes > Torterra 20 votes meaning that you just showed that even over here Elecitivre would have the edge over Torterra :D.
     
  13. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Paul/Shinji Fan

    So you were brainwashed by your friend 345ash-greninja,okay then.

    The way I see it Paul's Torterra is the combination of Ash's Pikachu/Ash's Charizard

    It's Paul's starter,traveled with him to every region (Pikachu),is fully evolved and went through rigorous training (Charizard)

    Or you could look at it as just Paul's Torterra being like Ash's Pikachu done right in the sense that it's fully evolved,went through lot of training,and doesn't reset.
     
  14. Genaller

    Genaller Just don’t care about SM anymore

    Actually I was first brainwashed by Navin since if you look at that thread he was the 1 who brought up the Torterra ~ Charizard/Peakachu comparison. 345a-g made me see the light :)!

    And yet would still be below Ash’s Infernape and arguably even his Sceptile.

    And yet is still made to pant against pre-training Gliscor :p!

    Anyways that poll just further supports that Electivire (21) > Torterra (20) since I’m now on team Electivire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  15. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Paul/Shinji Fan

    The same guy that you were debating hard with involving XY/AG,interesting.
    Give me the link to that poll from amino
     
  16. Genaller

    Genaller Just don’t care about SM anymore

    The irony was that I actually thought he was a fairly reasonable guy before I started debating him. That poll was in May 2016 when I had just joined here I didn’t start posting until August 2016. Speaking of which I think the Alain vs Paul (August 2016) thread was where we had our first major debate.

    http://aminoapps.com/p/juzh09Who Is Paul’s Strongest Pokemon?
     
  17. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    Torterra may be Paul's starter but we didn't get to see a whole lot of him.
    Electivre is the technical winner as we've seen more than enough, and he is basically Paul's signature Pokemon. I'd consider Electivre as Paul's powerhouse for Sinnoh, much like Ash has Charizard, Heracross, Sceptile, Infernape, Krookodile, and Greninja. Not to downplay Torterra but he's kind of forgettable compared to Paul's other Pokemon, when most people think of Paul Electivre is probably the first thing that comes to mind with Ursaring probably second
     
  18. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja I'm a Diginerd now!!!

    Ash's Pikachu done right in the sense based on what? A Pokemon which doesn't even have half the feats Ash's Pikachu has so far displayed in the anime? Whose on-screen feats are basically: getting demolished by Cynthia's Garchomp, the where it could only hurt Garchomp when it was immobilized, after which Garchomp easily no-sold Torterra Frenzy Pant and proceeded to brutally one-shot it? Defeating Brock's Croagunk and Holly's Farfetch'd, Pokemon of 2 trainers who were more breeders than battlers? Defeating pre-training Gliscor whilst taking significant damage which made it pant in the process?

    Yeah, it'd take a lot more than these feats from Torterra to call it Ash's Pikachu done in the right sense, who has left a legacy of defeating plenty and plenty of epic strong opponents like Legendaries, Psuedo Legendaries, Mega Evolved Pokemon, Ultra Beasts, taking down 2-3 Pokemon in League battles, etc. etc.
     
  19. Genaller

    Genaller Just don’t care about SM anymore

    To be fair he said “Pikachu” not “Peakachu”/“Haxachu”. At the very least Paul’s Torterra isn’t loosing to a noob Snivy or struggling against a noob Chikorita or getting outperformed by Serena’s flipping Sylveon. Any starter with multi-regional expereince that doesn’t have Pikachu’s BS inconsistent writing can probably take the claim of “Pikachu done right” (though definitely not Peakachu done right).
     
  20. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Paul/Shinji Fan

    It's fully evolved,went through hard training,and doesn't reset.
    What feats are you speaking of?
    Pikachu isn't defeating Garchomp either so this was a bad example to use.
    Yeah and?
    Yeah and?
    You're speaking of Haxachu,not Pikachu.Torterra is Pikachu done right
     

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