Pedophilia

[OldManJenkins]

No, that's not my point and I'm not sure how you got that because I didn't even mention it. In fact, pedophilia isn't something people are born with - like most fetishes, it's psychological, meaning an individual developed this fetish over time, often due to personal experiences. Homosexuality, however, is an orientation, which is something you are born with.

We can see the proof for this because homosexuality has genetic causes and those genes have clear effects, which we've known and have been studying for awhile.

Pedophilia does not have biological causes. As explained in the Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders,


The scientific community is in agreement over this, so if you think they're wrong, you'll need the proof to back up any more claims.




I don't think you understood the part where I said "big difference" and "huge difference." The difference between consensual sex and what is essentially rape is enormous. That's not "almost the same." The difference between homosexual sex VS adult/child sex is exactly the same difference between heterosexual sex and adult/child sex, which you must realize is a huge difference. (Again, it's the difference between you having nice, consensual sex with a girl VS being anally raped with a dildo.) The only difference between consensual heterosexual sex and consensual homosexual sex in your mind is that you think one is cool and the other is "icky." But they are both consensual, and thus automatically drastically different from adult/child sex.



Please define "physical attraction" and explain what makes it different from any other kind of attraction, because that's not a scientific term.

And we're not just talking about what society thinks of homosexuality VS pedophilia - the scientific and medical fields are in agreement that one is a sexual orientation and the other one isn't. If you disagree, you'll need to back it up with proof saying why all these scientists and doctors are wrong and you're right.

~Psychic

Edit: And seriously, please do take a look at some of the links provided. I'd much rather have this discussion with someone who's informed.

We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose. I understood what you meant with "huge difference" but in my mind they are the same thing except for that difference, however big it is. Im not saying its not big. I think either people are born pedophiles and born homos or that they become pedophiles and become homos. And I dont have to think something just because the "scientific community" does. Im not a scientist and I dont give a **** what scientists say. And I dont have to provide "scientific evidence" to support my claim. And also btw sometimes sex between an adult and child is consensual.

 

[Aegon]

I group Homosexuality, Pedophilia, animal "love", "love" of inanimate objects(yeah they have that), all other fetishes, and liking women based on hair color etc together. They are all sexual attractions these people were supposedly born with.

I take it you also include heterosexuality in that group.

We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose. I understood what you meant with "huge difference" but in my mind they are the same thing except for that difference, however big it is. Im not saying its not big. I think either people are born pedophiles and born homos or that they become pedophiles and become homos. And I dont have to think something just because the "scientific community" does. Im not a scientist and I dont give a **** what scientists say. And I dont have to provide "scientific evidence" to support my claim. And also btw sometimes sex between an adult and child is consensual.

...

 

[OldManJenkins]

I take it you also include heterosexuality in that group.

Sure, why not.

 

[Kaiserin]

I understood what you meant with "huge difference" but in my mind they are the same thing except for that difference, however big it is.

...You're contradicting yourself pretty spectacularly, so let me try this from a different angle. How about you explain why you think they're the same? I'm not seeing how you're drawing this conclusion, probably because you've been really vague about how exactly they're the same to you.

I think either people are born pedophiles and born homos or that they become pedophiles and become homos.

Pick one. You don't get to have both, unless you're going with "people are born one way, but their sexuality and fetishes are fluid." And somehow, I suspect that's not what you were getting at.

And I dont have to think something just because the "scientific community" does. Im not a scientist and I dont give a **** what scientists say. And I dont have to provide "scientific evidence" to support my claim. And also btw sometimes sex between an adult and child is consensual.

Then clearly, you don't belong in a debate forum, yes? True, you don't have to provide evidence in the sense that no one's going to come up at gunpoint and make you prowl through the internet to find proof of what you're saying, but in refusing to do so, you're going to make yourself look like a goddamn fool as you proclaim "science is **** and scientists are full of crap!" in one breath, and "I don't need to prove to any of you with quote-scientific evidence-unquote that what I'm saying is right, it just is!" in the next.

 

[Lulu_used_SunnyDay]

We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose. I understood what you meant with "huge difference" but in my mind they are the same thing except for that difference, however big it is. Im not saying its not big. I think either people are born pedophiles and born homos or that they become pedophiles and become homos. And I dont have to think something just because the "scientific community" does. Im not a scientist and I dont give a **** what scientists say. And I dont have to provide "scientific evidence" to support my claim. And also btw sometimes sex between an adult and child is consensual.

Wow, just wow. You claim you know better than the scientific community? Or are you just denying all that science has to say on the matter? Either way, that's very stupid of you.

"Im not a scientist and I dont give a **** what scientists say. And I dont have to provide "scientific evidence" to support my claim."
Right because you're not a scientist, you should at least listen to what others that know more than you do have to say. And saying you don't need evidence to support your claim is like saying all you have to do to show us your reasons is believe hard enough in them. Well guess what, this isn't how you're supposed to have a decent debate.

And also btw sometimes sex between an adult and child is consensual
Sure, a child may say "ok" to you asking for sex, if you can word it in a way that hides or pictures in another way what you're effectively trying to do with him/her. The point is, a child is, by definition, unable to judge and make a decision regarding something he/she cannot fully understand, for their body isn't prepared for it.

 

[Steampunk]

We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose. I understood what you meant with "huge difference" but in my mind they are the same thing except for that difference, however big it is. Im not saying its not big. I think either people are born pedophiles and born homos or that they become pedophiles and become homos. And I dont have to think something just because the "scientific community" does. Im not a scientist and I dont give a **** what scientists say. And I dont have to provide "scientific evidence" to support my claim. And also btw sometimes sex between an adult and child is consensual.

while i admit i dont usualy think that scientists got it right...but i value their opinion.
as for the rest:
i do think that yes you do have a choice about being gay.
so many people underestimate the power of human will.
a have seen many people that through pure will made themselves gay/straight.
granted not many people want to change.
as for pedopillia...i dont think that people are born that way...their circumstances growing up have proven to be a factor, and (yes i said it) genetics...i do think that genetics can increase the likelihood of someones prefered "orientation"

 

[Lulu_used_SunnyDay]

i do think that yes you do have a choice about being gay.
so many people underestimate the power of human will.
a have seen many people that through pure will made themselves gay/straight.

I'm sorry to tell you pal, but science has proved the exact opposite. The only way anyone could deny his/her sexual orientation is with a complete abstinence. And that doesn't exactly count as changing your orientation.

I do think though that pedophilia is different. It's likely only linked to psychologic issues. I mean, one thing is to be attracted by a person of your same sex, another is to be attracted to someone who isn't sexually mature.

 

[Sadib]

I do think though that pedophilia is different. It's likely only linked to psychologic issues. I mean, one thing is to be attracted by a person of your same sex, another is to be attracted to someone who isn't sexually mature.

I could use your logic to say that pedophilia is different from homosexuality. Men are attracted to young girls, because they have lady parts. Men can't be attracted to other men, because men don't have lady parts.

 

[Steampunk]

I'm sorry to tell you pal, but science has proved the exact opposite. The only way anyone could deny his/her sexual orientation is with a complete abstinence. And that doesn't exactly count as changing your orientation.

*OBJECTION!*

(sorry, I play way to much ace attorney)
*slams hands on the table*
where is your evidence?
Present it for all of us to see.
I have more cards left to play on this subject…do you?

And back on the subject of this thread.
In the ace attorney games phoenix is 7 years older than maya.
Technically that would make him a pedophile (being 26 and Maya being 19, if I’m not mistaken)
But there is a line where a person becomes mature enough to decide wether or not they want to be with someone older.

 

[Psychic]

while i admit i dont usualy think that scientists got it right...but i value their opinion.

So then who did "get it right"? Are you suggesting that you somehow know better than all the scientists, doctors, and actual gay people? If they don't know, who does?

Anyhow, it really seems that few people have anything to say about pedophilia in and of itself (especially without confusing it with hebephilia and ephebophilia). If everyone can't stay on topic, I am ready to close this thread.

It really doesn't seem like there's much else to say at this point, especially considering the same mistakes are being made and half the recent discussion belongs in the Homosexuality thread. This has been...special.

~Psychic

 

[Celestial Moth]

I posted awhile ago in this topic, since then though things have indeed turned in an odd direction.


Their can be links through the logical means between pedophilia and other sexual attractions.
But on that note, when linking lets say pedophilia to homosexuality for example it does degrade
the men or women who have finally started to earn respect they deserve.

Though the point still stands that through genetic and general mutations of the brain through
the normal progressive nature of evolution within humans, that, theirs nothing abnormal with
any sexual attractions between human beings. Though sexual orientation is somewhat relevant to this subject,
pedophiles unlike all other people who are sexually attracted to something, are less understood because of the
understandable moral views in society.

But if you research pedophilia,properly. Or you simple understand the reasoning behind it. It's easy to see that even though the attraction
in itself may be disturbing because of ("a") or ("b") , its a simple attraction cause by the normal mutations of the human cognitive processes.

 

[Sadib]

I don't think there's a point in looking for an explanation for pedophilia. There really isn't an explanation for homosexuality.

 

[Kaiserin]

I don't think there's a point in looking for an explanation for pedophilia. There really isn't an explanation for homosexuality.

There isn't an explanation for any other fetish, either. Maybe you have the standard reproduction explanation for heterosexuality, but outside of that, it just is. So yeah.

Personally, I feel like "normal mutations" is a bit of an oxymoron in this case. Mutations in and of themselves don't imply abnormality, but... we're talking about something that, if theoretically allowed to be acted on freely, would do a hell of a lot of psychological damage to any poor kid who gets to be on the receiving end of it. There's really no two ways around that.

 

[Lulu_used_SunnyDay]

*OBJECTION!*

(sorry, I play way to much ace attorney)
*slams hands on the table*

lol it's ok, I do too Cx

where is your evidence?
Present it for all of us to see.
I have more cards left to play on this subject…do you?

I believe we've been already discussing about this on another thread. You told me about your supposed "change", but at the same time I'd also like to hear from you some actual proof that a real change is at all possible (except, with all due respect, the "I went for it myself" one, as for all I know you could have made that up- NOT saying that you have, but....I think you get the point. God why do I always have to sound offensive. I really don't mean to xC ). Especially since many people from these....uh, "conversion" groups themselves claim that they're only trying to control gay people's sexual behaviour.

In the ace attorney games phoenix is 7 years older than maya.
Technically that would make him a pedophile (being 26 and Maya being 19, if I’m not mistaken)
But there is a line where a person becomes mature enough to decide wether or not they want to be with someone older.

OBJECTION!!!

Phoenix being much older than Maya does not make him a pedophile, not only because he has no romantic interest in her whatsoever, but also because, as you said, Maya is 19. She's not only sexually mature, but also legally an adult. Her boyfriend could even be 70 and still not be considered a pedophile because, well, Maya isn't what an ancient greek would call a paedo (a child).

And even if she was only 17 (meaning: not yet legally an adult), if she had sex with an adult, that action would be defined "statutory rape", wich has nothing to do with pedophilia. Pedophilia is about sexually developed individuals trying to have sex with pre-pubescent children. The "line" you mentioned, wich I think is the age of consent, varies from one country's law to another but is generally nowhere under 13. Why? Because there's no way kids are both sexually developed AND aware enough about their body/the full implications of sexual activity and relationships below that age. ( I believe the most outstanding exception to this rule is the Vatican, where I think the age of consent is -hold on to your seat- 9. GUESS WHY.)

 

[Sadib]

Wikipedia's Age of Consent article has a nifty picture of all the countries with their respective age of consent. Where should I go for spring break?

 

[CptDrDigi]

It is a proven fact that the frontal lobe, the part of the brain that determines decisions and dangers and all that fun stuff that starts with a D, doesn't reach full maturity until the early twenties. In fact, I believe that I read an article somewhere about the lack of frontal lobe maturity being a leading reason in teen-aged drivers and their car accidents. Basically, if a sixteen year old, or hell, even an eighteen year old, both regarded as full steps of maturity, and in some places adults, have problems with judging curves in the road, how could a seven or an eight year old determine that they wish to have sex?

Now I know some pedophiles, just enjoy the sight of children, but guys and girls, it isn't acceptable, at least in western civilization. If you wanna do somethings that aren't sfw or even sfc, just meet a someone who's petite and of age, I mean, it's just a way of having fun without having to go to jail and having someone have fun with you.

 

[Recon]

It is a proven fact that the frontal lobe, the part of the brain that determines decisions and dangers and all that fun stuff that starts with a D, doesn't reach full maturity until the early twenties. In fact, I believe that I read an article somewhere about the lack of frontal lobe maturity being a leading reason in teen-aged drivers and their car accidents. Basically, if a sixteen year old, or hell, even an eighteen year old, both regarded as full steps of maturity, and in some places adults, have problems with judging curves in the road, how could a seven or an eight year old determine that they wish to have sex?

Now I know some pedophiles, just enjoy the sight of children, but guys and girls, it isn't acceptable, at least in western civilization. If you wanna do somethings that aren't sfw or even sfc, just meet a someone who's petite and of age, I mean, it's just a way of having fun without having to go to jail and having someone have fun with you.

However, you do have those really obstinate people who will do it, not caring for the consequences.

That being said, if pedophilia was to be legalized, I could see several, if not many, problems arising because of it. However, I don't think it should be completely outlawed either, as pedophilia is a choice, albeit harmful. Honestly, I think what we're doing now is probably the best course of action, though maybe add and remove a couple clauses, make it more specific.

 

[Steampunk]

lol it's ok, I do too Cx


I believe we've been already discussing about this on another thread. You told me about your supposed "change", but at the same time I'd also like to hear from you some actual proof that a real change is at all possible (except, with all due respect, the "I went for it myself" one, as for all I know you could have made that up- NOT saying that you have, but....I think you get the point. God why do I always have to sound offensive. I really don't mean to xC ). Especially since many people from these....uh, "conversion" groups themselves claim that they're only trying to control gay people's sexual behaviour.



OBJECTION!!!

Phoenix being much older than Maya does not make him a pedophile, not only because he has no romantic interest in her whatsoever, but also because, as you said, Maya is 19. She's not only sexually mature, but also legally an adult. Her boyfriend could even be 70 and still not be considered a pedophile because, well, Maya isn't what an ancient greek would call a paedo (a child).

And even if she was only 17 (meaning: not yet legally an adult), if she had sex with an adult, that action would be defined "statutory rape", wich has nothing to do with pedophilia. Pedophilia is about sexually developed individuals trying to have sex with pre-pubescent children. The "line" you mentioned, wich I think is the age of consent, varies from one country's law to another but is generally nowhere under 13. Why? Because there's no way kids are both sexually developed AND aware enough about their body/the full implications of sexual activity and relationships below that age. ( I believe the most outstanding exception to this rule is the Vatican, where I think the age of consent is -hold on to your seat- 9. GUESS WHY.)

i corrected the phoenix/maya thing but psychic deleted it XD (i am assuming that she counted it as spam)

and dont worry it dosnt sound offensive (ive heard a lot worse)

and i agree with the sexually mature things. about how children cant be expected to make adult decisions.

 

[Lulu_used_SunnyDay]

However, I don't think it should be completely outlawed either, as pedophilia is a choice, albeit harmful.

EXCUSE ME? Even if pedophilia was a choice (wich is very unlikely anyway), you're saying it should be "somewhat" legal? What is the reason behind this? How could adults be justified to harm children? Because they choose to do so?
Please explain O__o

 

[Recon]

EXCUSE ME? Even if pedophilia was a choice (wich is very unlikely anyway), you're saying it should be "somewhat" legal? What is the reason behind this? How could adults be justified to harm children? Because they choose to do so?
Please explain O__o

Did you read the rest of the post? I'm saying that I feel what we're doing now is fine, and I never explicitly stated that I wanted it to be legal. I'm fine with the harsh consequences, though sometimes people make it to be such a big deal, turning it up to eleven and whatnot.