Pidgeot/Butterfree/Primeape

[Ray the Ruler]

Pidgeot: In one episode it proved itself to be much more powerful and useful than any other bird pokemon Ash has ever caught. Not only does it deserve to come back, it would be a huge powerhouse for Ash.

Butterfree: Meh. That Bye Bye Butterfree episode was too epic to be un-done just to bring back a semi-useful pokemon.

Primeape: Sure you could bring it back. Personally I wonder how many P1 Grand Prix it won with Andrew. That is if Andrew's Hitmonchan hasn't already killed it in a jealous rage about getting ditched.

Also I think its best I stay out of the Indigo League was awful discussion. Because to me that season is untouchable, maybe its quality isn't as great compared to the fancy battles of today and now every pokemon needs gratuitous screen time and development. But that season was revolutionary, now with DP everything has a formula and an ideal but it was season 1 that set the ball in motion and began to mold that formula from nothing. The only reason DP exists is because of the roots planted by the 1st season. The season that captured the imagination of millions of children and made them fall in love with three kids that would end up creating a 600 episode dynasty. You can't have a tree if you try to cut out the roots.

 

[thunderblade12]

Pidgeot: In one episode it proved itself to be much more powerful and useful than any other bird pokemon Ash has ever caught. Not only does it deserve to come back, it would be a huge powerhouse for Ash.

By defeating a wild Fearow? And even struggling to do that? I don't doubt that'd be a major powerhouse if it ever returned, but as things stand it's Ash's weakest of the four.

 

[CyberCubed]

People watched Kanto for the humor and characters, not the story or battles.

Kanto was basically Pokemon as a comedy series, and the writers only thought the show would last 1 year.

People are right though, if Kanto was ever re-written, it'd be almost totally changed to something different. I even think Orange Islands would have never happened and Kanto would be extended by another 35 episodes instead.

 

[Ray the Ruler]

By defeating a wild Fearow? And even struggling to do that? I don't doubt that'd be a major powerhouse if it ever returned, but as things stand it's Ash's weakest of the four.

You blind? You must not remember correctly.
It struggled as a Pidgeotto. After it evolved, it carried Ash and Pikachu.(something Noctowl, Swellow and Staraptor would die from if they attempted it) And it flapped its wings three times in the direction of Fearow, sending out bursts of sword-like wind that absolutely ravaged Fearow. Then it just plain rammed into it at top speed, total ownage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3KDuoGNYw

Theres the vid, watch and then come back and tell me Pidgeot is weaker than Ash's other birds.

 

[CyberCubed]

You blind? You must not remember correctly.
It struggled as a Pidgeotto. After it evolved, it carried Ash and Pikachu.(something Noctowl, Swellow and Staraptor would die from if they attempted it) And it flapped its wings three times in the direction of Fearow, sending out bursts of sword-like wind that absolutely ravaged Fearow. Then it just plain rammed into it at top speed, total ownage.

Strong, yes, but Swellow is much more impressive.

 

[Swine Trio]

Strong, yes, but Swellow is much more impressive.

Swellow only looks good because unlike the first two, Ash used it for more than a balloon pop from time to time. If Ash had used it, the evolution would of happened way earlier, and Swellow would be lucky to kiss his feet.

 

[thunderblade12]

I don't care if it slaughter the Fearow. It was a Fearow. And a wild one at that. Not impressive in the least.

Even Gliscor and a wild Staraptor were able to carry Ash. Maybe not on their backs, but they're not large enough for that. Size =/= strength.

If Ash had used it, the evolution would of happened way earlier, and Swellow would be lucky to kiss his feet.

How do we know this? I could just as easily say that if Totodile were used more it wouyld have surpassed Charizard. Blind assumptions of "what could have been" are ridiculous.

 

[Eternal Darkness]

Strong, yes, but Swellow is much more impressive.

Swellow and quite probably Staraptor.

 

[CyberCubed]

Swellow only looks good because unlike the first two, Ash used it for more than a balloon pop from time to time. If Ash had used it, the evolution would of happened way earlier, and Swellow would be lucky to kiss his feet.

If Pidgeot wasn't released, it'd probably become what Bulba/Squirtle/Charizard are, and be treated like Ash's trump cards despite not being that strong in their original region.

I do find it funny how Ash's Kanto team is reunited sans Pidgeot.

 

[Platinum fan.]

I will never understand what was so great about Pidgeot, the only memorable thing I remember it doing is evolving into Pidgeot. It was a good flying Pokemon but people always talking about it coming back...If the writers were going to bring it back I think they would have already. Once Charmander, Bulbasaur, and Squirtle joined the cast the bird was casted aside and rarely used anyway. And we all know how Butterfree ended. But that was back when only starters got screen time.

 

[Seiryu]

Well he didn't per say, abandon him. But promising to come back for it is what Damien essentially had Charmander believe. So they both made a promise, and regardless of their intentions, neither returned. Speaking of which... Damien should have been in the league. If only for Charizard to get revenge. /:

Oh, but of course. And hell yeah that would've been cool. Hell, I was disappointed that we never saw any of Damien's so-called "powerful" pokemon even in that very episode. Like, the two groups were gearing up for this battle, and then--Joy'd. :|

...Not quite sure I understand what you mean there. Pokemon wasn't watched, at least by me and most of my friends back then, because of the plot at all. We loved the games and we loved the TCG. So we loved Pokemon. We watched to see Pokemon, and the plot was just there.

...Yeah, that's kind of exactly what he meant. :v

The battle against Team Rocket was no success IMO. Despite what some of you may think, the trainer commanding the pokemon DOES matter.

Not to mention the actual content of the battle. My memory may be a bit fuzzy on the subject, but didn't it go something like this: Jessie effortlessly defeats Squirtle and Bulbasaur using a...Kingler and something else. Pidgeotto Double Edges Jessie's Rhydon(?). Jessie suddenly panics and she and James send out Arbok and Weezing, thereby breaking her own set rules. Ash responds with Pikachu, electric attack, bang, blast-off, Jessie drops the Earthbadge as they're flying off. I don't recall Ash actually defeating a single pokemon in that match.

I wouldn't say it took until halfway through OI for the battles and such to improve, though. The water-based target shooting and racing of the first gym was always my favorite of those four.

It was less focused on the pokemon advertisement, and more focused on, as someone said, a saturday cartoon feel which is what attracted most of its audience.

Woo, recognition. >..>;;

Although I disagree somewhat about it being less focused on advertisement; how I figure, it was more that all of the advertisement was flung onto one character's team for the most part, and so was maybe less noticeable than in AG or DP.

Swellow only looks good because unlike the first two, Ash used it for more than a balloon pop from time to time. If Ash had used it, the evolution would of happened way earlier, and Swellow would be lucky to kiss his feet.

That'd be awesome if it were true, y'know? It might please you to remember that Pidgeotto was used in two gym "matches": it defeated Misty's Starmie (though exactly how impressive that is is...up for debate) and Double Edged that Rhydon in Viridian, like I mentioned above. Still more than Taillow got for gym matches prior to its evolution, though I must say its humiliating defeats against Brawly's Machop and Drew's Roselia were pretty impressive.

The thing is, though, Taillow was arguably more impressive from its very first appearance than Pidgeotto ever was, what with that whole taking multiple Thunder attacks and still coming after Ash and company thing.

 

[Locormus]

They had more emotional episodes. Pikachu's Goodbye, many, many released pokemon, the first episode, etc. However, part of making a series "emotional" is by having three-dimensional characters that people care about that.

Anything emotional happening with Misty was extremely rare and the only emotion I remember with Team Rocket was their respective backstory episodes.

The relatability and the fantasmatic experience is also something that lead to the romantizing of Kanto.

"Without older movies, your precious new movies wouldn't exist! Therfore Fred Ott's Sneeze is the best movie ever made!!!!"

But let's be honest, if the writers had the chance to write Kanto all over again, they would change most of it, the results would be uncertain, but i'm definitely sure that they would change things like:

- team rocket (the organization and the trio); they would have a plot and better treatment overall, plus Giovanni would have battled Ash probably.
-Gary: they would exploit the rivalry in a much better way than just Gary teasing.
-Gym leaders
-The pokemon league: of course this!

It was the first and a very enjoyable run, a lot of comic relief which i personally miss, but even the writers would reckon they made mistakes that they would change if they could.

But lets keep them fillers, the fillers were so varied in approach in Kanto. The Ghost of Maiden Peak, Island of Giant Pokemon, Surfing Pikachu, Kanghaskhan Kid, there are just so many that everybody remembers

Is it just me or is this thread evolving to a "Kanto isn't as great as they say" thread. Oh well, I like this new topic better than the other one so I'll partake in it.

I agree Sinnoh is the best season and Kanto is the second weakest. However, the thing that is remarkably different is that Kanto had a more entertaining style of writing. It was less focused on the pokemon advertisement, and more focused on, as someone said, a saturday cartoon feel which is what attracted most of its audience.

Though, my favourite episode, does belong to Kanto - the battle for the SS Anne or whatever its called.

edit: Whoops, size typo. Sorry

Completely agree. My favourite is something from Kanto.. Just because of the good memories. Battle for the SS Anne was awesome, Tower of Terror was cool, Pokemopolis was cool, I mean who doesn't love a giant Gengar/Alakazam and Jigglypuff??? And probably my favourite is Ghost of Maiden Peak.

 

[Champion Jared 14]

Swine Trio, I was basically just agreeing with what you were saying.

 

[thunderblade12]

^ True. And why is it that people make things so easy for certain pokemon but are so harsh on others? People actually say Pidgoto defeated Rhydon just because it smacked it in the face.

My rebuttal:
Buizel defeated both Paul's Magmortar and Ursaring
Torterra defeated Bertha's Hippowdon
Pikachu defeated Drake's Shelgon
Sceptile beat Regirock
Torkoal beat Registeel
Charizard defeated Blaziken
Pikachu defeated Tyson's Meowth


They all landed hits, so obviously they all won.

 

[NES]

But lets keep them fillers, the fillers were so varied in approach in Kanto. The Ghost of Maiden Peak, Island of Giant Pokemon, Surfing Pikachu, Kanghaskhan Kid, there are just so many that everybody remembers

Oh of course, ironically Kanto stronger points may be in fact those awesome fillers people talk about in this thread, i love all those mentioned (my favorite episode from all time is "tower of terror"), and i also should mention "princess vs. princess" which is one of the best episodes with Misty imo.

 

[Kdude146]

we will never see the 3 of them again this is what I think happend to them Pidgeot: some guy saw it so he got it in his pokeball
Butterfree: some where in Johto with it's family
Primeape: Ash gave it to that guy so Ash dose not care about it any more

 

[Sparklingwater]

People generally missed Pigeot purely because of how it shown it's overwhelming success with a strong wild fearow. In everyone's mine, they all say "what if...?" Personally I believe the writers made Ash leave pigeot in Kanto because the feel that it was too early for Ash to get a third level bird pokemon. By Sinnoh, they have made up for it with the introduction of Staraptor.

 

[thunderblade12]

And yet it wasn't to early for him to get a (stronger) fully evolved starter like 30 episodes prior.


The reason they released Pidgeot is obvious... It's the same reason they released Butterfree and Primeape. It was the only way they could think of to have Ash capture other pokemon. They had to pave the way for both Snorlax and Lapras.


How epic would it be if they all returned and a few evolutions occurred making this Ash's lineup:

Kanto:
Pikachu
Charizard
Squirtle
Bulbasaur
Tauros
Muk
Kingler
Primeape
Butterfree
Pidgeot
Snorlax
Lapras
Gengar

Johto:
Pikachu
Bayleef
Typhlosion
Feraligatr
Noctowl
Donphan
Heracross
Tyranitar

Hoenn:
Pikachu
Sceptile
Swellow
Crawdaunt
Torkoal
Glalie
Ambipom

Sinnoh:
Pikachu
Torterra
Infernape
Staraptor
Floatzel
Gliscor
Garchomp

That's one League I'd like to watch.

 

[pokemonloverXD]

Pidgeot: some guy saw it so he got it in his pokeball

Yeah, that could happen

 

[darknessprince299]

To those who were talking about the GS ball, isn't it obvious that GS stands for Gold and Silver? It probably contained a Johto Pokemon and then Ash and Misty met Tracey who owns a Marill, a Johto Pokemon. Also, I have a feeling that Primeape will be making his return soon enough. I have a feeling he evolves into Hihidaruma. Which would mean he'll be back before the end of the Sinnoh League or sometime in Isshu. But I read that the first seven Isshu pokemon released would appear in an upcoming episode. So maybe Primeape will be called in to battle and evolve in the process? Just a theory. Also, Pidgeot will hopefully visit Ash when he returns to Pallet after Sinnoh. Maybe everyone will be gathered this time for a big final gathering before Ash, alone with Pikachu, heads to Isshu.