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Piplup, Pansage, and a Meeting of the Times! (747)

Discussion in 'Pokémon Black & White - Rival Destinies' started by Serebii, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. I zoned out watching the episode and didn't even notice this. Although I can't see how a mispronounciation would be enough to make someone angry. :521:
  2. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    He sure doesn't have to but it just seems like he took a major step back in terms of battling and it never ever occurs to him. And then there was his battle against Elesa.
  3. ChrisTheRed

    ChrisTheRed New Member

    One, not angry it's just stupid. It's a first gen pokemon that name has been said right since the first season and now it's something else because they wanna chance things. If they change how they said pikachu you would be livid am I right? They are messing up our childhood with the american bull. Let's put sandwiches where rice balls go or just call rice balls donuts.

    Thank you sir. Yes it's been a long time since I sat down to watch an episode and this is what I hear. Ra-tata. So there is a company worse at dubs then 4kids? Who up for boycotting and getting the rights transfer to funamation!
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2012
  4. Fulgore2005

    Fulgore2005 Member

    I'm sure many would love Funimation getting this, but some of their actors have already appeared for some episodes. Chris Sabat, J Tatum and Leah Clark have acted a character for a few of TPCi's episodes.
  5. Caseydia

    Caseydia Ace Trainer

    What's with your new obsession with how bad TPCi is? Everyone's voice in this episode was alright. If you didn't like Dawn's voice in DP then you wouldn't have liked it in this episode because it sounds exactly the same.
  6. That's very true, and logically we have to think about it. If TPCi was honestly cheap enough to take away the dub from 4Kids (according to Dennis Daniel it was for a measly $2,000) *facepalms*, there's no realistic way they'd hire someone much more costly to dub Pokemon like FUNimation (don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see a new main voice cast from them in some alternate dub, but TPCi is never going to let that happen: they want to be the sole owner for everything Pokemon now, good or bad for the franchise in the fan's eyes- many see it as a bad thing while some see it as a very good thing).

    All I hope TPCi does now is give the following VAs a chance to play some role on Pokemon. They've let a lot of 4Kids VAs back, true, but not the ones most want back altogether, and that's why a lot of people still have trouble with TPCi's dub. I just want these people to get a shot at the least and I'll, personally, be fine with the dub as is:

    - Veronica Taylor (She's said she wants to come back, come on, it's been 7 years, give her a chance to play someone...she's still active in voice over work and recently worked alongside Bill Rogers and Michele Knotz in Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny back in 2009, two of TPCi's main VA pool. I don't understand what grudge they have with Taylor and the bottom two since Blaustein was the absolute worst about the switch objectively, and got to return long ago...)
    - Eric Stuart (See Veronica Taylor- it's the same thing and the same case, he loves Pokemon but poor guy's been shut out by Pokemon International like Taylor. I still love his music and I hope his music career goes very well for him regardless of whether TPCi gives him another chance. I recommend it to Pokemon dub fans- it's very good music and Stuart's always loved being a musician though he's still active in voice over work-- he works alongside much of the TPCi VA cast used in YGO Zexal and he's still playing roles nowadays- his VA career seems to be restarting again).
    - Amy Birnbaum (I've talked to her on FB alongside much of the current crew- who are also very kind people: she says she'd love to make a cameo sometime. She's in Georgia at the moment but she's a really great person and very kind- she's probably willing to fly to NY for old times' sake to dub an episode)

    I also wanted TPCi to give Rachael Lillis and Maddie Blaustein roles, which they did and I'm at least grateful that TPCi allowed me to hear them one last time. R.I.P. Maddie- she was an excellent Meowth IMHO! :)

    I never said I didn't like Dawn's voice, because I never had a problem with it from the get-go from "Following a Maiden's Voyage," and I even said how I felt it was a standout voice in TPCi's dub to me just a few posts back! XD. My main problem now is basically with the management at TPCi at this point, and what they're doing to much of the main VA cast from 4Kids' dub (a lot of those VAs are the ones I've wanted back since 2006). I'd just like to see them have a oneshot role like many have had/are having nowadays, which considering Vic Mignogna and FUNi VAs are being hired at this point to play minor onetime roles as well, I'm absolutely disappointed in the way they're handling the dub voices (bunch of no names with no prior animation work period like Brittney Lee Hamilton, Nicole Hamilton, Benjamin Becker (?) or something have been popping up in recent eps). I still prefer 4Kids for this anime, don't get me wrong, I don't prefer TPCi's dub by any means. I was just telling that guy that please, 4Kids does not dub this show anymore, so if you want to blame someone blame the current dubbers for your problem with the pronounciation and dubbing right now. I never said TPCi is bad at dubbing here, but I definitely find them worse at dubbing the Pokemon anime than 4Kids was. It's just an opinion, what I'm saying with regards to the dubs isn't fact. I know that obviously! I'm just saying, I like 4Kids dub more than this one.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  7. Vernikova

    Vernikova Champion


    Pronounce "Ratata" differently and you're automatically labeled as a bad dunning company.
  8. *dubbing*

    4Kids isn't that bad at this anime despite the constant complaints about the silliest, minor things surfacing these days like onigiri being changed into sandwiches (what does that have to do with Pokemon? Nothing, duh, so what's the problem? Must everything maintain 100% Japanese authenticity to be good- if people honestly think taking a riceball or some JPN music out a show makes it bad, I can't disagree more. Sure it doesn't have to be super American, I understand, but it doesn't have to be Super Japanese either. I don't think so, that's BS, so long as the show is enjoyable that's all I care about. If it's boring, then that's the problem). TPCi isn't either, and just because one may find them worse than 4Kids for this anime (where a lot of people actually like 4Kids and liked them dubbing this anime contrary to others), it doesn't mean they're bad. I'm sick of the 4Kids bashing among the anime fandom these days, personally they've never bothered me with the exception of One Piece where they did actually suck like hell. Why don't people realize if a show is enjoyable, it's fine. Have the Japanese ever said it's so wrong to edit out stuff? No. They only took 4Kids YGO license away because they made UNCUT DVDs with FUNimation for heck's sake (underhanded deals), and the Pokemon license to SAVE money because the VAs on now in the main cast were cheaper. Seriously? I can understand some hatred of 4Kids is plausible, but when 4Kids does something people want, they get bashed. When they do something right, they get bashed. All for that bloody One Piece dub they did (I honestly wish they never dubbed it because without it I'm sure this much bashing would not ever had occurred). If people are STILL so upset about that, do what I do- watch the FUNimation dub and quit complaining. If not, please shut up- you have an alternate version you ungrateful...Pokemon fans are stuck with TPCi's dub and we'll never get another dub). Absolutely tragic what rabid purists these days have done to them. True they have screwed up several other shows like Tokyo Mew Mew, Sonic X, YGO Zexal, and Magical Doremi, but aside from that, I have actually liked all other 4Kids dubs. I like most dubbing companies with the exceptions of Odex and AB Groupe's dubs of the DBZ films, but I guess I don't have too many standards. 4Kids may have butchered three or four anime, but for those anime, there are three or four good dubs they did too. Pity people won't ever forgive them for their messups and they're out of dubbing for good (pre-Pokemon days). I never really minded them with a few anime as exceptions where they did blow it but it's easy to forgive them seeing what has happened to them.

    Curse me Japanese to English dub purists (gotta maintain everything or else it sucks, even TPCi's getting bashed for replacing themes and edits nowadays and I gotta say WTF is this nitpick hour?), but let me just thank and praise 4Kids for their Pokemon dub because they did a good job with it, and did better than TPCi has done or is doing with the anime IMO, in more ways than the infamous use of voice acting prowess (which def is, I'll admit, the main way I prefer 4Kids because voice quality is #1 in a dub to me, without it I could care less, although I understand why some may prefer Sarah and the others but I most certainly don't). Just because 4Kids did something doesn't make it bad. I can say with all honesty I think (and it's my opinion, please don't take this the wrong way) 4Kids dub of this show is far superior to TPCi's (which I am not saying is a bad dub, it's fine/decent in my book, but 4Kids practically batted Pokemon out of the ballpark to me and TPCi's dub doesn't have at its core what made Pokemon special to me as a fan- love and genuinely putting 100% effort into the dub, that's what's important to make a show good to me). I'm just a softie though.

    I think the 4Kids dub ranged from very good-excellent overall, while TPCi's dub ranges from mediocre-good overall at the moment. I'll say that TPCi's dub is getting better in terms of VA work now though and I do like it in its own way. It's not bad, I mean, I just like 4Kids a whole lot more for the English dub.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  9. Vernikova

    Vernikova Champion

    It has always been around because they're not good. You can ejoy a bad dub but that doesn't stop it from being a bad dub. ;417;
  10. Raptor_Crow

    Raptor_Crow I lied to you all

    I enjoyed it when Dawn got freaked out by Cilan's Evaluation Time. And I liked Oshawott and Piplup becoming rivals in love.

    Pokémon Connoisseurs are only native to Unova so of course Dawn, who is native to the Sinnoh region, would react like that.

    Well let me reveal that the company currently dubbing Pokémon (TPCI) don't turn rice balls into sandwiches or call them doughnuts. You need to decide on yourself which dub you prefer; TPCI sticks closer to the original script but some find this makes the dialogue less realistic compared to the 4kids one.

    Also the VA change, but let's leave the troublesome thing out. The dub you prefer depends on your perspective, or you just prefer the Japanese version. Just answering in a simple way for this person. Now enough about this. Seriously, does this need to happen every time a view on the dub is brought up?
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  11. I'll admit, TPCi sticks negligibly closer, but the thing is, there are still a plethora of goofs and mistakes...only now honestly significantly weaker VA work than before as I see it. For me, I'd rather have stronger intros and voice acting (IMO) over onigiri remaining intact and slightly more faithful (at the same time dull as hell) scripts. I don't recall Satoshi saying "o'course," "'kay," and "winnin'" in the JPN version (or still saying Polka-mon in the recent Virbank Gym episode), or TRio's alliterations from BF-DP being in the JPN scripts. Seriously, so it's slightly better than what 4Kids gave us overall in terms of editing/scripting, but I don't see much or any difference considering both dubs have shown so many errors over time. The voice acting is noticeably weaker to me, though, but some may find it stronger and I understand that. The key component of a dub for me is the voice acting: for me, it has to be very natural, realistic, heartfelt, and fit the character's personality well. I am not denying some of TPCi's VAs have done this, but several don't. Here's an example of why I feel some of TPCi's best VAs are 4Kids' worst VAs: Eileen and Jason are fairly limited in emoting, do not put much effort beyond reading the scripts, nowadays giving half-hearted work to Iris and Cilan although starting off well. I have to say... Eric's AG James on his worst day puts Jason's Cilan on his very best day to absolute shame. That's not minor at all.

    Personally, logically speaking, three riceballs/onigiri called riceballs/onigiri instead of doughnuts/sandwiches, or all the voice acting taking a sharp decline for 30+ characters? From there my pick is easy. What in the world does onigiri have to do with Pokemon? Nothing. HELL, both Japan and TPCi have been using poorly drawn sandwiches since Best Wishes! that look just like the ones 4Kids made back in Seasons 7-8, so I see no difference at all. "This sandwich is so good, Cilan!" So, there's no more onigiri...shows how little that has to do with the actual show.

    Now, if you preferred TPCi's voice acting, scripts, and stuff, that would make actual coherent sense to me. That I can understand. But the editing stuff, I totally don't get the complaints for both dubs. Riceballs, sandwiches, doughnuts, sweet honey- it's all food. How is it an insult to not keep a riceball in a 20 second clip? I don't understand that at all. XD.

    The Ocean Dub of DBZ had severe editing, but no one says Ocean was bad, do they? FUNi's dub had childish scripts, "mondo cool," but no one bashes FUNi, do they? TPCi's Pokemon dub has tons of errors like 4Kids did, but no one bashes them for those concrete errors as opposed to the voice acting flaw they see, do they? It's ridiculous how people just keep targeting 4Kids and TPCi continuously when other "good" dubbers are just as bad/guilty of these mistakes, all I'm saying.

    It's all opinion though, whether we like the 4Kids dub more, TPCi dub more, or the JPN version more. That much I know you're right about.

    If 4Kids' dub is a "bad dub," then TPCi's dub is the same "bad dub" by your definition, then. Both replace music, have made vocal and editing errors, it's almost the same but TPCi has retained...what? 0.01% more JPN stuff...overall I think it's worse...really it's the same dub in terms of quality with edits, music, and that stuff- it depends on what voice actors you prefer and the style/entertainment value for Pokemon. I have to go with 4Kids here: I do think they were actually...very good-excellent for this series. TPCi's not bad, but their dub lacks the...fun, charm, and extra effort.... 4Kids put into it, I guess. TPCi's dub is average, occasionally good on some episodes at present IMHO. Neither are bad dubs to me, but whatever, people bash 4Kids on this because they're going to for...no legitimate reason other than them being 4Kids.

    Typo: *enjoy*

    So, in my opinion (because it's not a fact either dub is a bad or good dub- just opinion):

    4Kids Dub = Good (Early Season 1), Very good (Mid-late Season 1), Excellent (Seasons 2-8)
    TPCi Dub = Extremely Painful (Seasons 10-11), Very Painful (Season 9), Mediocre (Season 12-13; 15), Good (Season 14)
    JPN version = Epic (Seasons 1-9), Average (Seasons 10-13/DP), Good (Seasons 14-15)

    Holistically, I find the JPN the best. In second, the 4Kids dub. In third, TPCi's dub.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  12. Vernikova

    Vernikova Champion

    Yeah, it's a bad dub. It got some movie plus sides but other than it's about the same.
  13. Eievui-Nymphia

    Eievui-Nymphia XY, gen of dreams.


    And I like the episode and I like Dawn returning. The problem with her is more how the Japanese writers promoted it than anything else. Although I got something to complain.

    But, seriously, no new clothes!!! Seriously, I feel anticlimatic specially when Cynthia gets new clothes (although I know that's just the shirt, the rest of the outfit is the same) but didn't her. Because Giovanni in BW got new clothes!!!

    Specially on her. You know, a character that only gets standard clothes because 1) promoting the actual games and 2) had the infamous "stock" animation (this is why you remember how the animation of some attacks too much). Seriously, you see one episode= one standard outfit of the list and you're fine.

    Thanks god that I like/love them, fortunately.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  14. So I take it both dubs irk the hell out of you? The original JPN is your favorite? That's cool then.

    I think Veronica Taylor and Eric Stuart are 50x the actors Vic Mignogna or J. Michael Tatum are or ever will be, though. ;)

    Yeah, sorry about that, we're just discussing how Dawn's VA work was and then it led to this, so apologies. Back on topic, good Cameo for Dawn. She'll be around for a few more episodes.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  15. I'd like to think of a reply to this but I think this quote from another thread sums it up well:
  16. Chapter

    Chapter hello, im back sorta

    is it not weird that in the middle of this episode when all the pkmn meet each other pachirisu randomly kicks oshawott's scalchop and THEN noone cares? lol
  17. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    Come to Kanzenshuu and you will. Besides that was went FUNimation was just beginning. They did better after that.

    As for this episode, it was pretty standard where the gang does jack all and kill time.
  18. Vernikova

    Vernikova Champion

    I didn't watch the Japanese version.
  19. wobbanut

    wobbanut Team Awesome

    I was very happy to see Dawn again, and I loved seeing Buneary's crush on Pikachu again. I wish they would run the specials with Dawn and Brock so we can see where Dawn's Cyndaquil evolved. I also liked the start of Piplup and Oshawott's rivalry over Meloetta, it was funny. :) Ah, I hope we'll be seeing more of familiar people from the past once we get farther into season 16.

  20. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    I love that Dawn returned. I love that Oshawott and Piplup both fought over Meloetta.

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