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Pirating of Music and other Digital Media

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
It's not about not paying. It's about people having way too much control over something for the sake of profit. There's nothing wrong with making a profit, but the record dealers make an absurd amount of money already, what exactly are they going to miss from pirating? Provided that you know how difficult pirating is and how most sources are incredibly unreliable. And the fact the it's just plain easier to buy the Music. Pirating should just be an available option. Albeit, not the best to choose from.

But if you own something shouldn't you be able to control it how you like within reason of the law? If you owned something wouldn't you be mad if people used it without your permission? And it's been gone over before but not every record company is posting super high profits, and a lot really don't make that much money, and do go bankrupt.

And what's hard about pirating really? Unless you're either super gullible or have no idea how to use a computer it's pretty easy.
 

waffle_x_v

Fun stuff
But if you own something shouldn't you be able to control it how you like within reason of the law? If you owned something wouldn't you be mad if people used it without your permission? And it's been gone over before but not every record company is posting super high profits, and a lot really don't make that much money, and do go bankrupt.

And what's hard about pirating really? Unless you're either super gullible or have no idea how to use a computer it's pretty easy.

No I wouldn't be mad. I'm completely honest here. If i'm an entertainer and people like my stuff, why would that make me angry? And if those same people end up making me famous, I might end up with a snazzy $ 100,00 endorsement deal. I'd be angry if they took my stuff and made money off of it, but if they're using it for their intended use, why get riled up?

Pirating is a lot more difficult than you think. You need to find the right sources as well as have the right type of program to make it work. A wrong source could give you a virus, and most sources won't work and are just there to get you to download their junk material. It isn't hard like climbing up Mount Everest, but it isn't brain dead easy, either. And most people would not make the effort and would just download it with a click on their ipod. It's like adding videos to a 2001 phone. Possible with some effort? Yes. Easy? No.

I'm not going to lie and say that it's not going to slash up profits, but you'd be surprised how innovative people get just to get some $$$.
 
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bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
No I wouldn't be mad. I'm completely honest here. If i'm an entertainer and people like my stuff, why would that make me angry? And if those same people end up making me famous, I might end up with a snazzy $ 100,00 endorsement deal. I'd be angry if they took my stuff and made money off of it, but if they're using it for their intended use, why get riled up?

You do realize that only happens to a select few people right? Like not even 1% of musicians. You might hear of one person a year where this model works for them, and no one else.

Pirating is a lot more difficult than you think. You need to find the right sources as well as have the right type of program to make it work. A wrong source could give you a virus, and most sources won't work and are just there to get you to download their junk material. It isn't hard like climbing up Mount Everest, but it isn't brain dead easy, either. And most people would not make the effort and would just download it with a click on their ipod. It's like adding videos to a 2001 phone. Possible with some effort? Yes. Easy? No.

It really is easy. Maybe if you're a 70 year old half blind person who only uses their computer for solitare yeah it would be hard for them, but not for anyone born after 1980.
 

waffle_x_v

Fun stuff
You do realize that only happens to a select few people right? Like not even 1% of musicians. You might hear of one person a year where this model works for them, and no one else.
I'm just saying that's a possible. Along with other minimal deals like $1,000 for you promoting a small chain of family restaurant. That sorta thing. And in all honesty if the said band is that small, their material probably wouldn't be up on the internet to pirate anyway.
It really is easy. Maybe if you're a 70 year old half blind person who only uses their computer for solitare yeah it would be hard for them, but not for anyone born after 1980.

Fine. Download a copy of the 1983 oscars. I'm sure it'll be easy to get. But if you won't, that's fine. This argument is getting opinionated anyway. Agree to disagree? Y/y? k bye.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
I'm just saying that's a possible. Along with other minimal deals like $1,000 for you promoting a small chain of family restaurant. That sorta thing. And in all honesty if the said band is that small, their material probably wouldn't be up on the internet to pirate anyway.

Even middle of the road musicians have to struggle sometimes. Bands like 30 Seconds to Mars are still in debt to their record company, and they're a fairly big name band. The artists themselves have to spend a lot of their own money for their advertisements and tours. It's like you think musicians are too big where the lost money doesn't matter to them, or they're too small to matter.
Fine. Download a copy of the 1983 oscars. I'm sure it'll be easy to get. But if you won't, that's fine. This argument is getting opinionated anyway. Agree to disagree? Y/y? k bye.

And you do realize I'm talking about music right? That's like someone who knows how to fix a car getting told to fix an F-16. And you could probably look up memorable clips from the show on youtube even, or another source. And it's not getting that opinionated.
 

waffle_x_v

Fun stuff
I was talking about music and movies. If you can't get the whole thing, quit saying it's that easy, because it isn't.

What does being in debt to the record company have to do with anything? If they can't make money, despite all the copyright laws put into place, that reflects badly on the band if anything else.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
I was talking about music and movies. If you can't get the whole thing, quit saying it's that easy, because it isn't.

Well you stated an awards show, which isn't either. Music and movies are both easy to get, award shows are a completely different thing.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
What does being in debt to the record company have to do with anything? If they can't make money, despite all the copyright laws put into place, that reflects badly on the band if anything else.

It's because the band has to pay for everything themselves, the advertisements, the videos, the tours. Like when a band gets a 2 million signing bonus a lot of it gets eaten up by that stuff. And the bands and artists lose out due to pirating more than the companies themselves, since they get the money regardless, but the band only gets money if they make it.
 

waffle_x_v

Fun stuff
It's because the band has to pay for everything themselves, the advertisements, the videos, the tours. Like when a band gets a 2 million signing bonus a lot of it gets eaten up by that stuff. And the bands and artists lose out due to pirating more than the companies themselves, since they get the money regardless, but the band only gets money if they make it.

Most of their money comes form touring, you said that yourself. Again, that reflects on the band.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Most of their money comes form touring, you said that yourself. Again, that reflects on the band.

Most of their money does come from touring, but how much of that is taken out and given to the record companies? And if it affects the biggest bands and artist out there it doesn't reflect on the bands anymore, that's when it becomes an issue.
 

waffle_x_v

Fun stuff
Most of their money does come from touring, but how much of that is taken out and given to the record companies? And if it affects the biggest bands and artist out there it doesn't reflect on the bands anymore, that's when it becomes an issue.

I had to read that a few times before I understood your weird logic. It does reflect on the band. If you make bad or unpopular music, then guess what? No one is going to buy your album or go to your concerts. That's how it works. And whether you agree with it or not, that is a factor in how bands make their money. No popularity=No profits. You can't blame the record company if you suck.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
I had to read that a few times before I understood your weird logic. It does reflect on the band. If you make bad or unpopular music, then guess what? No one is going to buy your album or go to your concerts. That's how it works. And whether you agree with it or not, that is a factor in how bands make their money. No popularity=No profits. You can't blame the record company if you suck.

It's not that it's bad or unpopular, it's that if people keep pirating songs in bulk then the bands don't make enough money to pay back the record company. It has nothing to do about quality, it's about people being selfish and not wanting to spend money.
 

kochoupink

butts lol
It's not that it's bad or unpopular, it's that if people keep pirating songs in bulk then the bands don't make enough money to pay back the record company. It has nothing to do about quality, it's about people being selfish and not wanting to spend money.

You are never going to get The Internet to admit that they should at least feel a little uncomfortable taking for free what other people put time and money into making.
 

miles0624

Wrath of Fire
I had to read that a few times before I understood your weird logic. It does reflect on the band. If you make bad or unpopular music, then guess what? No one is going to buy your album or go to your concerts. That's how it works. And whether you agree with it or not, that is a factor in how bands make their money. No popularity=No profits. You can't blame the record company if you suck.

Ok. In plain English, what he is saying, and as explained approximately 75 percent of their money comes from concerts. Now, out of that they have to pay the band, their label, set up, advertisement, etc. That is why less than 5 percent of musicians break even on touring. Now just off that, they still owe money to the company for paying for the creation of the songs. Even though you get the songs for free, the records still have to be paid. So while you are enjoying the "testing" they are losing money and going into debt. A band could be completely popular, and still go bankrupt because of this. Your logic is faulty because unless the band is doing multi-million dollar tours, these bands won't be in business for long, even if all the concerts do sell out.
 

waffle_x_v

Fun stuff
It's not that it's bad or unpopular, it's that if people keep pirating songs in bulk then the bands don't make enough money to pay back the record company. It has nothing to do about quality, it's about people being selfish and not wanting to spend money.

I'm sorry but no. It has everything to do with quality in regards to this case. If we were talking about a time were pirating is legal, this may be valid. But it's simply not for that reason. Your logic is really faulty here.

A band could be completely popular, and still go bankrupt because of this. Your logic is faulty because unless the band is doing multi-million dollar tours, these bands won't be in business for long, even if all the concerts do sell out.

Wrong. If a band is extremely popular, they're going to do well on tours and promotion deals. Get real. What is this BS? Popular bands always do well, if they're not, than the band is not as popular as you think they are. There's no reason why they wouldn't break even on tours if they have a large fan base. A concert is a lot more than just listening to the band's music. It's about seeing them in person.

You are never going to get The Internet to admit that they should at least feel a little uncomfortable taking for free what other people put time and money into making.

Ahhh, shaming. The best way to get people to do what you want or feel what you want. Not hypocritical at all to use something unscrupulous to fight against another action deemed unscrupulous.
 
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miles0624

Wrath of Fire
I'm sorry but no. It has everything to do with quality in regards to this case. If we were talking about a time were pirating is legal, this may be valid. But it's simply not for that reason. Your logic is really faulty here.

First, your statement about pirating being legal makes no sense in this context and has no baring on your case.

Second, everyone else has provided evidence for their views in this thread but you.

Thirdly, like touring, it cost money to make an album. That money has to be paid. So this has nothing to do with quality. It is just cheap people not willing to pay for music.

Lastly, you can not call someones logic faulty with no logic at all.


Wrong. If a band is extremely popular, they're going to do well on tours and promotion deals. Get real. What is this BS? Popular bands always do well, if they're not, than the band is not as popular as you think they are. There's no reason why they wouldn't break even on tours if they have a large fan base. A concert is a lot more than just listening to the band's music. It's about seeing them in person.

Again, would you like to provide evidence for this statement. As I have stated with profit that less than five percent of bands break even on tour. One prime example is my chemical Romance. One thing you don't understand is that only the mega stars are paid to perform. Everyone else still has to rent out the space. Anyways, lets see some evidence.

Edit: I am speaking specifically of their black parade tour.


Ahhh, shaming. The best way to get people to do what you want or feel what you want. Not hypocritical at all to use something unscrupulous to fight against another action deemed unscrupulous.

This is really how most people debate on this forum. Everyone has used this tactic in a roundabout way to bring something out.
 
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bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
I'm sorry but no. It has everything to do with quality in regards to this case. If we were talking about a time were pirating is legal, this may be valid. But it's simply not for that reason. Your logic is really faulty here.

How is it faulty? Are you ignoring the part where the bands have to spend most of their own money to keep continuing? Where they owe money to the record companies, and they only make the extra? Quality means nothing when it comes to pirating. Stop trying to justify your laziness and cheapness, because it's not working. You're coming off as the guy who thinks that just getting your name out there is enough, and that's just plain wrong. It's like you have no grasp of how money works.



Wrong. If a band is extremely popular, they're going to do well on tours and promotion deals. Get real. What is this BS? Popular bands always do well, if they're not, than the band is not as popular as you think they are. There's no reason why they wouldn't break even on tours if they have a large fan base. A concert is a lot more than just listening to the band's music. It's about seeing them in person.

Lady Gaga is one of the most popular artists out there, and she puts nearly all of her money in her tours and videos, so she doesn't profit much if at all from tours. Are you going to tell me she's not popular, or that she doesn't deserve to be an artist then?


I don't want to repeat this but if you just want to admit you want to get music without paying for it and don't care about anyone else just say so, because it's looking fairly obvious that that's the case here. Pirating is always selfish unless you use it for the "try before you buy" reason.
 

waffle_x_v

Fun stuff
How is it faulty? Are you ignoring the part where the bands have to spend most of their own money to keep continuing? Where they owe money to the record companies, and they only make the extra? Quality means nothing when it comes to pirating. Stop trying to justify your laziness and cheapness, because it's not working. You're coming off as the guy who thinks that just getting your name out there is enough, and that's just plain wrong. It's like you have no grasp of how money works.
We're talking about how a band is able to make money in a world were pirating is illegal. If the band can't succeed despite the laws put into place, that reflects on them and no one else. Quit making a bunch of nonsense excuses to this.




Lady Gaga is one of the most popular artists out there, and she puts nearly all of her money in her tours and videos, so she doesn't profit much if at all from tours. Are you going to tell me she's not popular, or that she doesn't deserve to be an artist then?

Irrelevant do to your blatant incomprehension.
I don't want to repeat this but if you just want to admit you want to get music without paying for it and don't care about anyone else just say so, because it's looking fairly obvious that that's the case here. Pirating is always selfish unless you use it for the "try before you buy" reason.

Instead of making personal attacks, why don't you come up with a good argument?

First, your statement about pirating being legal makes no sense in this context and has no baring on your case.

Second, everyone else has provided evidence for their views in this thread but you.

Thirdly, like touring, it cost money to make an album. That money has to be paid. So this has nothing to do with quality. It is just cheap people not willing to pay for music.

Lastly, you can not call someones logic faulty with no logic at all.

Reading comprehension. You could use it! Evidenced by the fact that you can't understand anything in this entire thread.

If this is the best this debate forum can produce, I'm outta here. Unless your next argument is cohesive and worth replying to don't expect me to come back. Take the last word for all I care, it's clear that's what you want.
 
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miles0624

Wrath of Fire
We're talking about how a band is able to make money in a world were pirating is illegal. If the band can't succeed despite the laws put into place, that reflects on them and no one else. Quit making a bunch of nonsense excuses to this.

Yet, you bluntly ignore the continous information on how pirating can't hurt the band in the long run. How pirating can be the source of why a band collaspses.



Irrelevant do to your blatant incomprehension.

Ok. So, we aren't trying to make you look like an idiot at this point, which you are doing a good job, but here is how you debated.

We give you evidence you are wrong.

You respond by saying that because we gave evidence and you didn't we can comprehend everything. Which the only thing you say to back up your claims is that you have an uncle in the music business. Yeah, that proves you have a lot of knowledge. Also, weren't you the one who said and I quote

Ahhh, shaming. The best way to get people to do what you want or feel what you want. Not hypocritical at all to use something unscrupulous to fight against another action deemed unscrupulous.

... Ehem. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


Instead of making personal attacks, why don't you come up with a good argument?

That wasn't a personal attack. Don't come on the debate forum if you feel like people are attacking you buy making a statement.

Reading comprehension. You could use it! Evidenced by the fact that you can't understand anything in this entire thread.

Why don't you look at the statement I made above. Also, this is what you define as a personal attack and like quoted above. Can you also read the post instead of just blindly debating? That may actually help you in this debate.

Instead of making personal attacks, why don't you come up with a good argument?[/

So here the thing, you accuse someone of something, then go on to do the same thing. So here is what we have to realize.

1. You are at this point a troll not willing to debate. As there have been people on this forum able to justify pirating, and provide evidence to their claims, of which you are not one of them.

2. Just and ignorant poster who has no idea how to debate and just likes to make a fool of themself. It is possible to have a debate with someone you disagree with based on FACTs and not the way you percieve a notation.

If this is the best this debate forum can produce, I'm outta here. Unless your next argument is cohesive and worth replying to don't expect me to come back. Take the last word for all I care, it's clear that's what you want.

Ok. So lets talk about this part and your debating style since you want to try and debate everyone.

Firstly, you win a debate not by having the last word, but actually providing evidence for your case.

Second, instead of actually being smart enough to look up evidence to support you claims you go on personal experience. This is a fallacy in itself. You are making a sweeping generalization because that is how you feel. This holds no grounds in a debate.

Thirdly, in order to deal with evidence provided, you call it wrong. Lady Gaga's tour grossed 500,000 dollars a night, of which she took 50,000 dollars. Off the international revenue, she would only make 1.65 million dollars. Now she made 52 million dollars last year in profits. As a total amount last year she made 113 million from concerts. So how can it be that she only had 52 million from profits. Oh, because concerts aren't free. She has to pay for the stuff. Did 75% of the money she made come from the tour. Yes. Now how much of that money is in the bank? only 1.65 million. Do I need to make this easier to understand? Do you know how lond this tour lasted? Can artist who haven't reached her popularity reach this. You talked about reading comprehension, yet can we get some common sense in here.

Moreover, don't use words in the wrong way to make youself look smarter than you are. Cohesive would me a united argument. Can you tell me which one isn't.

Further, instead of crying about what people are saying just because they are against you, why don't you grow up. It is a debate forum. It is not a place for little boys who get their feelings hurt extremely easily and when they have had enough cry their way with a last insulting bite to make themselves feel better. This isn't being jugemental, it is a fact. Base on how the last post had people post evidence, yet you skip over it to say how you feel mistreated by bad debaters.

Lastly, its fine if you don't come back. If you ever do, try to be more mature and realize that people are going to disagree with you.
 
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