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PO Tiers VS Smogon Tiers

PO or Smogon Tiers?

  • PO

    Votes: 32 21.8%
  • Smogon

    Votes: 115 78.2%

  • Total voters
    147
IMO I think both tiers suck. Smogon is ban happy, and PO are a bunch of idiots. Ok, swift swim doubles speed. Pretty annoying, but instead of banning drizzle+swift swim, why not just restrict the amount of swift swim users per team? 1 swift swim user is not likely to sweep a team, and most effective swift swim users are very frail. If they are going to ban drizzle/swift, they need to ban drought/chlorophyll and sand stream/sand throw aswell. Ive used my fair share of weather teams, and ive been beat plenty of times by non-weather teams. I can also beat weather teams with my non-weather teams. Im not a fantastic battler, so if I can do it, anyone else can. IMO they should only allow one swift swimmer per drizzle team, not ban the combo all together. The server that I play on doesnt follow either tiers, thank God. We have our own councel to decide this stuff.
 

:wub:disc

more like :mam:anbou
If they are going to ban drizzle/swift, they need to ban drought/chlorophyll and sand stream/sand throw aswell.

no?

why do people think like this?

you have to take into account other factors as well, such as swift swim being ridiculously widespread (unlike sand throw) and the users who get it ALSO get a 1.5x boost on their main stab moves (unlike chlorophyll users). there are far more factors to take into account than "these abilities all boost speed in weather so they should all be restricted".

and if you're implying that smogon is aiming for consistency with banning instead of only banning the broken **** then you're just wrong
 

calze6

Reclaiming da ladder
I always thought PO was ban-happy. SS + drizzle was was banned cuz it is more broken than the rest duh? Why was kyogre having more usage than groudon or tyranitar in ubers?
 

Mewtwo_soul

Servant of Mewtwo #1
IMO I think both tiers suck. Smogon is ban happy, and PO are a bunch of idiots. Ok, swift swim doubles speed. Pretty annoying, but instead of banning drizzle+swift swim, why not just restrict the amount of swift swim users per team? 1 swift swim user is not likely to sweep a team, and most effective swift swim users are very frail. If they are going to ban drizzle/swift, they need to ban drought/chlorophyll and sand stream/sand throw aswell. Ive used my fair share of weather teams, and ive been beat plenty of times by non-weather teams. I can also beat weather teams with my non-weather teams. Im not a fantastic battler, so if I can do it, anyone else can. IMO they should only allow one swift swimmer per drizzle team, not ban the combo all together. The server that I play on doesnt follow either tiers, thank God. We have our own councel to decide this stuff.

Terrible logic.

"I can beat an Uber Team run by F.E.A.R., so Ubers must not be that powerful."

No, just NO.

Also allowing one SS is kind of silly. That's like saying "Well we'll only ban Mewtwo with these moves because if it has 20-60 BP moves it isn't that strong."

Then banning things would become redundant.

Ban outright, or don't ban at all.
 

UStrainer40137

<---MINE!!!!
Bans, bans, bans, this is why I do uber battles.
Don't insult me for playing all out.
 

Darkmaster Rannon

Thundercats Hoo!
Bans, bans, bans, this is why I do uber battles.
Don't insult me for playing all out.

This- If you're tired of getting banhammered faster than a straight girl at a mens only gay bar, you best be going for the ubers and be like a straight girl at a normal bar, sipping down your martinis alongside James Bond and George Clooney.
 

UStrainer40137

<---MINE!!!!
This- If you're tired of getting banhammered faster than a straight girl at a mens only gay bar, you best be going for the ubers and be like a straight girl at a normal bar, sipping down your martinis alongside James Bond and George Clooney.

That's exactly what I'm doing. But I be sipping martinis with the ladies, considering I'm a straight guy.
 

ProjectTitan313

Fire breathing moth
Politoed is far too powerful to KO in one hit, Kingdra cannot be walled by anything (Lapras, Empoleon, Lapras, Shedinja, mythical beings), and once it rains it never ends since Hippowdon, Tyrannitar, Ninetales, and Abomasnow also do not exist. Sunny Day, Hail, Rain Dance, Cloud Nine Golduck (unlikely I admit) cannot be learned by anything, bar Smeargle.

Now, seriously. I'm not blind: I know that Drizzle and Swift Swim has some serious offense. But to ban the combination, really? Swift Swim users are just as capable with Rain Dance, and then what use is there for Politoed..? A Bulky/slow Rain Team?

Come on now. Its a good strategy, but to ban it is inefficient. I mean, God forbid that someone should try a strategy that isn't SR SKARMBLISS U-TURN SPAMMIN.
Perfectly counterable. Lapras has been the bane of Rain Teams, Dragons, and Ice types since RBY. No one uses it so it doesn't count right?

To the matter at hand... I have no idea who PO is, but I follow Smogon's tiers. No complaints on their system.
 

Mewtwo_soul

Servant of Mewtwo #1
Politoed is far too powerful to KO in one hit, Kingdra cannot be walled by anything (Lapras, Empoleon, Lapras, Shedinja, mythical beings), and once it rains it never ends since Hippowdon, Tyrannitar, Ninetales, and Abomasnow also do not exist. Sunny Day, Hail, Rain Dance, Cloud Nine Golduck (unlikely I admit) cannot be learned by anything, bar Smeargle.

Now, seriously. I'm not blind: I know that Drizzle and Swift Swim has some serious offense. But to ban the combination, really? Swift Swim users are just as capable with Rain Dance, and then what use is there for Politoed..? A Bulky/slow Rain Team?

Come on now. Its a good strategy, but to ban it is inefficient. I mean, God forbid that someone should try a strategy that isn't SR SKARMBLISS U-TURN SPAMMIN.
Perfectly counterable. Lapras has been the bane of Rain Teams, Dragons, and Ice types since RBY. No one uses it so it doesn't count right?

To the matter at hand... I have no idea who PO is, but I follow Smogon's tiers. No complaints on their system.


Just because something has counters and can be taken out doesn't make it any less lethal. It's obvious the overall advantages outnumbered the disadvantages, and most of the Pokemon you listed do fine in the rain. (Lapras + Hydration? Sure sounds nice for a RD team) Also listing perma weather monsters is silly. If you lose them or if RD Pokemon is sent back in, boom Rain is back up.

Seriously most of these arguments can be run for Ubers even. "____ and ___ can be countered by the likes of ____"

For instance:

Darkrai has 600 BST. It can be countered by Insomnia/VS/etc. users. It's not the fastest Pokemon and many quick Pokemon can kO it if it doesn't get Subs set up. Dark Void/Sleep moves? Sleep clause, Safe Guard, ARomaTherapy, etc? Remember? Fighting types are becoming more dominant this gen (Mach Punch Conkel)...

It's ability hurts sure, but I think people are forgetting it has many potential counters.

I think it's crazy to outright ban it within such a new metagame where heavy hitters are everywhere.

---

Just saying. Counters and arguments of the sort don't instantly mean it isn't overpowered and or dominant to other strats of the same attempt. Also if you want a real counter to RD, Ferrothorn, Poliwrath can come in and kill Lap, Empol, and more that would counter a standard RD team. Then again isn't the point not to look at an "idiots how to RD team?" But to look at "A superb RD team?"
 

calze6

Reclaiming da ladder
Bans, bans, bans, this is why I do uber battles.
Don't insult me for playing all out.

That is soooooooooooo my logic. Besides, the uber tier is probs the most balanced tier atm, if not the most versatile.
 

Mewtwo_soul

Servant of Mewtwo #1
That is soooooooooooo my logic. Besides, the uber tier is probs the most balanced tier atm, if not the most versatile.


That's not even close to being right. Actually, that's never been right.

Although the sentence after that is true.
 

Plusle.

Plusle!
If you played ubers then you would know that calze is right.
 

Mewtwo_soul

Servant of Mewtwo #1
Ubers is not the most balanced tier. It has nothing to do with playing Ubers, OU, UU, or that new created tier.

Although the tiers are still benging (Smogon is going slowly, PO rushing through ---> Not saying either is wrong)

Balance will never be close to being "better" in Ubers. However, he is certainly right in the fact it is the most versatile. I have no argument there.
 

artbomber_97

Ultimate Aritist
Yeah, I think Uber is kinda balanced. When you are building an Uber team, you have to consider and carry a counter for EVERY pokemon in the tier because all of them can be dangerous threats, unlike in OU, where you just have to consider some of the most used threat.
 
Its not balanced like OU. Its just harder to tell how broken everything is when the entire tier is bursting with 140+ attack stats and STAB Draco Meteors.
 

Mewtwo_soul

Servant of Mewtwo #1
Personally, most people I speak with believe UU is probably the most balanced tier at th e current moment.

The thing most people are not understanding the more versatile a tier is the less balanced it is. The more factors you take into account/yata yata.

Where as a tier with less factors will almost always be more balanced.

Just like fighitng games, more often than not a fighter with less characters will be more balanced than one without. MVC2 V. MVC3, MK2 Vs. MK3, SSB/SSBM Vs. SSBB, and more.
 

calze6

Reclaiming da ladder
Actually, Ubers, having the hyper broken-*** things when put together is actually really balanced. There is always a way to check everything with an offensive team or defensive team, even SD arceus (with scarf dialga or terakion).

Considering there is a lot less to check, it becomes more balanced.
 

LightingKimba

Listenin' t'Dragons!
By definition, no one SHOULD care if Ubers is balanced or not. It's a banlist where anything goes, and that's how it's always been.

From what I know, I would suppose Smogon still has an edge with its tier listing, but even so, after the fiasco that was Drizzle+Swift Swim (That discussion went on for ages, don't even think about trying to ask about that)m well... Both sites' userbase are pretty dense, but I can't even speak on my behalf, since I don't battle anymore, just observe.

In the end, I'm pretty biased towards Smogon, but that's just me.
 
By definition, no one SHOULD care if Ubers is balanced or not. It's a banlist where anything goes, and that's how it's always been.

From what I know, I would suppose Smogon still has an edge with its tier listing, but even so, after the fiasco that was Drizzle+Swift Swim (That discussion went on for ages, don't even think about trying to ask about that)m well... Both sites' userbase are pretty dense, but I can't even speak on my behalf, since I don't battle anymore, just observe.

In the end, I'm pretty biased towards Smogon, but that's just me.

Both sites have some terrible members, but at least Smogon has the higher level skill to back it up. Pokemon Online has.. Kokoloko?
 
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