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Pocket Monsters (2019) Speculation Thread

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Illusio

No words, only rage
How is goodra aweful it was an absolute beast in the clemont gym battle, tied against a pokemon aginst whom half its moves were innefective ( Dragon pulse was completely innefective and slurpuff had flamethrower to counter icebeam), and was continuously hit by fairy wind a move super effective, and yet managed to tie, and lost to a move even AG or PEAKachu would have lost to had they been hit with it.

Goodra wasn't as bad as Noivern, but its strengths are overhyped. Heliolisk, who had a terrible record itself, gave it trouble and it had to get recalled, Slurpuff also had a bad record going into the league so tying with it isn't that impressive, and Bisharp just sliced it. It wasn't that strong of a teammate and if it wasn't a psuedo-legendary more people would be critical of it.
 

Master Pikachu 11

Well-Known Member
Goodra wasn't as bad as Noivern, but its strengths are overhyped. Heliolisk, who had a terrible record itself, gave it trouble and it had to get recalled, Slurpuff also had a bad record going into the league so tying with it isn't that impressive, and Bisharp just sliced it. It wasn't that strong of a teammate and if it wasn't a psuedo-legendary more people would be critical of it.
Not too mention they decide to have Ash leave it in the Swamp instead of it participating in other gym battles such as Olympia’s in order to build up it’s development as a battler. Instead it comes back in the league just because Ash needs 6 Pokémon and it hardly contributes by losing to Bisharp, who I thought it could have performed better against instead. Dragonite despite only appearing in one battle so far as done more for Ash then Goodra could ever dream of accomplishing by defeating two Pokémon in a single battle with one of them being a Mega.
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
Talonflame was consistent the whole way through XY. At no point was it "turned" into a Jobber. In the league it beat Sawyers Slaking and drew with Alains Unfezant. The only official battle it didn't get a loss in was the double battle vs Olympia. And it was never the Ace

With all this Greninja hate, it's pretty clear that Lucario is going to be absolutely despised in a couple years time lol

Tell me: What defines Ace.
Talonflame: Participated in every gym except for Clemont and didn't go down in one without at least taking down another mon (Except for Grant).
Greninja - Only 4 gyms, which one was for Ash-Grenina (So separate from Greninja), needed to be carried by Talonflame through the match with Olympia (Without Talonflame it would have lost), so it only did good in 2 out of its 4 gyms (Ramos and Grant).

Talonflame didn't go down in the league without taking down another mon either.
Greninja only took down Bisharp, who was already weakened by Goodra and Hawlucha beforehand, while Ash-Greninja took down Altaria and Sceptile (But again, Ash-Greninja's wins are separate from Greninja's, since he didn't take them down in regular form).

Talonflame fought 2 legendaries (While Greninja fought none). Fletchinder brought a hit in against Mega Lucario (While Greninja needed its power-up form to bring in hits against Mega's).

Talonflame has had way more impact on the gym run than Greninja ever had, which means that in fact, Talonflame was the ace, so what more needs Talonflame to do for people to finally recognize it as the ace instead of that overrated frog who wasn't that impressive in regular form compared to Talonflame and even Hawlucha.

If Talonflame wasn't the Kalos ace, then Groyvle wasn't the Hoenn ace, simply for the fact Glalie outperformed it during the league and as such was the ace.

However, its hard for some people to recognize that some series have multiple aces
Kanto - Pikachu
Johto - No Ace (And if we need to assign one, it can only be Bayleef for the new mons and Pikachu)
Hoenn - Gym run ace: Grovyle. League ace: Glalie
Sinnoh - Infernape
Unova - Krookodile/Pignite
Kalos - Gym run ace: Talonflame. League ace: Ash-Greninja (So not even the regular form, since even in the league regular form was outclassed by Talonflame and Hawlucha)
Alola - Lycanroc (Performed way better than the rest of the mons).
 
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Decidueye23

Well-Known Member
Goodra wasn't as bad as Noivern, but its strengths are overhyped. Heliolisk, who had a terrible record itself, gave it trouble and it had to get recalled, Slurpuff also had a bad record going into the league so tying with it isn't that impressive, and Bisharp just sliced it. It wasn't that strong of a teammate and if it wasn't a psuedo-legendary more people would be critical of it.
Heliolisk had a terrible track record under clembot not to mention it had a move that was super effective on goodra. And ome can eadily see heliolisk was much better under clemont than clembot. Slurpuff lost to hawlucha when sawyer was a novice. After that in tierno's battle i lt took down his raichu before being taken down by a hydro cannon. So i dont see what terrible record are you speaking of. Bisharp used guillotine. A move if it hits would have done the same thing to any of ash mons. I am not saying goodra is crazy string or something. I am just saying people keep sayibg it jobbed in the league when it actually did okay.

I agree with the fact that it should have gotten more development instead of being left at the marsh.
 
Tell me: What defines Ace.
Talonflame: Participated in every gym except for Clemont and didn't go down in one without at least taking down another mon (Except for Grant).
Greninja - Only 4 gyms, which one was for Ash-Grenina (So separate from Greninja), needed to be carried by Talonflame through the match with Olympia (Without Talonflame it would have lost), so it only did good in 2 out of its 4 gyms (Ramos and Grant).

Talonflame didn't go down in the league without taking down another mon either.
Greninja only took down Bisharp, who was already weakened by Goodra and Hawlucha beforehand, while Ash-Greninja took down Altaria and Sceptile (But again, Ash-Greninja's wins are separate from Greninja's, since he didn't take them down in regular form).

Talonflame fought 2 legendaries (While Greninja fought none). Fletchinder brought a hit in against Mega Lucario (While Greninja needed its power-up form to bring in hits against Mega's).

Talonflame has had way more impact on the gym run than Greninja ever had, which means that in fact, Talonflame was the ace, so what more needs Talonflame to do for people to finally recognize it as the ace instead of that overrated frog who wasn't that impressive in regular form compared to Talonflame and even Hawlucha.

If Talonflame wasn't the Kalos ace, then Groyvle wasn't the Hoenn ace, simply for the fact Glalie outperformed it during the league and as such was the ace.

However, its hard for some people to recognize that some series have multiple aces
Kanto - Pikachu
Johto - No Ace (And if we need to assign one, it can only be Bayleef for the new mons and Pikachu)
Hoenn - Gym run ace: Grovyle. League ace: Glalie
Sinnoh - Infernape
Unova - Krookodile/Pignite
Kalos - Gym run ace: Talonflame. League ace: Ash-Greninja (So not even the regular form, since even in the league regular form was outclassed by Talonflame and Hawlucha)
Alola - Lycanroc (Performed way better than the rest of the mons).
Gym run is just training phase, the real deal is the league.

It is funny someone said Talonflame is a jobber while another claim it is ace.

I think Ash is expert at handling flying bird pokemons.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
I don't want him to be Ash's dad because there's absolutely nothing suggesting such a thing and trying to pretend "they've been related all along" when this show has gone out of its way to never imply anything like that in its 20+ years of airing sounds like incredibly bad writing.

Same.

And honestly, I think the only reason this fanfic is even a thing is because 4Kids kind of feed it with that stage show implying Delia had something with Giovanni (haven't checked that one but I remember reading something along those lines)

I get America is obsessed with Star Wars but not all hero needs to have a "Luke, I'm your father" moment to be relevant. Sometimes, the hero can just be a random "loser's son". Ash's father can just be a nobody. And for all we know, it'd be much more interesting if it was that way
 

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
Yeah I think it'd be better for the kiddos if Ash's dad was a nobody. As much as I like when the hero is destined for greatness because of their bloodline, I feel that the plot line where the hero becomes great through hard work can also be a pretty fun story.
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
Gym run is just training phase, the real deal is the league.

It is funny someone said Talonflame is a jobber while another claim it is ace.

I think Ash is expert at handling flying bird pokemons.

LOLLLL. Gym run is just training phase. This is not the case (Especially in Kalos its not the case).
 
LOLLLL. Gym run is just training phase. This is not the case (Especially in Kalos its not the case).
It is true in every series where Ash start over with only Pikachu, he find new unevolved pokemon and train them from zero. Starting from the weakest gym and ending with strongest gym as his pokemon get stronger by time.

Even one of the purpose of gym match is for the gym leader to give advice to trainers. There is a reason why it is called gym. Gym is place for training/exercise.

When you lose you can just repeat (nothing to lose, not even rank), unlike league match where you are eliminated if you lose. Clearly just training phase. It is like school phase vs work phase, it is okay if you make mistake at school but not at work.
 
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nickdt

Well-Known Member
It is true in every series where Ash start over with only Pikachu, he find new unevolved pokemon and train them from zero. Starting from the weakest gym and ending with strongest gym as his pokemon get stronger by time.

Even one of the purpose of gym match is for the gym leader to give advice to trainers. There is a reason why it is called gym. Gym is place for training/exercise.

When you lose you can just repeat (nothing to lose, not even rank), unlike league match where you are eliminated if you lose. Clearly just training phase. It is like school phase vs work phase, it is okay if you make mistake at school but not at work.

You can also repeat the league if you lose, main difference is that you just have to wait another year.
 
You can also repeat the league if you lose, main difference is that you just have to wait another year.
That is a key difference though.

In gym battle, your opponent (gym leader) do not battle at full power, they are restricted by a rule that prevent them from switching. Afterall, the role of gym leaders is to make the trainer grow and test them.

Furthermore, if you lose, you can just retry, in fact you have unlimited number of retries, there is no retry cost, and no mandatory delay between retries.

The point is, gym battle is to make the trainer and pokemon grow stronger.

If I want to compare pokemons, I will compare them at their final stage, so in case of Greninja, I won't look at the record as Froakie-Greninja but solely as Ash-Greninja after they master the form at snowball episode.
 
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PsychoLogical

Black and White, Yin and Yang, Light and Dark.

Kawaii Emolga

The cutest EVER!!!!
Fans wanted Ash to have a Lucario, now people are starting to hate Riolu on Ash's team because it "hogs" screen time. I guess fans are never satisfied.
I never wanted Ash to get a Lucario, cause I knew that would happen, everything it's just about Riolu/Lucario! I mean, it's a cool pokémon and it fits Ash, but Ash have others pokémon besides Riolu and Pikachu. Why can't the writers give proper screentime to everyone?!
I was so annoyed in XYZ, when everything was about Greninja and that bond thing (I found that boring tbh), and now they are doing this again with Riolu/Lucario.
 

PsychoLogical

Black and White, Yin and Yang, Light and Dark.
I never wanted Ash to get a Lucario, cause I knew that would happen, everything it's just about Riolu/Lucario! I mean, it's a cool pokémon and it fits Ash, but Ash have others pokémon besides Riolu and Pikachu. Why can't the writers give proper screentime to everyone?!
I was so annoyed in XYZ, when everything was about Greninja and that bond thing (I found that boring tbh), and now they are doing this again with Riolu/Lucario.
It's called the marketing curse. This is an unfortunate situation that's been around in every series except in Sun and Moon. It's not new and has been around for years. There's going to be that one mon getting it with SM basically being the very rare exception. You got Charizard getting everything and even after it was gone in favor of moving towards the Johto Squad, it wasn't enough. Sceptile cause it's Sceptile and the rest of the team was just lackluster except Swellow. Infernape in DP (would've been Lucario if they had decided to have him own one but didn't) cause of Paul and the Blaze arc. Every Ash capture that wasn't the starters, Pikachu, Scraggy, and Krookodile in BW cause they thought it was a good idea to have Ash catch lacklusters just to try replicating the OS. Greninja in XY for obvious reasons, and then Journeys which at the moment it's Lucario.
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
It's called the marketing curse. This is an unfortunate situation that's been around in every series except in Sun and Moon. It's not new and has been around for years. There's going to be that one mon getting it with SM basically being the very rare exception. You got Charizard getting everything and even after it was gone in favor of moving towards the Johto Squad, it wasn't enough. Sceptile cause it's Sceptile and the rest of the team was just lackluster except Swellow. Infernape in DP (would've been Lucario if they had decided to have him own one but didn't) cause of Paul and the Blaze arc. Every Ash capture that wasn't the starters, Pikachu, Scraggy, and Krookodile in BW cause they thought it was a good idea to have Ash catch lacklusters just to try replicating the OS. Greninja in XY for obvious reasons, and then Journeys which at the moment it's Lucario.

tbh, it was around in Sun and Moon as well, because Rowlet didn't evolve.
 

PsychoLogical

Black and White, Yin and Yang, Light and Dark.
tbh, it was around in Sun and Moon as well, because Rowlet didn't evolve.
It really wasn't. All of them got plenty of screentime (yes even Naganadel when it was still a Poipole) even if it was basically Lycanroc and Incineroar (as a Torracat at the time) , and Rowlet was a marketing machine due to its cutesy appearance so it wasn't going to evolve anyways and the fact that it took so long to finally confirm that it wasn't going to seemed to be very obvious (if this is what you mean)
 
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