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Pocket Monsters (2019) Speculation Thread

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Joltik-Kid

Careful? Where's the fun in that?
-Okay, it is not Type Advantage as such, my mistake, but at least it had an advantage
Okay that makes a little more sense. I mean Alain's Charizard had like only one effective move at the time in Dragon Claw.
-I don't know how strong that Gyarados is in the first place, that's why I didn't take it into account
Strong enough to make an E4 Pokemon struggle. Heck, it took Mega Chrizard X, Ash-Greninja, and Pikachu to finally take it down.
-HIppowdown vs Torterra? It's a joke?
Hippowdon literally crushes him, although the poor turtle at least held out longer than Infernape ever did, I only remember a vague leaf storm after a tip from Bertha, lol
I'm looking for clarification as to what makes Greninja an E4 Pokemon. It didn't defeat any so I assumed you were talking about being able to hang with one. I figured if damaging an E4 Pokemon was all it took, than the most outlandish might actually be Buizel vs Lucian's Bronzong.
"Ash" (in case Nickit has trouble differentiating it) Greninja is stronger than Infernape man, Just accept it
Ash-Greninja is indeed strong, probably stronger than Infernape... but the feats aren't entirely there to back it up. However, I'm keeping the open mind here.
 

Joltik-Kid

Careful? Where's the fun in that?
The super saiyan transformation is only just a symbol of goku's hidden potential, it's something inherent to him. Similarly ash-greninja is greninja's true strength unleashed and given form. Basically you're opening the lid and letting the demon out if that makes sense.
I see what your going for... but the fact of the matter is Base Goku is an entirely different level of power from any one of his transformations. If someone beats him in base, it's not all to impressive as he's got more levels of power in reserve. If some beats him out of, let's say Super Saiyan Blue... Base Goku is F'd because he can't contend at that level.

That's what Nickt is trying to express here. Greninja, as a whole, is powerful sure, but it's only his Ash-Greninja form that reaches that level of power. If Greninja is losing, he can transform... if Ash-Greninja is losing, welp that's it for him.

TL;DR
Base Greninja isn't at the level Ash-Greninja is
 

Master Pikachu 11

Well-Known Member
Man I so hyped but part of me was gutted not to see Bulbasaur, I had hope he’d appear but then there was slight fear of what if he didn’t, what if he was off helping Tracey with a project or something......and then I looked closer and there he was, hugging Ash, right where he belongs.

now I just need Torterra to get some redemption and possibly Totodile evolve and then I’m satisfied. Oh and a Dawn arc later on this year where she becomes Top coordinator but hey that’s for a different thread!
Bulbasaur is there he is hugging Ash when we see the rest of the pokemon look behind Pikachu when we see Snorlax and Charizard and you will see him
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Never liked being wrong this much before

Edit; Pretty obvious to me that AG is Ash's strongest mon besides Peakachu. Should have expected this reaction though lmao. It's been a while since I've seen nickdt go on rants about how AG doesn't exist as a Pokemon and his feats don't count lmao
I want Greninja back next. I want this power house in action again.
 
I’m so excited to see the reserves again! I’m hoping/guessing Ash ranks up after his match with Iris and in this class, he’ll use more reserves. Hopefully we’ll see more reserves that have more room to grow/evolve.

I think we can see the Alola Pokémon back since Incineroar should finally have a post-evolution battle, Rowlet helps showcase Legends, and Melmetal could potentially showcase its G-Max form.

Of course, there’s also the Sinnoh team to reflect on BDSP. We’re already seeing Infernape, maybe we can see Torterra get some winning matches and/or Gible evolving. And on a Legends note, we could see comebacks for Oshawott and Quilava. So much potential. I hope Ash’s Journeys team has a chance to meet his reserves.
 
I know that's not gonna happen but... when can the Generation 9 of Pokemon happen in both game and Anime, if so, who is gonna be the protagonist of Pokemon Generation 9 Anime then?
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
I’m so excited to see the reserves again! I’m hoping/guessing Ash ranks up after his match with Iris and in this class, he’ll use more reserves. Hopefully we’ll see more reserves that have more room to grow/evolve.

I think we can see the Alola Pokémon back since Incineroar should finally have a post-evolution battle, Rowlet helps showcase Legends, and Melmetal could potentially showcase its G-Max form.

Of course, there’s also the Sinnoh team to reflect on BDSP. We’re already seeing Infernape, maybe we can see Torterra get some winning matches and/or Gible evolving. And on a Legends note, we could see comebacks for Oshawott and Quilava. So much potential. I hope Ash’s Journeys team has a chance to meet his reserves.
Before his current Pokemon team meet the reserves, they need to meet one another... :)
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
I see what your going for... but the fact of the matter is Base Goku is an entirely different level of power from any one of his transformations. If someone beats him in base, it's not all to impressive as he's got more levels of power in reserve. If some beats him out of, let's say Super Saiyan Blue... Base Goku is F'd because he can't contend at that level.

That's what Nickt is trying to express here. Greninja, as a whole, is powerful sure, but it's only his Ash-Greninja form that reaches that level of power. If Greninja is losing, he can transform... if Ash-Greninja is losing, welp that's it for him.

TL;DR
Base Greninja isn't at the level Ash-Greninja is

Based on feats, Base Greninja isn't on the level Talonflame is either (And this is actually a proven fact by comparing both feats as well lol). Still people try to argue against facts is whats funny to me.
 

Morax

King of heroes
I see what your going for... but the fact of the matter is Base Goku is an entirely different level of power from any one of his transformations. If someone beats him in base, it's not all to impressive as he's got more levels of power in reserve. If some beats him out of, let's say Super Saiyan Blue... Base Goku is F'd because he can't contend at that level.

That's what Nickt is trying to express here. Greninja, as a whole, is powerful sure, but it's only his Ash-Greninja form that reaches that level of power. If Greninja is losing, he can transform... if Ash-Greninja is losing, welp that's it for him.

TL;DR
Base Greninja isn't at the level Ash-Greninja is
The point is that the transformation is about unleashing your strength. Not going super saiyan/Ash-greninja is the equivalent of drawing blindfolded. You're essentially handicapping them.
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
People who believe that Base Greninja is weaker than Talonflame are indirectly saying that Leon's base Charizard is even weaker than Noivern.

But Base Greninja is weaker than Talonflame. This is a proven by the feats of both of them. Im tired of people arguing against PROVEN FACTS BASED ON FEATS.
 
Based on the above discussions... people actually think Greninja can pull off the Ash-Greninja feats in base.
No, the problem people have is not with the idea that Greninja is stronger as AG than in base, but that somehow his Battle Bond ability doesn't count or is somehow not inherent to his character and just can be removed...

It's like sure, Greninja is weaker in his base form, but that doesn't really mean anything as he has a battle bond ability/form.
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
This. A lot of people think Ash-greninja is the equivalent of doping or using drugs to boost your strength which is utter nonsense.

I mean, it kinda is using doping or drugs (Same with Mega's, Dynamax/Gigamax and Z-Moves tbh), since the regular/base form can't achieve such feats, so it needs a power-buff/enhancher to do it for them. You can say the same thing about items or abilities that enhance power of a certain Pokemon (And yes, same applies for Gale Wings Talonflame in gen 6)

However, saying that base Greninja is stronger than Talonflame is also utter nonsense, since feats have already disproven this and have factually proven Talonflame is stronger than the base form.
 
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