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Pocket Monsters (2019) Sword/Shield Chapter

AuraChannelerChris

"How did you manage to faint while standing up?"
How the hell was the game encouraging the player to ignore the story. If anything, all important characters receive some great development.

(Except Magnolia...and maybe Marnie, who simply wants his brother to stop being a downer, but she gets a free pass because she's nicer than what her looks say.)
 

PsychoLogical

Well-Known Member
How the hell was the game encouraging the player to ignore the story. If anything, all important characters receive some great development.

(Except Magnolia...and maybe Marnie, who simply wants his brother to stop being a downer, but she gets a free pass because she's nicer than what her looks say.)
Then explain to me how there was nearly nothing standing in your way or any hints of anything major happening until the very near end of the game’s plot. It’s literally just you just walking around doing the gym challenge with no just about no obstacles and the so called obstacles are so minor. You call that a story m8? Like brah :>
 

AuraChannelerChris

"How did you manage to faint while standing up?"
Then explain to me how there was nearly nothing standing in your way or any hints of anything major happening until the very near end of the game’s plot. It’s literally just you just walking around doing the gym challenge with no just about no obstacles and the so called obstacles are so minor. You call that a story m8? Like brah :>
The Legendary Doggos weren't simply going to be doing nothing. Sonia's entire character arc was hinting at the DD happening. Then the player is tipped off by Bede saying he was trying to collect Wishing Stars for Rose, but he was never told exactly why. While Team Yell is not related to the DD, they only serve as a distraction that makes the player wonder, "If they're not the bad guys, who is it?"

Then everything slowly comes together during the championship, which, by the way, has an underlying plot that lasts longer than the player blazing through a typical Pokemon League format.
Now try saying the player has the option to ignore all that, because, quite the opposite, the player has to pay attention to it.

I actually liked how the main plot still fell under the theme of legacy this game was going for, which it did expertly.
 

desdar300

Well-Known Member
Then explain to me how there was nearly nothing standing in your way or any hints of anything major happening until the very near end of the game’s plot. It’s literally just you just walking around doing the gym challenge with no just about no obstacles and the so called obstacles are so minor. You call that a story m8? Like brah :>
I really don't get the people who says this.
Pokemon is a game that can be beaten in 24 hours and the show takes those hours and stretches it out into a three-year series.
Even then the player help Sonia figures out everything from the Wolves being the heroes to what actually happened in The Darkest Day and the only surprise is Eternatus which is what brought about the event back then.
The show had plenty of opportunities to flush out Galar to make a person care about this happening but instead opted to do one-off episodic stories that amounted to almost zilch.
This is strictly on them in my opinion
 
Exactly this.
Pokemon red and green basically had no story but that didn't stop them from crafting some very memorable moments in the OS and creating characters to go along with the feel of Pokemon.
Absolutely no excuse
It irks me that both SM's and SWSH legendary pokemon are used so early in their series. And SM's plot wasnt exactly as exciting as in the games in my opinion. And SM's had some buid-up, what cant be said about the SWSH arc.
 

desdar300

Well-Known Member
It irks me that both SM's and SWSH legendary pokemon are used so early in their series. And SM's plot wasnt exactly as exciting as in the games.
His sun and moon story was made a little awkward because of the lusamine switch-a-roo but here?
I honestly don't know because I can imagine maybe Isle of armor will be used to flush out Dynamaxax a bit more and the crown Tundra is a wild card.
I guess beyond that we have the actual League itself
 
His sun and moon story was made a little awkward because of the lusamine switch-a-roo but here?
I honestly don't know because I can imagine maybe Isle of armor will be used to flush out Dynamaxax a bit more and the crown Tundra is a wild card.
I guess beyond that we have the actual League itself
Well they can use other Legendary pokemon as "arcs" I guess.

EDIT: I love how some ppl think Greninja will return during DD. Doesnt make any sense lol
 
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Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
The Legendary Doggos weren't simply going to be doing nothing. Sonia's entire character arc was hinting at the DD happening. Then the player is tipped off by Bede saying he was trying to collect Wishing Stars for Rose, but he was never told exactly why. While Team Yell is not related to the DD, they only serve as a distraction that makes the player wonder, "If they're not the bad guys, who is it?"

Then everything slowly comes together during the championship, which, by the way, has an underlying plot that lasts longer than the player blazing through a typical Pokemon League format.
Now try saying the player has the option to ignore all that, because, quite the opposite, the player has to pay attention to it.

I actually liked how the main plot still fell under the theme of legacy this game was going for, which it did expertly.
I'm going to leave you with a few Leon quote's that you might have missed:

On Route 9: "<player>! Thanks for coming, but I've got a handle on this! Whatever's making that noise, I'll see to it!""I already told you, didn't I? Keep your eye on the goal! And for you, that's winning the Gym Challenge! The only Gym Badge left is the one you'll get from the Dragon Gym's Leader, Raihan. Right? Raihan is the only Trainer out there I consider a real rival. He's that good, you know!"

Also Route 9: "And there I go again! Sorry, but I suppose this is no time for me to be stopping for a chat. There's a bit of trouble here with my name on it. But don't you worry about a thing! The unbeatable champion is here to look after things and keep you all safe!"

In Hammerlocke: "Well, I am the unbeatable Champion, after all! But what all is going on here?""Did the chairman know anything?"There must be!/Yeah, we'll help! :"Thanks! I appreciate the thought. But all I could ever ask of you would be that you join me in the greatest final match ever. I'll do my part to make that happen by keeping everybody's future safe. So you just keep on doing your part by winning your way through the Gym Challenge!""Looks like we all know what we need to do. So, you two—clear the Gym Challenge so we can meet again at the Champion Cup!"

So yeah, the player doesn't have the option to ignore the story - he's FORCED to ignore it, by Leon. Because if there's something wrong, well, Leon's gotta go and look into it - and we're constantly forced into just going about our way and doing the Gym Challenge.

That's what the story actually forces you to do in terms of gameplay. PsychoLogical was talking about actually having to do something in the story - and you bring up subtle hints that, yes, enrich the narrative, but in terms of gameplay literally don't add anything in particular. The story doesn't require you to do anything other then the Gym Challenge, aside from kicking some Yell-butt, which turns out isn't even related to the narrative.

Remember Gold/Silver/Crystal? Where you and Lance team up to defeat Team Rocket in the Mahogany Hideout? I hate to disagree with you so fiercely on this, but in terms of 'anything story-related standing in your way', in SwSh, Leon is doing all that by himself and removing all obstacles in the game for you and the game is just: finish the gym challenge while Sonia keeps telling you bits of information - knock out a few fanboys that don't come across as threatening - and oh my, at the last part of the league, we're suddenly into storymode. It's all a big 'tell, but don't show' until the end - while in a visual medium, you should be showing and not just telling. And in a game, it should be the gamer partaking in the action, but in SwSh, we're constantly left out of the loop.

There's no defending the SwSh-gameplay/storymode when we had Black and White and B2W2 which did narrative and gameplay flawlessly. Yes, I missed the gym challenge in Sun/Moon, but now that we have it back, I still do kinda want a meaningful villain-plot where it's me leading the charge instead of a pompous champion doing everything.

Sword and Shield is The Lord of the Ring-game where you want to be playing as Aragorn and you're forced to play as Merry for the entire game - and get to be Frodo in the final level.
 
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Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
I think the writers saw the complaints that the kids were solving all the issues and over corrected, probably not realizing that most fans wanted it to be more like BW where you could handle the serious stuff but the adults stepped in when it was clear that it'd be too much for you to handle, like the sages trying to fight you all at once. Like I said in another thread, it would've been better if the player encountered the random dynamax Pokemon and had to fight them.

Ah, but this isn't about the games, it's about the anime arc. I hope they give us something regarding Ash's spontaneous telepathy, even if it's just more buildup. So far he's been able to sense a psychic flying type, a Pokemon that uses aura, and one that no one really knows about. He might be able to sense Zacian but if he does... I get to make all of the Voltron jokes!
 
I think the writers saw the complaints that the kids were solving all the issues and over corrected, probably not realizing that most fans wanted it to be more like BW where you could handle the serious stuff but the adults stepped in when it was clear that it'd be too much for you to handle, like the sages trying to fight you all at once. Like I said in another thread, it would've been better if the player encountered the random dynamax Pokemon and had to fight them.

Ah, but this isn't about the games, it's about the anime arc. I hope they give us something regarding Ash's spontaneous telepathy, even if it's just more buildup. So far he's been able to sense a psychic flying type, a Pokemon that uses aura, and one that no one really knows about. He might be able to sense Zacian but if he does... I get to make all of the Voltron jokes!
Who is the one no one really knows about?
 

PsychoLogical

Well-Known Member
I think the writers saw the complaints that the kids were solving all the issues and over corrected, probably not realizing that most fans wanted it to be more like BW where you could handle the serious stuff but the adults stepped in when it was clear that it'd be too much for you to handle, like the sages trying to fight you all at once. Like I said in another thread, it would've been better if the player encountered the random dynamax Pokemon and had to fight them.

Ah, but this isn't about the games, it's about the anime arc. I hope they give us something regarding Ash's spontaneous telepathy, even if it's just more buildup. So far he's been able to sense a psychic flying type, a Pokemon that uses aura, and one that no one really knows about. He might be able to sense Zacian but if he does... I get to make all of the Voltron jokes!
More like they saw the complaints of genwunners and stubborn loudmouths that ended up ruining the main series games after Gen 5 ended cause Game Freak basically gave up trying after Gen 5. Gen 6 was downright awful with only ORAS being the saving grace and the start of the infinite amount of Gen 1 bullcrap like Megas where a large amount of them were Kanto mons, Gen 7 was cutscene hell, and Gen 8... just lackluster in everything and had to get DLCs for more content.

And getting something related to Ash sensing this or that? The writers be like: say what now? :>
 

AuraChannelerChris

"How did you manage to faint while standing up?"
I'm going to leave you with a few Leon quote's that you might have missed:

On Route 9: "<player>! Thanks for coming, but I've got a handle on this! Whatever's making that noise, I'll see to it!""I already told you, didn't I? Keep your eye on the goal! And for you, that's winning the Gym Challenge! The only Gym Badge left is the one you'll get from the Dragon Gym's Leader, Raihan. Right? Raihan is the only Trainer out there I consider a real rival. He's that good, you know!"

Also Route 9: "And there I go again! Sorry, but I suppose this is no time for me to be stopping for a chat. There's a bit of trouble here with my name on it. But don't you worry about a thing! The unbeatable champion is here to look after things and keep you all safe!"

In Hammerlocke: "Well, I am the unbeatable Champion, after all! But what all is going on here?""Did the chairman know anything?"There must be!/Yeah, we'll help! :"Thanks! I appreciate the thought. But all I could ever ask of you would be that you join me in the greatest final match ever. I'll do my part to make that happen by keeping everybody's future safe. So you just keep on doing your part by winning your way through the Gym Challenge!""Looks like we all know what we need to do. So, you two—clear the Gym Challenge so we can meet again at the Champion Cup!"

So yeah, the player doesn't have the option to ignore the story - he's FORCED to ignore it, by Leon. Because if there's something wrong, well, Leon's gotta go and look into it - and we're constantly forced into just going about our way and doing the Gym Challenge.

That's what the story actually forces you to do in terms of gameplay. PsychoLogical was talking about actually having to do something in the story - and you bring up subtle hints that, yes, enrich the narrative, but in terms of gameplay literally don't add anything in particular. The story doesn't require you to do anything other then the Gym Challenge, aside from kicking some Yell-butt, which turns out isn't even related to the narrative.

Remember Gold/Silver/Crystal? Where you and Lance team up to defeat Team Rocket in the Mahogany Hideout? I hate to disagree with you so fiercely on this, but in terms of 'anything story-related standing in your way', in SwSh, Leon is doing all that by himself and removing all obstacles in the game for you and the game is just: finish the gym challenge while Sonia keeps telling you bits of information - knock out a few fanboys that don't come across as threatening - and oh my, at the last part of the league, we're suddenly into storymode. It's all a big 'tell, but don't show' until the end - while in a visual medium, you should be showing and not just telling. And in a game, it should be the gamer partaking in the action, but in SwSh, we're constantly left out of the loop.

There's no defending the SwSh-gameplay/storymode when we had Black and White and B2W2 which did narrative and gameplay flawlessly. Yes, I missed the gym challenge in Sun/Moon, but now that we have it back, I still do kinda want a meaningful villain-plot where it's me leading the charge instead of a pompous champion doing everything.

Sword and Shield is The Lord of the Ring-game where you want to be playing as Aragorn and you're forced to play as Merry for the entire game - and get to be Frodo in the final level.
Leon excitedly saying he'll take care of stuff didn't really mean the player was ignoring it.

For the last time, "ignoring" means someone knows about something but chooses not to do anything about it.

Or are you saying every time a person in real life trying to learn about an incident but is told by police officers to go the other way is trying to ignore the situation?

People aren't forced to ignore in such situations. They're told to buzz off (in a kind way), but the event will still be in their heads.

(And on Leon doing the dirty work, it's actually a well done thing, because he's meant to represent the 10-year old kid who won it big and still has that reckless heart to save the region from threats...on the side.)
 
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Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
Who is the one no one really knows about?
Eternatus, no one really knows much about Eternatus other than the fact that it's involved in the Darkest Day and has a lot of energy.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
How the hell was the game encouraging the player to ignore the story.
Leon: "I already told you, didn't I? Keep your eye on the goal! And for you, that's winning the Gym Challenge!"

(When the player literally asks to be part of the story): "Thanks! I appreciate the thought. But all I could ever ask of you would be that you join me in the greatest final match ever. I'll do my part to make that happen by keeping everybody's future safe. So you just keep on doing your part by winning your way through the Gym Challenge!"
 

AuraChannelerChris

"How did you manage to faint while standing up?"
Leon: "I already told you, didn't I? Keep your eye on the goal! And for you, that's winning the Gym Challenge!"

(When the player literally asks to be part of the story): "Thanks! I appreciate the thought. But all I could ever ask of you would be that you join me in the greatest final match ever. I'll do my part to make that happen by keeping everybody's future safe. So you just keep on doing your part by winning your way through the Gym Challenge!"
Then the player actually gets involved in being the hero and fixes things, right when Leon gets overwhelmed.

Leon was in over his head. Dude needed to retire. Ha ha.
 

Nikita Dracovish

THE NUMBERS, MASON!
I dunno, Pokemon has had a really weird relation to reality in general, and their flipfloppiness and canon examples (war! genocide! dead-end retail jobs!) don't help on that end. The rotating cast of writers doesn't help any, either, especially when they were initially going for 'real world, but with Pokemon'.

Also, does anyone find it weird the subs for Sonia make her sound like an air-headed Valley Girl?
 
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