"Pocket Monsters Sun & Moon", starting November 17th

[satopi]

The Snowbelle arc also felt a bit damaged in that regard since it sounded like Serena was essentially demanding Ash be a stepford smiler so she can continue admiring him. Yeah, she did at least feel bad about it and admit she takes his good side for granted, but at the end of it Ash went back to being perfect and enabled her. It actually gives a creepy undertone to him underplaying his league loss since the last time he took loss badly one of his friends chewed him out. If she can't handle him at his worst, she doesn't deserve him at his best.

I also feel at times it was just generically happy go lucky. Ash didn't actually feel that connected with the lot of them. I would have loved to see him more devoted to them, he was the leader this time, he needed trials as the adult of the group. Maybe he could have tutored or been overprotective of Serena, or play bully hunter for Clemont whenever his bungled inventions or geekiness made him a laughing stock.

I watched the whole episode last week and Serena at first was saying about how she understands how he feels and if he needed someone to talk to then she's here (of course she was cut off with Ash disagreeing with her) and then she got mad about how he wasn't his usual self, the one that she admired and that's pretty much where Ash went back to his normal self a few seconds later of looking dumbfound like it wasn't obvious from the start. I think he was a bit more devoted to Clemont more than the others (hence the bromance) but for some reason, he doesn't comfort people for long. It would've seem a bit out of character for Ash to play bully whenever Clemont created an invention (I mean he loved Dento's hobbies and Iris/Dento's shenanigans. I wouldn't see why he couldn't get into Clemont's hobby.) Speaking of which, I think Ash's favorite subject might be SCIENCE!!

 

[DatsRight]

No, no, I said he'd play bully HUNTER, a guy who will not stand for bullying (if sometimes to hypocritical aggressiveness) and will always stand up for the little guy. It seemed rather in line with Ash's usual character, if mostly more for Pokemon and the whole jock and nerd friendship had potential.

Hell, Ash as a whole is just WAY more emotional with Pokemon than with people. That itself could have made an interesting sub plot.

 

[U.N. Owen]

No, no, I said he'd play bully HUNTER, a guy who will not stand for bullying (if sometimes to hypocritical aggressiveness) and will always stand up for the little guy. It seemed rather in line with Ash's usual character, if mostly more for Pokemon and the whole jock and nerd friendship had potential.

I never got why being aggressive to bullies was such a bad thing. You want to stop it from ever happening again.

As for Ash's emotional nature with pokemon, I don't see it. He's either spouting some form of "how dare you" or being really passionate about how awesome, strange, or interesting they are.

 

[DatsRight]

A certain level aggression is where some examples of the archetype gain infamy. eg. a guy who gives some obnoxious brat five consecutive beatings for making fun of some kid's weight is calling out a bully, but hardly in a proportionate way. It was why Warner Bros were starting to fear Bugs Bunny was turning into a bully against Elmer Fudd as well. This is maybe off topic since I didn't suggest Ash had to be this level of bully hunter.

Ash completely broke down over leaving Goodra. I just don't see him crying over parting ways with Serena, Clemont or Bonnie. Hell I doubt even Serena will cry over parting ways with him. He also seemed very in touch with Froakie's anger over Fletchling upsetting Bonnie, while with human companions he's often oblivious to their emotions. Not to mention how self loathing he was for letting Greninja get beaten against Wulfric, even apologising to his comatose state.

 

[volcanionmaster123]

I think it was the whole setup of her speech against him, which poorly worded sounded like 'You're meant to act how I perceive you'.

That proves my point more tho. Both of them were at fault cause they both said things that they normally wouldn't have all cause they were emotional at that time.

And speaking of which how the hell does this thread's topics keep going back to Serena? Am I missing something here?

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

That proves my point more tho. Both of them were at fault cause they both said things that they normally wouldn't have all cause they were emotional at that time.

And speaking of which how the hell does this thread's topics keep going back to Serena? Am I missing something here?

Maybe people seeing my Serena avatars in this thread makes them think and post about her haha

 

[Power Up]

I really don't get this, so you want people to be at there worst? You want people to get all depressed and all sulky? What Serena did was snap Ash out of it, no one wants to be at their worst. Serena tried to get Ash to his best, so she can handle him at his worst.

We are talking about arguments and stuff like that. I consider this one of the Crown Jewels in Amourshipping and a really good serious argument.

 

[U.N. Owen]

A certain level aggression is where some examples of the archetype gain infamy. eg. a guy who gives some obnoxious brat five consecutive beatings for making fun of some kid's weight is calling out a bully, but hardly in a proportionate way. It was why Warner Bros were starting to fear Bugs Bunny was turning into a bully against Elmer Fudd as well.

Ash completely broke down over leaving Goodra. I just don't see him crying over parting ways with Serena, Clemont or Bonnie. Hell I doubt even Serena will cry over parting ways with him.

Being bullied as a kid and putting said bully in a wheelchair by breaking both of his legs may have harmed my judgement, but I see where you are coming from. As for the Goodra part, I think pokemon would be better off if Ash was trapped in some woods for five episodes interacting with the pokemon. It certainly would be an interesting plot to follow as Ash would show many different emotions and possible character depth.

I really don't get this, so you want people to be at there worst? You want people to get all depressed and all sulky? What Serena did was snap Ash out of it, no one wants to be at their worst. Serena tried to get Ash to his best, so she can handle him at his worst.

We are talking about arguments and stuff like that. I consider this one of the Crown Jewels in Amourshipping and a really good serious argument.

It's not if she did it but how she did it. To get a person in that state to talk, you must trick them, something Serena didn't do.

 

[satopi]

No, no, I said he'd play bully HUNTER, a guy who will not stand for bullying (if sometimes to hypocritical aggressiveness) and will always stand up for the little guy. It seemed rather in line with Ash's usual character, if mostly more for Pokemon and the whole jock and nerd friendship had potential.

Hell, Ash as a whole is just WAY more emotional with Pokemon than with people. That itself could have made an interesting sub plot.

Ah I'm sorry. >_>

I think Ash connects much more with Pokemon. I'm not sure if he's per say, more emotional with them. I always thought that he admired and loved them. Maybe much stronger bonds towards Pokemon than people.

 

[DatsRight]

I'd like to see some sort of situation where he is FORCED to bond and care for a human the same way he does a Pokemon. Like he is alone with a companion and they are incapacitated or inconsolable. Dealing with emotions from a companion he could usually leave to another team member. Or maybe a fantasy situation where one is turned into a Pokemon or some other transformation.

Hell Serena should just find that Johto witch and turn herself into a Dunsparce, Ash would be all over her. XD

 

[U.N. Owen]

Ah I'm sorry. >_>

I think Ash connects much more with Pokemon. I'm not sure if he's per say, more emotional with them. I always thought that he admired and loved them. Maybe much stronger bonds towards Pokemon than people.

He certainly is. His emotional bond is so strong that Ash-Greninja exists. How many Ash-Mistys, Ash-Brocks, Ash-May, Ash-Dawn, Ash-Iris, Ash-Cilan, Ash-Clemonts, and Ash-Serenas run around?

 

[volcanionmaster123]

Maybe people seeing my Serena avatars in this thread makes them think and post about her haha

Yeah but just the amount of times she's been mentioned here if I didn't know any better I would've thought she was confirmed to go to Alola or whatever. But then again maybe part of the reason why is cause besides the trailer and some scans, we haven't had a ton of info yet

 

[satopi]

Ash can connect and understand people though. (mostly boys) He understood how Alan felt even when he betrayed him, knew how to comfort May when she was crying among other things, how Max felt sad when the group was going their separate ways, he cried when he left Brock and Misty, and missed Iris when she left. He can understand people just as much as Pokemon but he feels a certain bond with each of his Pokemon. (well... Pikachu, Greninja, and Goodra)

Edit: Forgot to mention he sensed when Dawn was feeling down too and would've comforted her.

 

[DatsRight]

We haven't seen that element nearly as much in XY however. For Serena he's usually blind to any emotion she feels at the point, even non romantic.

Concerning her, I don't really see Serena coming now, even with the excuse they're 'hiding her' they've put too many new supporting characters on the table. I could see there being a tease in the upcoming XYZ episodes to play with this, but no pay off (eg. Serena wanting to go to Alola but being refused somehow).

It is kind of a shame, she didn't get used fully at all in XY and I like the idea of Ash tagging along a previous companion and getting them accustomed to his usual routine. It may have even brought on this aforementioned more protective side to him since she would be brought along on his account and thus technically his responsibility.

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

I hope that at the very least, Ash's slapstick antics show off the fun, dumb and goofy side to his personality, but still allow him to show off being a leader and a good trainer with a heart for his Pokemon. I think they can find a good balance of that.

I guess that a mixture of comedy and maturity when it comes to Ash is the best we can hope for in the Sun and Moon saga, but part of me expects that we'll mainly see the funny side of Ash based on the info so far and also cuz the writing staff seems to struggle with balancing him out.

 

[Power Up]

I'd like to see some sort of situation where he is FORCED to bond and care for a human the same way he does a Pokemon. Like he is alone with a companion and they are incapacitated or inconsolable. Dealing with emotions from a companion he could usually leave to another team member. Or maybe a fantasy situation where one is turned into a Pokemon or some other transformation.

Hell Serena should just find that Johto witch and turn herself into a Dunsparce, Ash would be all over her. XD

Your above statement is never gonna happen, even though I want it to. Especially in the SM anime most likely...

 

[Xenon Blue]

I think people are over-analyzing this. All the writers wanted to portray was "Hey look, Ash is bonding with Pokemon! You know what, you should do that too! You know how? Just buy this piece of chip enclosed in a fancy case for just $xx.xx! Oh, Ash is not bonding deep with actual human? Who cares, didn't your parents tell you how to do that in the first place?" The writers don't give one damn on Ash's interaction with other people, so they just make him friendly towards all of them basically, as that takes the least effort while still looking relatable and "cool".

 

[Little Hero]

I think people are over-analyzing this. All the writers wanted to portray was "Hey look, Ash is bonding with Pokemon! You know what, you should do that too! You know how? Just buy this piece of chip enclosed in a fancy case for just $xx.xx! Oh, Ash is not bonding deep with actual human? Who cares, didn't your parents tell you how to do that in the first place?" The writers don't give one damn on Ash's interaction with other people, so they just make him friendly towards all of them basically, as that takes the least effort while still looking relatable and "cool".

Kinda sad but true.

If they made Ash put effort in at least one human relationship instead of the the 'I love Pokemon!' attitude he has 24/7, it will make for incredible development (that will probably get washed away in three years when a new season arrives).

The main problem with Ash is that he seems to understand Pokemon more than he does humans...not necessarily a bad thing, but its not a good thing either.

Perhaps the school setting in Alola is meant for him to interact more with his classmates and form close bonds beyond the whole "You like Pokemon and I like Pokemon so let's be super friends" thing he has going for him. I mean, make him have friends with someone that doesn't care for Pokemon...not make Ash make the person think that his way of thinking is wrong, or something.

 

[DatsRight]

I get the simplistic context, but it would still be nice to get some more developed moments with his band of teammates, especially when they try boosting things like Amourshipping (which I expect they will expire and forget about in about two episodes).

 

[sandtreamftw]

Those stale character interactions were mostly present in BW and XY. Prior to those seasons, Ash had dynamic interactions with human characters. Gary, Dawn, Misty, and Paul are examples of characters Ash has had meaningful moments with, and he view them as important figures, regardless on his stance of them. I mean he use to atleast. In XY, Ash has two things in common with Gary, a fully evolved water starter and cheer leaders.