"Pocket Monsters Sun & Moon", starting November 17th

[Dash Beatum]

They tried to make Ash more "his age" and goofy in BW and that display of personality didn't work for many of us.

XY Ash might have been 'boring' to some people but a boring character usually gets a lot less irritating as time passes than a character who always makes exaggerated reactions and behaves childishly. No matter how realistic it is for the character at their age, children characters who act like children aren't pleasant to watch.

This is 110% objectively true. It's terrible writing to have a character who was constantly growing mature to just regress back into acting like a little toddler. Not to mention it's pointless, bland and boring. All it is a one-dimensional character. XY handled Ash the best since that's how someone's who's saved the world a hundred times SHOULD act, competent, mature, and humble, while still being genuinely interesting and not overreacting to every little thing like a baby...Not like the one-dimensional idiot like he was in OS, BW, and now SM it seems...It's a shame the writers want to regress Ash back into a terrible and completely boring character for whatever reason...

 

[satopi]

it's definitely gonna be interesting to see how the anime handles the largest main cast we've seen yet. i also wonder if ash and his main friends will interact with the other students of the school (maybe as CotDs?)

I want this to happen as well!

 

[mystic9899]

This is 110% objectively true. It's terrible writing to have a character who was constantly growing mature to just regress back into acting like a little toddler. Not to mention it's pointless, bland and boring. All it is a one-dimensional character. XY handled Ash the best since that's how someone's who's saved the world a hundred times SHOULD act, competent, mature, and humble, while still being genuinely interesting and not overreacting to every little thing like a baby...Not like the one-dimensional idiot like he was in OS, BW, and now SM it seems...It's a shame the writers want to regress Ash back into a terrible and completely boring character for whatever reason...

more like 200% opinion. there are many people who like comedic ash and many people who like serious ash. you got your fanservice in xy; you want more badass ash, then rewatch it.

 

[Blue Saturday]

This is 110% objectively true.

I think you need to relearn the meaning of "objectively."

It's terrible writing to have a character who was constantly growing mature to just regress back into acting like a little toddler.

I don't remember him sipping on a binky and crying or randomly snapping at people or getting into fights with others, he didn't "act" like a little toddler. You just find "strong" interchangable with "mature" and because XY!Ash won a ton he was "mature" to you.

t to mention it's pointless, bland and boring. All it is a one-dimensional character. XY handled Ash the best since that's how someone's who's saved the world a hundred times SHOULD act, competent, mature, and humble, while still being genuinely interesting and not overreacting to every little thing like a baby...Not like the one-dimensional idiot like he was in OS, BW, and now SM it seems...It's a shame the writers want to regress Ash back into a terrible and completely boring character for whatever reason...

No offense but all I hear is, "WAAAAAH, I CAN'T WATCH THE ANIME IF SATOSHI ISN'T FLAWLESS!!! WAAAAH WHO WILL I SELF-INSERT AS NOW??? WAAAAH EMOTIONS ARE FOR KIDS!!" I honestly don't get it, I thought after XYZ many people finally understood Pokemon anime is a kids show and for children first and foremost and Satoshi isn't someone's wishfulfilment character. He can be as "mature" as you want him to be, he will never win, if he's in the show I want to watch a character with actual substance and emotions besides a collection of shounen tropes copy-pasted on a bland slate. But then again those characters make for the best audience surrogates and avatars since they have such a minuscule amount of characterizations and depth anyway.

 

[Soniman]

I'm worried the anime can handle that many characters at once.

them being shallow and underdeveloped (even for this show) is my main worry, esp when tomioka is gone and the focus is "comedy1!"

 

[mystic9899]

them being shallow and underdeveloped (even for this show) is my main worry, esp when tomioka is gone and the focus is "comedy1!"

i think the difference here is that unlike past series, all of the main cast have the same goal, which is to graduate from the school. so they can develop together.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Kinda nice that they aren't showcasing any Ash captures just yet, makes speculating more fun that way : )

 

[DatsRight]

The large majority of 'comical Ash' fans want him to keep his competence to some degree anyway, just they want him to maintain it in a way that he isn't too overly serious and mature and keeps some of his childish foibles.

It wasn't just the case of him being serious in XY anyway. He was as one track as the comical Ashes, just in a sense of always spouting goody goody quips and lacking much in the sense of a wit or anything interesting to contribute when there was no action or someone in a bind. People note this last Serena episode as the first time he really takes note to emotions and bonding to a non-Pokemon character instead of just being generically nice and upbeat.

 

[satopi]

them being shallow and underdeveloped (even for this show) is my main worry, esp when tomioka is gone and the focus is "comedy1!"

Tomioka wasn't the only "good" writer on the show. It's all a team effort. He's just on vacation lol. I'm sure the SM anime is well cared for. Anyways, my main worry would be if the characters would even have different relationships with other characters and if everyone will get the focus when it's needed. Most of the focus will be on Ash and Pikachu but since the classmates don't particularly have stated any goals, I'd like to get to know them on a personal level, their problems and weaknesses showcased on a time to time basis. But also their natural abilities and skills.

 

[Blue Saturday]

The large majority of 'comical Ash' fans want him to keep his competence to some degree anyway, just they want him to maintain it in a way that he isn't too overly serious and mature and keeps some of his childish foibles.

Unlike most of the "give me muh perfect ash!" supporters, I see more of a middle ground with the "personality" Satoshi wanters. Not one has said they want Satoshi to be a poor battler or whatever, that they simply want some form of characterization and personality from him. Speaking for myself, I don't see battle competence and personality as being directly at odds with one another. My issue was with XY!Satoshi that was all he had, power and perfection and his "competence" dragged a plethora of other characters down all just to glorify him as some strong shounen hero and oasis of life and hope. So yeah, if it's a choice, I'll take this Satoshi over XY any day, I want to feel good about Lana and the other characters' shots at screen time and development and battle time with Satoshi not interfering in it negatively or having them job to him or worship his every move.

XY's cast had a strong Satoshi but everyone else got the short end of the stick for it, only Shouta and partially Serena came out looking alright and that's even a stretch.

 

[Satomine Night]

This is 110% objectively true. It's terrible writing to have a character who was constantly growing mature to just regress back into acting like a little toddler. Not to mention it's pointless, bland and boring. All it is a one-dimensional character. XY handled Ash the best since that's how someone's who's saved the world a hundred times SHOULD act, competent, mature, and humble, while still being genuinely interesting and not overreacting to every little thing like a baby...Not like the one-dimensional idiot like he was in OS, BW, and now SM it seems...It's a shame the writers want to regress Ash back into a terrible and completely boring character for whatever reason...

I respectfully disagree. OS and BW Ash were far from one-dimensional. He was an idiot, yes, but he was an idiot who showed a wide range emotions, who reacted in various ways to the world around him, and who grew as a person. I call that three-dimensional, not one-dimensional, and I certainly don't call that boring. He acted like a young boy, which is what he is.

XY Ash was competent and mature, but he still had moments where he overreacted to things around him like an ordinary 10-year-old boy would. He threw a temper tantrum when he found out Viola wasn't at her Gym. He got super excited at Clemont's inventions. He was so excited to be in Kalos that he shouted at the top of his lungs and then proceeded to fall down the stairs.

XY&Z Ash, on the other hand, was more of a typical shounen anime character. The childish moments were sparser and the bad*** moments were more frequent. As much as I enjoyed XY&Z Ash, there were a few times when I wished he emoted more; I wanted to see more of the temperamental, emotional Ash - the Ash who can be moved to tears (tears of joy, frustration, or sadness). I like a competent, strong Ash, but I also like an Ash who acts like the young boy that he is. He may have saved the world a hundred times, but he is still 10 years old. His brain is only capable of maturing so much.

 

[DatsRight]

To tell you the truth there are other positive traits I value about Ash over his competence anyway. Even BW did a good job maintaining his selfless streak and making him rather laid back, which felt like some upholding of character development from his original self absorbed and vindictive tempered depiction. I'd be more annoyed if Sun/Moon went back to making him an arrogant jerk to everyone than if they just made him bumbling but still kinder like in BW.

And I agree with the above comment. People forget how far 'development' can realistically take a character. No matter what experiences you go through, it's unlikely you'll just keep maturing up to the point you are a Purity Sue with no remaining flaws.

 

[Navin]

It wasn't just the case of him being serious in XY anyway. He was as one track as the comical Ashes, just in a sense of always spouting goody goody quips and lacking much in the sense of a wit or anything interesting to contribute when there was no action or someone in a bind.

Why ruin any character development that led him to be more mature/mellowed out? Blame the writers for not putting him in enough funny circumstances or minimizing the intergroup banter.

 

[Blue Saturday]

I feel like most peoples' hopes and opinions on the anime hinge on Satoshi, why? Because he's their "childhood crush / hero" he grew up with these ancient fans, but it bothers fans so much that he doesn't age, has no "girlfriend," hasn't fathered children nor will ever win a league. So they lash out at any form of "childish" behavior they deem as not okay. Why? Because a good amount of fans, especially males one watch Satoshi for the sake of wishfulfilment. Satoshi is an audience surrogate but XY turned that role up to 11, it bothers people seeing Satoshi deadpan and act kiddish and possibly acting flawed in a flawed way, not an "edgy, cool and angsty" way and possibly losing battles because most of them see themselves in Satoshi.

Hence why XY was such a wet dream with the addition of pretty "waifu, qt, gf" Serena who is heads-over-heels for him. If not Serena many before were rabid lovers of "Haruka, Hikari or Kasumi" for similar reasons. Basically, he's like a self-insert for many of these old fans. The Bella Swan of this franchise if one could say. It completely shatters many peoples' minds when they're told that Pokemon anime isn't for them, is for kids, Satoshi is a kid and the show is based around marketing aimed at elementary level children because the anime and Satoshi are used as a way for old fans to give themselves wishfulfilment. Just look at all the casuals who keep yelling at PokeAni stans about how he'll never win a league and find this fanbase to be cancerous and delusional? They're not blind to what the show is or who Satoshi is as a character.

 

[DatsRight]

Blame the writers for not putting him in enough funny circumstances or minimizing the intergroup banter.

Which isn't a lot of Sun/Moon's humour coming from in the trailers rather than him supposedly just being an idiot?

 

[Navin]

I feel like most peoples' hopes and opinions on the anime hinge on Satoshi, why? Because he's their "childhood crush / hero" he grew up with these ancient fans, but it bothers fans so much that he doesn't age, has no "girlfriend," hasn't fathered children nor will ever win a league. So they lash out at any form of "childish" behavior they deem as not okay. Why? Because a good amount of fans, especially males one watch Satoshi for the sake of wishfulfilment. Satoshi is an audience surrogate but XY turned that role up to 11, it bothers people seeing Satoshi deadpan and act kiddish and possibly acting flawed in a flawed way, not an "edgy, cool and angsty" way and possibly losing battles because most of them see themselves in Satoshi. Basically, he's like a self-insert for many of these old fans. The Bella Swan of this franchise if one could say. It completely shatters many peoples' minds when they're told that Pokemon anime isn't for them, is for kids, Satoshi is a kid and the show is based around marketing aimed at elementary level children.

Or......people just appreciate his character progression from OS to DP/XY, and don't want 20 years of episodes depicting that overall growth thrown down the drain.

But of course, I'm just "self-inserting" aren't I?

Which isn't a lot of Sun/Moon's humour coming from in the trailers rather than him supposedly just being an idiot?

Perhaps, it remains to be seen how his character and competency turns out.

 

[Blue Saturday]

Or......people just appreciate his character progression from OS to DP/XY, and don't want 20 years of episodes depicting that overall growth thrown down the drain.

But of course, I'm just "self-inserting" aren't I?

There are some who aren't delusional, but you can't deny, it does seem as though many PokeAni stans feel "personally" attacked by criticisms aimed at Satoshi or the writers choices with his character, it was painfully obvious much of the series "continuity" didn't matter because its always been very loose and the marketing and Satoshi's recyclability as a character take priority every time which bothers many who project themselves onto these ten-year-old children. Just look at these mid-twenty to thirty somethings who cried over the Kalos League and their flavor-of-the-week girl shippings not coming into fruition. It's telling after a while. At some point, you gotta realize it's a cartoon meant for children and getting so pissy and melancholic over the nature of the show pandering to children isn't a bit suspicious?

 

[Remix2]

them being shallow and underdeveloped (even for this show) is my main worry, esp when tomioka is gone and the focus is "comedy1!"

Ya it appears that we might lose the character and plot driven episodes(or any serious moments in general) form this series if tomioka is gone.

 

[satopi]

Ash has always been an idiot. Including XY&Z Ash. You'd think maturity would heighten his intelligence lol. But really, I don't want Ash to win Gym battles just because the plot demanded for him to win. I want to see him training (not for an entire episode like they did in DP but to DP's credit, it worked out very well) and work his way up to that win. Does Ash's competence mean to some people to keep winning (almost) every battle? I like it when he experiments with different tactics and strategies. But does he have to try it out on the first take in the real battle (and somehow wins in the end) instead of in a practice battle just to see if it'll work out.

 

[Soniman]

Ash competency seems to usually be established in the first battle of a saga, and we dont really know when thats comming yet