Pocket Monsters XY Character Review Thread

[Blue Saturday]

And yet when it comes to Ash you say Pokémon training, Pokémon development, and becoming a trainer don't count as character development?

Character development is change as a person, Ash doesn't change. Learning new battle techniques is not changing as a character as much as it is just furthering his battle skills.

 

[KumaPanda]

Wait, does that mean we finally get a "rival group" who travels together?

Heh.
I think it would be great if the rivals weren't so linear. Perhaps Trevor will inspire Serena to use her Pokedex more, or Shauna and Clemont will become friends like in the games, or Bonnie thinks Tierno's "dancing" battle style is awesome and tries to teach her Dedenne how to dance.

If that happens, then my wish for a group of rivals will come true! Too bad I'm not expecting much from the trio since they already have a mediocre dynamic in the games. Let's be fair here, the only rivals in XY that actively played a role in the plot was Shauna and your rival. Tierno and Trevor hardly showed up to play a part int he plot. It was Shauna who lured Team Flare away from her and helped you unlock a door.

Ooh, I bet Trevor and Clemont will have a good relation. Clemont might try to invent something that helps track pokemon's habitats for Trevor or they can exchange knowledge in pokemon. I think Bonnie would love Tierno for his dances. I'm not sure where Serena might fall, but she should be fine with Shauna because they can talk about how they cherish their experiences on pokemon journeys. Maybe Shauna will help Serena become more active in pokemon related things or trying new activities in general.

 

[TheFonz]

Character development is change as a person, Ash doesn't change. Learning new battle techniques is not changing as a character as much as it is just furthering his battle skills.

This is why I'm asking why Serena's skills improving count as character development in your opinion. I think it depends on what happens and isn't all or nothing as you say. The problem with Ash is he does get development throughout each region, he just loses a certain amount of it at the start of each series. When we get stuff like Ash's bad loss against Brawly, random Elite Four members teaching Ash a lesson, the entire Ash and Paul rivalry, etc it's still character development tied into Ash's goal.

So what I mean with Ash is that it happens, but rarely gets brought up again afterwards. So it's unfair to say that Ash gets absolutely no character development and his battle skills or techniques increasing don't count, but Serena improving does count. Now I get that Serena is basically at LV1 in battle skills, but what makes this a character thing when we haven't been given any information or backstory why she doesn't battle? Not having a goal doesn't prevent you from getting battle skills.

 

[zhixun]

If that happens, then my wish for a group of rivals will come true! Too bad I'm not expecting much from the trio since they already have a mediocre dynamic in the games. Let's be fair here, the only rivals in XY that actively played a role in the plot was Shauna and your rival. Tierno and Trevor hardly showed up to play a part int he plot. It was Shauna who lured Team Flare away from her and helped you unlock a door.

Ooh, I bet Trevor and Clemont will have a good relation. Clemont might try to invent something that helps track pokemon's habitats for Trevor or they can exchange knowledge in pokemon. I think Bonnie would love Tierno for his dances. I'm not sure where Serena might fall, but she should be fine with Shauna because they can talk about how they cherish their experiences on pokemon journeys. Maybe Shauna will help Serena become more active in pokemon related things or trying new activities in general.

Sana in the games is not that active so I suppose she will do other things in the anime. Probably the activities that is not Pokémon related I guess.

 

[Blue Saturday]

This is why I'm asking why Serena's skills improving count as character development in your opinion.

Reread my post:

Neither Satoshi nor Serena have any character development, both are largely static characters and even then I don't see how that will impact the rivals' development. If anything it can help them by interacting with people who can work as adversity to them, for Satoshi it'll just further the group one of his Pokemon or something. For Serena it could be character development or her Fennekin growing more competent as a battler or both.

I never said Fennekin growing stronger was character development, take notice to the "or" smacked in the middle.

I think it depends on what happens and isn't all or nothing as you say. The problem with Ash is he does get development throughout each region, he just loses a certain amount of it at the start of each series.

When we get stuff like Ash's bad loss against Brawly, random Elite Four members teaching Ash a lesson, the entire Ash and Paul rivalry, etc it's still character development tied into Ash's goal.

Nah, I disagree. His experience with Paul didn’t change him. Cut out that whole period of his life with Paul and you wouldn’t feel you missed anything. It is indeed a flaw of the show as a whole, but also a reason why trying to foist the Ash-Paul rivalry as something bigger than it was should not have been attempted.

So what I mean with Ash is that it happens, but rarely gets brought up again afterwards. So it's unfair to say that Ash gets absolutely no character development and his battle skills or techniques increasing don't count, but Serena improving does count. Now I get that Serena is basically at LV1 in battle skills, but what makes this a character thing when we haven't been given any information or backstory why she doesn't battle? Not having a goal doesn't prevent you from getting battle skills.

I'm not saying Serena's battling skills improving is CD, if they do good for her. But it isn't CD. If her Fennekin becomes stronger it isn't character development but it would be awesome to see her more proactive and growing as a trainer. I don't expect much development as a character considering her character has been largely static up until this point with her character flaws not being portrayed as character flaws in-universe. Like for example, there are a number of hints she isn't too hot at understanding people and Pokemon(Pokemon especially) and reading their moods and such but it isn't treated as a flaw from an in-universe perspective so it isn't a character flaw that's going to be developed or acted upon.

But I do think Serena's going to develop before he does, solely because Ash is a stagnate character and I honestly don't see that changing.

 

[Lorde]

But I do think Serena's going to develop before he does, solely because Ash is a stagnate character and I honestly don't see that changing.

I don't know, they seem like two peas in a pod in terms of actual character development (or lack thereof). I can't see either of them developing properly anytime soon, which ironically means that they're perfect for each other imo.

 

[zhixun]

This is why I'm asking why Serena's skills improving count as character development in your opinion. I think it depends on what happens and isn't all or nothing as you say. The problem with Ash is he does get development throughout each region, he just loses a certain amount of it at the start of each series. When we get stuff like Ash's bad loss against Brawly, random Elite Four members teaching Ash a lesson, the entire Ash and Paul rivalry, etc it's still character development tied into Ash's goal.

So what I mean with Ash is that it happens, but rarely gets brought up again afterwards. So it's unfair to say that Ash gets absolutely no character development and his battle skills or techniques increasing don't count, but Serena improving does count. Now I get that Serena is basically at LV1 in battle skills, but what makes this a character thing when we haven't been given any information or backstory why she doesn't battle? Not having a goal doesn't prevent you from getting battle skills.

May be Serena is really not interested in battling which has not mentioned yet. As I said before do not force anyone for Pokémon battles if he/ she does not like it.

 

[KumaPanda]

I don't know, they seem like two peas in a pod in terms of actual character development (or lack thereof). I can't see either of them developing properly anytime soon, which ironically means that they're perfect for each other imo.

As cute as they may look aesthetically and potentially, it's hard to imagine them ever being together. Not because the anime hardly touches romance, but because I hardly see Ash and Serena on the same page. Ash relates to people if they battle or if they have a deep bone with their pokemon, something Serena hasn't really shown. We see an example of Serena being more excited about Korrina's Lucario sharing matching bracelets with its trainer than the bond of Lucario and Korrina. I doubt Ash can relate to that. For Ash and Serena to form a close relation (friends or romantic), wouldn't they have to share something in common? The anime seems better at making shippings when it's unintentional than when it's intentional.

 

[XxSymbolxX]

As cute as they may look aesthetically and potentially, it's hard to imagine them ever being together. Not because the anime hardly touches romance, but because I hardly see Ash and Serena on the same page. Ash relates to people if they battle or if they have a deep bone with their pokemon, something Serena hasn't really shown. We see an example of Serena being more excited about Korrina's Lucario sharing matching bracelets with its trainer than the bond of Lucario and Korrina. I doubt Ash can relate to that. For Ash and Serena to form a close relation (friends or romantic), wouldn't they have to share something in common? The anime seems better at making shippings when it's unintentional than when it's intentional.

Well that's why Ash doesn't have any feelings for her right now, and a lot of us hope that could be a motive (rather consciously or unconsciously) for Serena to start battling/coordinating: so she can bond with Ash on a deeper level, through both their love for pokemon

 

[Lorde]

Well that's why Ash doesn't have any feelings for her right now, and a lot of us hope that could be a motive (rather consciously or unconsciously) for Serena to start battling/coordinating: so she can bond with Ash on a deeper level, through both their love for pokemon

Sadly it's been 30 episodes and Serena still hasn't asked Ash for help battling and training, so she probably never will imo. She'll have to make progress on her own instead.

 

[crystalphoenix88]

May be Serena is really not interested in battling which has not mentioned yet. As I said before do not force anyone for Pokémon battles if he/ she does not like it.

I'd be perfectly fine with this. all of Ash's previous female companions have had Pokemon battling as a part of their goal (some regular battles, some Contest battles), so I like the idea of trying something different with Serena.

she's a young girl venturing out into the world for the first time. she acquired her first Pokemon, she's mentored her friends on Rhyhorn racing, she's overcome her fear/discomfort around camping, she's learned how to fish, she's practiced her baking, she's made a PokeVision video. she's technically already accomplished what she set out to do by meeting up with Ash (and gaving him back the handkerchief), so now she's just going with the flow and trying random stuff here-and-there. I guess her implicit over-arching goal is to win Ash's heart, but she's growing as a person in the meantime too. just because her skills as a Pokemon trainer aren't improving doesn't mean she isn't gaining anything from this journey.

 

[Cresselia92]

she's a young girl venturing out into the world for the first time. she acquired her first Pokemon, she's mentored her friends on Rhyhorn racing, she's overcome her fear/discomfort around camping, she's learned how to fish, she's practiced her baking, she's made a PokeVision video. she's technically already accomplished what she set out to do by meeting up with Ash (and gaving him back the handkerchief), so now she's just going with the flow and trying random stuff here-and-there. I guess her implicit over-arching goal is to win Ash's heart, but she's growing as a person in the meantime too. just because her skills as a Pokemon trainer aren't improving doesn't mean she isn't gaining anything from this journey.

Pretty much this.

I think it is refreshing to have a character who isn't battle-oriented like all the others, except Tracie.

Sure, I'd like to see her battle more often, but I think that strengthening her bond with Fennekin is equally important.

 

[Emperor Empoleon]

Serena discussion is like a boomerang.

Makes me wonder, how would folks react to a change in her direction?

 

[CyberCubed]

Serena discussion is like a boomerang.

Makes me wonder, how would folks react to a change in her direction?

At this point anything she does would be baby steps. Even battling another trainer, or *gasp* capturing a pokemon.

The fact that stuff like battling a trainer or capturing a pokemon....something that is expected routine from every other character...STILL hasn't happened with Serena yet is mind boggling. I mean Serena hasn't even done the "basic" stuff yet...so how can we expect her to do anything important or special?

 

[Blue Saturday]

May be Serena is really not interested in battling which has not mentioned yet. As I said before do not force anyone for Pokémon battles if he/ she does not like it.

It's kind of odd, in a show about Pokemon you figured the leading lady of XY would have something to do with Pokemon. Serena's main issue at the moment is she feels like a tourist and not like she belongs in Pokemon anime. I was expecting some form of innovative writing but I’m still personally growing more impatient at the lack of any deconstruction. From the moment the character took Fennekin she was suppose to be a trainer in her own right. Fennekin is suppose to be training material since it came from a lab but it's honestly treated as a "pet." I suppose XY is going for a "stereotypical" shounen vibe with things, hence the main female being inactive or pretty incompetent in fighting. No, but really. Serena doesn’t care about finding a Pokemon goal.

Since Rhyhorn and Furfrou eps, nothing. This is a Pokemon show and Serena doesn't care about anything Pokemon-related. I could also do without that constant frowning when Ash goes to do something else or says something unpleasing to her too. In rl, expressed jealousy like that is a flaw but it's not treated as one here. Or with the PokePuffs thing, she isn't worried that people think Millefeui's are better she's worried that the girl might like Ash which is somewhat possessive and a bit distasteful for me. The thing about that is, Bonnie feels more like the main girl to me in some areas.

Being interested in Pokemon stuff, apologizing for her behavior, learning new stuff, putting Clemont down but encouraging him, trying herself to fight or be involved in a crisis when she can or at least trying to push others to fight. Serena...doesn't have quite as much, she is doing cute things but hasn't shown the capacity of someone in the lead role and being engrossed in the Pokemon world.

 

[KumaPanda]

It's kind of odd, in a show about Pokemon you figured the leading lady of XY would have something to do with Pokemon. Serena's main issue at the moment is she feels like a tourist and not like she belongs in Pokemon anime. I was expecting some form of innovative writing but I’m still personally growing more impatient at the lack of any deconstruction. From the moment the character took Fennekin she was suppose to be a trainer in her own right. Fennekin is suppose to be training material since it came from a lab but it's honestly treated as a "pet." I suppose XY is going for a "stereotypical" shounen vibe with things, hence the main female being inactive or pretty incompetent in fighting. No, but really. Serena doesn’t care about finding a Pokemon goal.

Since Rhyhorn and Furfrou eps, nothing. This is a Pokemon show and Serena doesn't care about anything Pokemon-related. I could also do without that constant frowning when Ash goes to do something else or says something unpleasing to her too. In rl, expressed jealousy like that is a flaw but it's not treated as one here. Or with the PokePuffs thing, she isn't worried that people think Millefeui's are better she's worried that the girl might like Ash which is somewhat possessive and a bit distasteful for me. The thing about that is, Bonnie feels more like the main girl to me in some areas.

Being interested in Pokemon stuff, apologizing for her behavior, learning new stuff, putting Clemont down but encouraging him, trying herself to fight or be involved in a crisis when she can or at least trying to push others to fight. Serena...doesn't have quite as much, she is doing cute things but hasn't shown the capacity of someone in the lead role and being engrossed in the Pokemon world.

I wish I could give you a reputation for this. I guess that's what bugs me about this particular season. It's a very feel good lucky season where you hardly see the main characters have a flaw being pointed out.

That doesn't mean I want to see the characters constantly having their flaws mentioned, but it would nice game changer if we can at least see one episode that builds around that one flaw. There is so much potential if the writers were to attempt that. Like Ash can be pointed out that he focuses too much on Pikachu, resulting in his Froakie having worse luck in recent battles. Or how Bonnie keeps trying to find a wife for her brother that it causes them to lose sight of something they were supposed to get done in that episode. Maybe Ash at one point notices how cold Serena gets when she gets angry or jealous that it causes them problems of some sort.

 

[crystalphoenix88]

the Pokemon world, every region, is filled with people doing things that aren't Pokemon-centric. there's bakers, teachers, photographers, businessmen, artists, and so on who may own and interact with Pokemon in various ways (like the Orange Islands guy who used his Charmeleon for glassmaking), but never "train" or battle with them the way Ash and Clemont do. I don't believe Serena has to be a Pokemon trainer to belong in the world of Pokemon.

if every female companion of Ash's had been treated this way, just tagging along and doing stereotypical "girl" things like baking and trying to look cute, I'd be over it by now. but in the context of the whole series, Serena is being handled very differently than the 4 girls who preceded her, and I find that refreshing. clearly she's not what everyone wants from the female lead, but as a long-time watcher of the series, I welcome this new approach.

 

[Lorde]

the Pokemon world, every region, is filled with people doing things that aren't Pokemon-centric. there's bakers, teachers, photographers, businessmen, artists, and so on who may own and interact with Pokemon in various ways (like the Orange Islands guy who used his Charmeleon for glassmaking), but never "train" or battle with them the way Ash and Clemont do.

That's different since almost all of them are COTDs. Serena on the other hand will be around for about 3 to 4 years, so she's got to be active with her Pokemon during her time on the show imho.

 

[Navin]

As cute as they may look aesthetically and potentially, it's hard to imagine them ever being together. Not because the anime hardly touches romance, but because I hardly see Ash and Serena on the same page. Ash relates to people if they battle or if they have a deep bone with their pokemon, something Serena hasn't really shown. We see an example of Serena being more excited about Korrina's Lucario sharing matching bracelets with its trainer than the bond of Lucario and Korrina. I doubt Ash can relate to that. For Ash and Serena to form a close relation (friends or romantic), wouldn't they have to share something in common? The anime seems better at making shippings when it's unintentional than when it's intentional.

Serena is a sheltered indoors-type, prim and proper, girly girl. To be quite honest, I really don't see that having much in common with Ash either. But I'm hoping she breaks into a more independent dynamic character.

Serena discussion is like a boomerang.

Makes me wonder, how would folks react to a change in her direction?

They would welcome it.

The fact that stuff like battling a trainer or capturing a pokemon....something that is expected routine from every other character...STILL hasn't happened with Serena yet is mind boggling. I mean Serena hasn't even done the "basic" stuff yet...so how can we expect her to do anything important or special?

Well isn't she making use of her Rhyhorn racing skills in the upcoming movie? Hopefully she's more than just a damsel in distress in the film.

That doesn't mean I want to see the characters constantly having their flaws mentioned, but it would nice game changer if we can at least see one episode that builds around that one flaw. There is so much potential if the writers were to attempt that. Like Ash can be pointed out that he focuses too much on Pikachu, resulting in his Froakie having worse luck in recent battles. Or how Bonnie keeps trying to find a wife for her brother that it causes them to lose sight of something they were supposed to get done in that episode. Maybe Ash at one point notices how cold Serena gets when she gets angry or jealous that it causes them problems of some sort.

That's a problem with XY in general. Flaws are present but aren't treated as flaws. Its tonality is too happy.

 

[crystalphoenix88]

That's different since almost all of them are COTDs. Serena on the other hand will be around for about 3 to 4 years, so she's got to be active with her Pokemon during her time on the show imho.

that's a fair point. a lot of people seem to already be really frustrated and disappointed with how she's being handled, and I certainly don't feel that way about her yet...but maybe come XY100, if Serena still has nothing but Fennekin and doesn't do much besides the occasional baking, outfit coordinating, and random task (a la PokeVision), I'll be fed up with her. maybe not.