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Pokémon Anime Versus Thread v4

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Well, haven't really been here for a long time, but since I have managed to catch up with Pokemon (2019) finally, decided to be back here in these discussions again after witnessing a lot of amusing stuff in the recent episodes (these hypothetical speculation always used to be pretty fun):

So how do people scale Gigachu (Pikachu with Gigantamax) after episode 13 in terms of power level? On what level of strength does it belong after it went head to head with the World Champion's Gigazard, more specifically even forcing Zard to go Giga by overpowering its base form as Gigachu? How does it compare to Ash's other top powerhouses/aces like Greninja, Charizard, Infernape, Sceptile, etc. Has it already sealed it's spot as Ash's #1 in terms of strength?
Base Pikachu was already seen to be more powerful than any Ash's Pokemon except A-G. As of Gigachu he's been more powerful than Base Zard but so was A-G (Base Gardevoir).
We have seen that Base attacks don't work on Gigachu, but that doesn't mean Mega, Z and A-G attacks don't work. We need more feats from Gigachu at least to see how powerful it is. A-G is super speedy which would evade attacks from Gigamons(seeing how Giga can also evade them).

Question for you which I already asked before: SM Peakachu with 10MV attack( vs Tapu Koko) would it beat Gigachu?
Also where do you see Ash's SM team in regard of power? I made several statements that Incineroar surpassed Snorlax but not that much. Naganadal is kinda featless(it beat Lucario who get defeated by Guzzlord easily and lost to TK), but question is Melmetal, Rowlet and Lycanroc(Rowlet is weakest).
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Base Pikachu was already seen to be more powerful than any Ash's Pokemon except A-G. As of Gigachu he's been more powerful than Base Zard but so was A-G (Base Gardevoir).

Hmm, considering that Diantha wasn't battling 100% all-out vs A-G (though A-G did overpower Mega Gardevoir's multi-fused Shadow Ball and was able to inflict serious damage, which indicated that A-G definitely was capable of taking on Base Gard in a serious fight) and Leon battled Ash in a 100% serious fight (since he's straight up accepted a challenge from Ash), I'd say that Gigachu deserves more credit. Further considering the fact that Leon is a World Champion who managed to straight up defeat a champion in Lance with less than extreme difficulty (while Charizard vs Gyarados was a close battle it still definitely wasn't down to the wire), he is above Champion level in general, while elevates Gigachu's feat even more. I'd say Gigachu probably is around MCX level or maybe even high.

We have seen that Base attacks don't work on Gigachu, but that doesn't mean Mega, Z and A-G attacks don't work. We need more feats from Gigachu at least to see how powerful it is. A-G is super speedy which would evade attacks from Gigamons(seeing how Giga can also evade them).
Agreed with the statement that he needs more consistent feats to establish its strength and power level, though if we had to scale from the Leon battle, then IMO Gigachu deserves to be put on a level which is definite cut above A-G. Though yeah, unlike many other Base Pokemon, attacks from high-level ME Pokemon or A-G would probably affect Gigachu.

Question for you which I already asked before: SM Peakachu with 10MV attack( vs Tapu Koko) would it beat Gigachu?

Gigachu, even though SM Peakachu with 10 MVT would put up a really close fight I'd assume. Pikachu's win vs Tapu Koko shouldn't be underestimated because it had to overcome Guardian Of Alola Z-move to win there; I mean that all the 3 other Tapu's gave their energy to Tapu Koko and Guardian Of Alola was used via that combined power/energy, so Pikachu (with 10 MVT) basically had to overcome the power of 4 Tapus combined to defeat Tapu Koko in that battle. It's one thing to just defeat a Tapu 1 on 1, and another thing to defeat a Tapu via overcoming its Z-move.which was used by the combined power of 4 Tapus. So yeah, Pikachu's feat vs Tapu Koko can probably be termed as the 2nd best feat after the Gigachu feat vs Leon IMO.

Also where do you see Ash's SM team in regard of power? I made several statements that Incineroar surpassed Snorlax but not that much. Naganadal is kinda featless(it beat Lucario who get defeated by Guzzlord easily and lost to TK), but question is Melmetal, Rowlet and Lycanroc(Rowlet is weakest).

Hmm, to be fairly honest, most of the Kukui battle was pretty much messed up power-scaling wise. The writers wanted to structure the battle in a way that most of Ash's Pokemon got a win there and for the sake of doing so ended up creating several logical holes characterized by power inconsistencies in that battle which are very hard to miss (which by an extension, goes to show that the whole battle wasn't thought out that well). We saw Pikachu struggling against Kukui's Empoleon enough to be recalled back and then eventually going toe to toe with Tapu Koko (which does indeed look like a glaring inconsistent portrayal of Pikachu in that battle), we saw Lycanroc being capable enough to give trouble to Kukui's Incineroar and then lose fairly decisively to Braviary afterwards (even though Braviary was shown to be relatively fodder compared to Incineroar back in the Neczroma arc, when Braviary alongside Faba's Pokemon got curbstomped in an instant by Gozu's Mega Aggron and Incineroar with Z-move destroyed Mega Aggron with little to no effort afterwards), all these inconsistent portrayals of power levels of the Pokemon involved in the battle several times makes it quite a bit tricky to scale and gauge the power levels of Ash's Pokemon from that battle TBH.

But well, if I had to make a good enough estimate I'd say that Incineroar, as of the Kukui battle and as Torracat with Z-move (since we never got to see it battle as Incineroar we can't properly gauge what its power level was as Incineroar) is a bit above Snorlax level but not by much. As Incineroar, taking the evolutionary boost into account, via estimate it could potentially/plausibly be on Sceptile/Infernape level though we can't say anything about that unless we see it battle as Incineroar.

Judging Melmetal & Lycanroc's power level as very tricky because of the power inconsistencies in the Kukui battle which I already explained above, but I had to make an estimate Lycanroc is still within the Tier 2 range of Ash's Pokemon (below the likes of Her across, Krookodile, Gliscor but around Swellow level or maybe even below) because while it did deliver the remarkable historical moment of Ash winning a League via getting the final & decisive victory against Gladion, we gotta be realistic, that feat has more landmark significance rather than being a strong feat in terms of power. Even then, from the battle it was kinda evident that Midnight was the superior Pokemon in terms of battle viability overall, but Ash's superior, situational & clever usage of Counter won Dusk the battle. The loss against Braviary still hurts it pretty bad I'm afraid, hard to put it higher after that loss.

Melmetal's best feat still is putting up a solid fight against Gladion's Silvally. Empoleon was a good win and all (though the power inconsistencies in that battle especially as pretty obvious in the Empoleon part, makes the feat very hard to take seriously & gauge anything from it) but it was still defeated quite easily by Incineroar without much fuss. I won't be too harsh on Melmetal for that loss though since it had severe disadvantage there, it's always hard for a Steel type Pokemon of that size and low speed to fight an OP Fire type Pokemon who knows Blast Burn. I'd put it around the level of Heracross, Gliscor & Krookodile.

For Naganadel, I'd say that it's probably a bit below Melmetal or around that level. It probably does deserve some credit because it did manage to hold out against Tapu Koko for a while even after being weakened a lot by fighting Lucario beforehand (further considering the fact that it had to face a severe disadvantage in fighting a Steel type), so yeah, even though it seems kinda DEM-y for a Pokemon who got released as Poipole with zero battle experience to become that strong upon return, it deserves to be put around the same level as Melmetal or maybe a bit below.

For Rowlet, while it may look weak and be a comic relief most of the times or whatever, it still performed consistently in battles and did its bit. Beat a fully evolved Pokemon of its own evolutionary line which is never easy (yeah I'm well aware of whatever BS was involved in that battle, but Rowlet still did win legitimately, because it wasn't it's fault that Nanu mistook its sleeping as fainting), beat a moderately damaged Braviary who defeated Lycanroc.....so yeah, I think that while it's the weakest amongst Ash's Alolan team, it still does hold a respectable place amongst Ash's flyers, definitely above the overrated Staraptor.

That basically sums up my overall views.
 
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Hmm, considering that Diantha wasn't battling 100% all-out vs A-G (though A-G did overpower Mega Gardevoir's multi-fused Shadow Ball and was able to inflict serious damage, which indicated that A-G definitely was capable of taking on Base Gard in a serious fight) and Leon battled Ash in a 100% serious fight (since he's straight up accepted a challenge from Ash), I'd say that Gigachu deserves more credit. Further considering the fact that Leon is a World Champion who managed to straight up defeat a champion in Lance with less than extreme difficultly (while Charizard vs Gyarados was a close battle it still definitely wasn't down to the wire), he is above Champion level in general, while elevates Gigachu's feat even more. I'd say Gigachu probably is around MCX level or maybe even high.


Agreed with the statement that he needs more consistent feats to establish its strength and power level, though if we had to scale from the Leon battle, then IMO Gigachu deserves to be put on a level which is definite cut above A-G. Though yeah, unlike many other Base Pokemon, attacks from high-level ME Pokemon or A-G would probably affect Gigachu.



Gigachu, even though SM Peakachu with 10 MVT would put up a reay close fight I'd assume. Pikachu's win vs Tapu Koko shouldn't be underestimated because it had to overcome Guardian Of Alola Z-move to win there; I mean that all the 3 other Tapu's gave their energy to Tapu Koko and Guardian Of Alola was used via that combined power/energy, so Pikachu (with 10 MVT) basically had to overcome the power of 4 Tapus combined to defeat Tapu Koko in that battle. It's one thing to just defeat a Tapu 1 on 1, and another thing to defeat a Tapu via overcoming its Z-moves which was used by the combined power of 4 Tapus. So yeah, Pikachu's feat vs Tapu Koko can probably be termed as the 2nd best feat after the Gigachu feat vs Leon IMO.



Hmm, to be fairly honest, most of the Kukui battle was pretty much messed up power-scaling wise. The writers wanted to structure the battle in a way that most of Ash's Pokemon got a win there and for the sake of doing so ended up creating several logical holes characterized by power inconsistencies in that battle which are very hard to miss (which by an extension, goes to show that the whole battle wasn't thought out that well). We saw Pikachu struggling against Kukui's Empoleon enough to be recalled back and then eventually going toe to toe with Tapu Koko (which does indeed look like a glaring inconsistent portrayal of Pikachu in that battle), we saw Lycanroc being capable enough to give trouble to Kukui's Incineroar and then lose fairly decisively to Braviary afterwards (even though Braviary was shown to be relatively fodder compared to Incineroar back in the Neczroma arc, when Braviary alongside Faba's Pokemon got curbstomped in an instant by Gozu's Mega Aggron and Incineroar with Z-move destroyed Mega Aggron with little to no effort afterwards), all these inconsistent portrayals of power levels of the Pokemon involved in the battle several times makes it quite a bit tricky to scale and gauge the power levels of Ash's Pokemon from that battle TBH.

But well, if I had to make a good enough estimate I'd say that Incineroar, as of the Kukui battle and as Torracat with Z-move (since we never got to see it battle as Incineroar we can't properly gauge what its power level was as Incineroar) is a bit above Snorlax level but not by much. As Incineroar, taking the evolutionary boost into account, via estimate it could potentially/plausibly be on Sceptile/Infernape level though we can't say anything about that unless we see it battle as Incineroar.

Judging Melmetal & Lycanroc's power level as very tricky because of the power inconsistencies in the Kukui battle which I already explained above, but I had to make an estimate Lycanroc is still within the Tier 2 range of Ash's Pokemon (below the likes of Her across, Krookodile, Gliscor but around Swellow level or maybe even below) because while it did deliver the remarkable historical moment of Ash winning a League via getting the final & decisive victory against Gladion, we gotta be realistic, that feat has more landmark significance rather than being a strong feat in terms of power. Even then, from the battle it was kinda evident that Midnight was the superior Pokemon in terms of battle viability overall, but Ash's superior, situational & clever usage of Counter won Dusk the battle. The loss against Braviary still hurts it pretty bad I'm afraid, hard to put it higher after that loss.

Melmetal's best feat still is putting up a solid fight against Gladion's Silvally. Empoleon was a good win and all (though the power inconsistencies in that battle especially as pretty obvious in the Empoleon part, makes the feat very hard to take seriously & gauge anything from it) but it was still defeated quite easily by Incineroar without much fuss. I won't be too harsh on Melmetal for that loss though since it had severe disadvantage there, it's always hard for a Steel type Pokemon of that size and low speed to fight an OP Fire type Pokemon who knows Blast Burn. I'd put it around the level of Heracross, Gliscor & Krookodile.

For Naganadel, I'd say that it's probably a bit below Melmetal or around that level. It probably does deserve some credit because it did manage to hold out against Tapu Koko for a while even after being weakened a lot by fighting Lucario beforehand (further considering the fact that it had to face a severe disadvantage in fighting a Steel type), so yeah, even though it seems kinda DEM-y for a Pokemon who got released as Poipole with zero battle experience to become that strong upon return, it deserves to be put around the same level as Melmetal or maybe a bit below.

For Rowlet, while it may look weak a be a comic relief most of the times or whatever, it still performed consistently in battles and did its bit. Beat a fully evolved Pokemon of its own evolutionary line which is never easy (yeah I'm well aware of whatever BS was involved in that battle, but Rowlet still did win legitimately, because it wasn't it's fault that Nanu mistook its sleeping as fainting), beat a moderately damaged Braviary who defeated Lycanroc.....so yeah, I think that while it's the weakest amongst Ash's Alolan team, it still does hold a respectable place amongst Ash's flyers, definitely above the overrated Staraptor.

That basically sums up my overall views.

Gigachu landed two attacks on Gigazard, one of which was in the done in the process of Diamaxing against normal Charizard and the other didn't seem to do much damage at all, in a battle where he was getting stomped every which way. I'm not sure you can extrapolate that to Gigachu being on the level of MCX.

Unlike the Diantha battle with AG, Pikachu vs Charizard wasn't a close fight and neither was Gigachu vs Gigazard so I'd say Gigachu needs more feats before you put him on level of MCX. Clearly Leon is stronger than Diantha and he was by all accounts battling seriously(said so by himself), but Pikachu/Gigachu never posed a threat.
 
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345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Gigachu landed two attack on Gigazard, one of which was in the done in the process of Diamaxing against normal Charizard and the other didn't seem to do much damage at all, in a battle where he was getting stomped every which way. I'm not sure you can extrapolate that to Gigachu being on the level of MCX.

Unlike the Diantha battle with AG, Pikachu vs Charizard wasn't a close fight and neither was Gigachu vs Gigazard so I'd say Gigachu needs more feats before you put him on level of MCX. Clearly Leon is stronger than Diantha and he was by all accounts battling seriously(said so by himself), but Pikachu/Gigachu never posed a threat.

Well I watched the fight yet again, and....have to say that though the fight wasn't close overall, Gigachu did clearly showed to be a cut above Leon's base Zard in the battle at the very least. Zard was pretty soundly overpowered by Gigachu's Electric move (don't quite recall what that's called) after which Leon instantly decided to go Giga. As Gigazard, it defeated Gigachu fairly easily, but definitely seemed that Leon couldn't have taken down Gigachu without having Zard go Giga. Leon was shown to above Champion Level (pretty obviously since he became the World Champion by straight up defeating a Champion in Lance with less than extreme difficulty), so it's fair to assume that his Charizard in base form is above Base Champion ace level. Gigachu managing to overpower base Zard and forcing it to go Giga should suggest that it's likely a cut above the Base Champion ace level margin.

Though yeah, I agree that we need more consistent feats from Gigachu to gauge its strength level probably. Still gotta keep it mind that it's natural for Pikachu to be inconsistent from battle to battle cuz as we all know, that's something we have seen from Pika very often throughout the course of the anime time & again, so can't expect him to be on the level he was in the Leon battle everytime when he goes Giga. Though we can likely expect him to go Peak mode again towards the end of the series again, which he most of the time does.
 
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CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Hmm, considering that Diantha wasn't battling 100% all-out vs A-G (though A-G did overpower Mega Gardevoir's multi-fused Shadow Ball and was able to inflict serious damage, which indicated that A-G definitely was capable of taking on Base Gard in a serious fight) and Leon battled Ash in a 100% serious fight (since he's straight up accepted a challenge from Ash), I'd say that Gigachu deserves more credit. Further considering the fact that Leon is a World Champion who managed to straight up defeat a champion in Lance with less than extreme difficultly (while Charizard vs Gyarados was a close battle it still definitely wasn't down to the wire), he is above Champion level in general, while elevates Gigachu's feat even more. I'd say Gigachu probably is around MCX level or maybe even high.

Wasn't Lance Kanto E4 member? Not a Champion? Anyway, thing is Lance used Dynamax Pokemon in a battle with Leon. We all know that Giga > Dyna, so maybe if Lance( if he is Champion since even writers can't make up if he's E4 or Champion) if we used Giga Pokemon(ace) he would've tied with Leon, I mean after all don't forget that Diantha and Steven were equal in XY. As of Leon being strongest; it can happen easily but probably some Champions didn't participate like Diantha, Cynthia, Alder etc. I would still say that their G-max Pokemon would be equal to Leon's Gigazard(if they have Giga max Pokemon) until proven otherwise.( D-max Pokemon like Gyarados would be weaker).


Agreed with the statement that he needs more consistent feats to establish its strength and power level, though if we had to scale from the Leon battle, then IMO Gigachu deserves to be put on a level which is definite cut above A-G. Though yeah, unlike many other Base Pokemon, attacks from high-level ME Pokemon or A-G would probably affect Gigachu.
I wouldn't be sure as of now seeing how attacks from ME, Z moves and A-G would affect Gigachu. Both Gigachu and A-G are stronger than Base Champion level, but problem is which is stronger. Sure Gigachu will be stronger in future but as of now(EP 13) it's pending. Don't forget several things though: Z moves would be considered stronger than Max moves because Z moves are used once and they make Pokemon little bit tired after that while Max moves look like stronger ME moves/attacks. We have seen Guzma's Golisopod able to take/cut Z moves like GH from Pikachu. A-G has water Shuriken and Orange one. Nothing's stopping A-G to easily cut Max moves like he did BB from MCX. Or to overpower that Steel Max move. Like I said A-G is superspeedy while Gigachu is not. High chance is A-G beating him due speed.



, even though SM Peakachu with 10 MVT would put up a really close fight I'd assume. Pikachu's win vs Tapu Koko shouldn't be underestimated because it had to overcome Guardian Of Alola Z-move to win there; I mean that all the 3 other Tapu's gave their energy to Tapu Koko and Guardian Of Alola was used via that combined power/energy, so Pikachu (with 10 MVT) basically had to overcome the power of 4 Tapus combined to defeat Tapu Koko in that battle. It's one thing to just defeat a Tapu 1 on 1, and another thing to defeat a Tapu via overcoming its Z-move.which was used by the combined power of 4 Tapus. So yeah, Pikachu's feat vs Tapu Koko can probably be termed as the 2nd best feat after the Gigachu feat vs Leon IMO.
Yeah, like I said Z moves since they're used once( unlike Max moves and G moves) are probably the most powerful moves( Z power moves especially) which would take down Gigachu 100%. But I think in future Gigachu would be able to tank that Z move. We will see.



Hmm, to be fairly honest, most of the Kukui battle was pretty much messed up power-scaling wise. The writers wanted to structure the battle in a way that most of Ash's Pokemon got a win there and for the sake of doing so ended up creating several logical holes characterized by power inconsistencies in that battle which are very hard to miss (which by an extension, goes to show that the whole battle wasn't thought out that well). We saw Pikachu struggling against Kukui's Empoleon enough to be recalled back and then eventually going toe to toe with Tapu Koko (which does indeed look like a glaring inconsistent portrayal of Pikachu in that battle), we saw Lycanroc being capable enough to give trouble to Kukui's Incineroar and then lose fairly decisively to Braviary afterwards (even though Braviary was shown to be relatively fodder compared to Incineroar back in the Neczroma arc, when Braviary alongside Faba's Pokemon got curbstomped in an instant by Gozu's Mega Aggron and Incineroar with Z-move destroyed Mega Aggron with little to no effort afterwards), all these inconsistent portrayals of power levels of the Pokemon involved in the battle several times makes it quite a bit tricky to scale and gauge the power levels of Ash's Pokemon from that battle TBH.
Yeah, SM Peakachu is really inconsistent and it definitely in Base is not stronger than XY Peakachu. Maybe even SM Base Peakachu is not even as strong as DP Peakachu.. I believe as of SM, scale of Peakachu is:
SM Peakachu(10MV) > XY Peakachu > DP Peakachu > SM Peakachu > BF Peakachu > BW Peakachu > OS Peakachu. SM Base Peakachu didn't show anything to be put above DP Peakachu.It did good against TK, cool. DP Peakachu beat Latios which is trained(unlike TK). As of other; I will try and justify Pikachu vs Empoleon fight and Gozu. a) Pikachu wasn't really defeated but he was caught in whirlpool which made him dizzy and Ash returned him ( so later we would have TK fight so Pikachu doesn't get too tired battling with Empoleon). I mean getting dizzy is universal thing even if you take like Diantha's Mega Gardevoir, if you spin it if it will get dizzy. I feel that bit was done for comedic purposes aka outlier. As of Gozu, thing is Incineroar beat him with Z move which is that super move, that's problem with SM. Pokemon beating others with Z move and we don't get to see Base power. But yeah Incineroar is definitely stronger than Braviary by much.

But well, if I had to make a good enough estimate I'd say that Incineroar, as of the Kukui battle and as Torracat with Z-move (since we never got to see it battle as Incineroar we can't properly gauge what its power level was as Incineroar) is a bit above Snorlax level but not by much. As Incineroar, taking the evolutionary boost into account, via estimate it could potentially/plausibly be on Sceptile/Infernape level though we can't say anything about that unless we see it battle as Incineroar.
I would say which is maybe kinda shown within the battle that that boost actually happened inside Torracat where he battled against Incineroar which made him tie( once he evolved). Liek Torracat was holding that boost that evolution and once it "beat" Incineroar it evolved and tied aka fainted.I would say that Ash's Incineroar >(little bit) > Torracat(with boost( I mean his bell was on fire) = Kukui's Incineroar. As of Incineroar being on Sceptile/Infernape level.. well all Ash's Pokemon could be on that level like Sceptile who got defeated by Regirock pretty easily despite controlled by "better" trainer :D , and in DP; he beat Darkrai. But as of now aka SM feats. Incineroar is at best like 6th strongest Ash's Pokemon. To be on I/S level Pokemon need to do some good feats.

Judging Melmetal & Lycanroc's power level as very tricky because of the power inconsistencies in the Kukui battle which I already explained above, but I had to make an estimate Lycanroc is still within the Tier 2 range of Ash's Pokemon (below the likes of Her across, Krookodile, Gliscor but around Swellow level or maybe even below) because while it did deliver the remarkable historical moment of Ash winning a League via getting the final & decisive victory against Gladion, we gotta be realistic, that feat has more landmark significance rather than being a strong feat in terms of power. Even then, from the battle it was kinda evident that Midnight was the superior Pokemon in terms of battle viability overall, but Ash's superior, situational & clever usage of Counter won Dusk the battle. The loss against Braviary still hurts it pretty bad I'm afraid, hard to put it higher after that loss.
DL for me is overrated Pokemon. Some people were saying that DL could beat Darkrai and Latios which I just laughed. DL doesn't even enter Top 10 Ash's Pokemon. Talonflame, Torkoal, Gliscor and even Melmetal are stronger than DL. Agreed. Many people think "DL made Ash win the league that means it's strongest Pokemon", I am like what? It's just victory of a league that does not make him strongest. It's strong, but we have all seen better feats. Yeah, Braviary put it on rest and it battled Kiawe's Charizard but it had some problems there and Charizard had some difficulty with Vikavolt. Some people think it's strongest because it survived 100ft drop and because of battle with Nanu. What they don't understand:
a) if gym level Pokemon like Skyla's Unfezant does Sky Drop from per say 100 feet and example you take E4 level Pidgeot and does 50ft drop, Pidgeot would factually do more damage despite lesser feet because it is E4 level Pokemon and Unfezant from Skyla is gym level. That's how it goes.
b) Nanu feat is good but TB gave Lycanroc Sitrus Berry which recovered his strength. Not to mention that Kahunas are not that strong compared to gym leaders. Brock's Sudowoodo was able to go toe to toe with Olivia's ace. So, I would say highest feat from DL is from Nanu fight.

Melmetal's best feat still is putting up a solid fight against Gladion's Silvally. Empoleon was a good win and all (though the power inconsistencies in that battle especially as pretty obvious in the Empoleon part, makes the feat very hard to take seriously & gauge anything from it) but it was still defeated quite easily by Incineroar without much fuss. I won't be too harsh on Melmetal for that loss though since it had severe disadvantage there, it's always hard for a Steel type Pokemon of that size and low speed to fight an OP Fire type Pokemon who knows Blast Burn. I'd put it around the level of Heracross, Gliscor & Krookodile.
Yeah, that's the highest feat and I agree also, Melmetal should be stronger than DL. Melmetal should be on border of Top 10.

For Naganadel, I'd say that it's probably a bit below Melmetal or around that level. It probably does deserve some credit because it did manage to hold out against Tapu Koko for a while even after being weakened a lot by fighting Lucario beforehand (further considering the fact that it had to face a severe disadvantage in fighting a Steel type), so yeah, even though it seems kinda DEM-y for a Pokemon who got released as Poipole with zero battle experience to become that strong upon return, it deserves to be put around the same level as Melmetal or maybe a bit below.
I would put Naganadel weaker than DL. I agree that Naganadel's little BS, but still I would say it would not beat DL.

For Rowlet, while it may look weak and be a comic relief most of the times or whatever, it still performed consistently in battles and did its bit. Beat a fully evolved Pokemon of its own evolutionary line which is never easy (yeah I'm well aware of whatever BS was involved in that battle, but Rowlet still did win legitimately, because it wasn't it's fault that Nanu mistook its sleeping as fainting), beat a moderately damaged Braviary who defeated Lycanroc.....so yeah, I think that while it's the weakest amongst Ash's Alolan team, it still does hold a respectable place amongst Ash's flyers, definitely above the overrated Staraptor.
That basically sums up my overall views.
Yeah, Rowlet is stronger than Staraptor and Unfezant but weaker than other bird mons. Incineroar is top 6th. Melmetal , DL and Naganadel are between Top 10-19( Melmetal early Top 10, DL like in middle TOp 15/16 and Naganadel in late like Top 18) and Rowlet is like Top 20th.
 
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Ragnarok4

No... STILL NOT ITS OVER !!!
SM Ash vs XY Ash
SM Ash vs DP Ash
SM Ash vs BF Ash
SM Ash vs Paul



SM ASH + Z-Move> XY ASH / DP ASH / BF ASH / PAUL

WHITOUT Z-MOVE <XY ASH
WHITOUT Z-MOVE = DP ASH
WHITOUT Z-MOVE <= BF ASH
WHITOUT Z-MOVE> PAUL
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
Ash's Gengar vs Ash's Dragonite?

We dont know anything about dragonite's strength so far it has to have a proper battle first to be judged on the other hand has a win in official match so as of now, gengar takes it.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
BladexFade said:
How would Alain fare against Leon?
(I just finished episode 12 ( I know I'm behind), they are really hyping Leon as "The Strongest". )

If they fought in a one-on-one battle with their ace Pokemon only, I think Dande would win, although Alain would probably give him a run for his money for part of the battle. We haven't seen Dande's full team yet, so I'm not sure how their battle would end if they used all their Pokemon.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Poke'fan68 said:
Paul's Torterra vs Ash's Infernape

That's a tough one. Since Dodaitose was Shinji's Starter, I'm tempted to say that it would win based on its experience, but I don't want to underestimate Satoshi's Goukazaru's Blaze. I'll go with Goukazaru just because he seemed like a quick battler and heavy hitter.
 

JustAStatistic

Super Casual Trainer
How would Alain fare against Leon?
(I just finished episode 12 ( I know I'm behind), they are really hyping Leon as "The Strongest". )

Considering that Leon's Gigazard at the very worst is on par with Steven's M-Metagross, who shrugged off MCX's Blast burn...

Alain is getting destroyed.
 

Poke'fan68

Well-Known Member
PM2019 Peakachu vs Ash's Greninja base form
Peakachu doesn't have gmax and Greninja doesn't have battle bond so who wins
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
XY Pikachu (who should be weaker than PM2019 Pikachu) defeated Sawyer's Clawitzer and Aegislash, Alain's Tyranitar and Metagross
Greninja base form...Alain's Bisharp, yaaay....

Peakachu wins
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
XY Pikachu (who should be weaker than PM2019 Pikachu) defeated Sawyer's Clawitzer and Aegislash, Alain's Tyranitar and Metagross
Greninja base form...Alain's Bisharp, yaaay....

Peakachu wins
If we talk about Base Pikachu in EP13 being stronger than XY Peakachu( from Kalos league) that's a no. Because Peakachu is always shown weaker in beginning. Based on your logic: XY Peakachu would've lost to PM Pikachu who had difficulties to Visquez's Raichu who is gym level lol. If we talk about PM Peakachu in PWC( like near the end of Gen 8 than yes he would be > XY Peakachu. Base Greninja( Kalos league) > PM Peakachu as of now( because Pikachu always resets in the beginning of new series, sometimes more: BW but sometimes kinda: PM, AG.
 

Poke'fan68

Well-Known Member
DL for me is overrated Pokemon. Some people were saying that DL could beat Darkrai and Latios which I just laughed.

Agreed how can people even think Lycanroc is that strong. If this was true Kukui's Braviary would be able to take down both Sceptile and DP Peakachu with relative ease. Which it can't Braviary wouldn't even be able to beat either one of them.
 
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