Pokémon Bank & Poké Transporter Thread [READ FIRST POST]

[Bramblefire]

It's technically a game, though, and even if you then argue that it isn't, shooting at at orb and catching it, isn't a game.



No what I'm asking for is an app that can communicate with the DS games, and also be programmed with the feature to communicate with other 3DS apps/games.



But that ignores my point and everything else Pokemon has done in the past.

Transferring Pokemon from an older to a new generation has been done before so I don't buy this because it was built in the past.

I don't see how the 3DS can be so different that as BolttheCat suggested they can't find a way to have some app that can communicate with both the DS and 3DS.

Do people not get that sending your Pokemon from Ruby and Sapphire to Diamond and Pearl is forwards compatibility?

I just am not seeing why it isn't as simple as copying a Pokemon's data, and erasing that data, while uploading that data elsewhere.

Because that's essentially what the Pokemon bank is doing, and yet somehow the games are set up so they can upload data to the internet and download to different, but there can't be app program that essentially does the same thing.

And before you argue what I think you are going to argue, Dream Radar works only when your DS game is not active, since the 3DS is incapable of playing two games at the same time.

In order for the transfer to work as it did before, the DS cart and the 3DS cart must talk directly with each other. The problem comes in with the DS cart/system. The cart does not know what to do to send data to 3DS software, it is simply not programed to do so.

The app thing would (and will work). The reason Gamefreak chose to have Gen V to VI work this way is a more long term solution. Yes, they could have made the app send it to XY directly, but Pokemon Bank will act like the transfer service from this point forward. So it would be much simpler to send it to the service (which checks for hacks at the same time).

 

[dman_dustin]

The app thing would (and will work). The reason Gamefreak chose to have Gen V to VI work this way is a more long term solution. Yes, they could have made the app send it to XY directly, but Pokemon Bank will act like the transfer service from this point forward. So it would be much simpler to send it to the service (which checks for hacks at the same time).

And there it is, my entire point.

An app that can be used as a middle man.

I don't know why anyone would think I was talking about Black 2 White 2 directly communicating with X and Y.

I don't recall ever remotely even suggesting that.

 

[Serebii]

Having it be online also means they can continually update the hack checks in case people find loopholes etc.

 

[King Shuckle]

I don't even know why we are wasting our time. If Matsuda isn't good enough for dman_dustin, why would any of our reasonable responses be effective?

 

[dman_dustin]

I don't even know why we are wasting our time. If Matsuda isn't good enough for dman_dustin, why would any of our reasonable responses be effective?

You know I'm getting pissed off here.

If people are suggesting an app can work why is anyone arguing with me.

 

[randomspot555]

And they still will under the system I suggested.

For some reason they went with this instead. Looking over what's being posted, an app IE additional software development was necessary even without the Bank storage so they'd charge for it anyway. Why should Bank users subsidize free transfers? I mean I guess they could charge $5 for each app but I'm guessing GF/Nintendo thinks users of one are likely to use the other. If you wanna set $5 on fire and then use $5 to buy both apps to make yourself feel better or whatever, that's cool I guess.

For $5 you get both. It really isn't that big of a deal.

If I'm not using the actual storage features, I shouldn't have to pay extra money for a feature that has been free in the past. You're getting less value out of your game if they lock standard features behind a paywall.

It might've been a standard but I wouldn't say it is an essential feature. Pokemon has many new players that never played a previous gen game and even some veteran players don't bother transporting all of the Pokemon they caught over, rather just porting the few they use.

As for something you don't use, I don't like contests and never played them but it'd be absurd for me to feel like I'm entitled to a $5 reduction in a Pokemon game for something I don't use. It's something I choose not to do and ignore. If you don't want the storage, do you feel transferring is worth the price of 42 cents a month? If not, you have one whole month of a free trial.

So because I happen to not need that feature at a certain time it's not necessary? Yeah, sure. It's not beneficial to someone like me who doesn't need it upon release but will need it 1 or 2 years down the road.

It should not take you 1-2 years to get to the point in a Pokemon game where you're ready to transfer stuff over. A gmae post E4 ususally takes about 20-40 hours to get to. Transfer options typically open up after that. You've got plenty of time if the only thing you wanna do is transfer rather than storage.

Having it be online also means they can continually update the hack checks in case people find loopholes etc.

Tournaments are presumably being updated for legality checks yet one of the last tournaments of this generation had a hacker winning and a lot of others taking top positions. People thinking this is going to be some hack checking web that'll actually work and also not catch a ton of actually legit Pokemon are probably way off. I bet it'll work just as it does now: Catch the most obvious ones, not catch a lot of the less obvious ones, and ensnare some innocent ones as well.

 

[Seil]

Transferring Pokemon from an older to a new generation has been done before so I don't buy this because it was built in the past.

I don't see how the 3DS can be so different that as BolttheCat suggested they can't find a way to have some app that can communicate with both the DS and 3DS.

Do people not get that sending your Pokemon from Ruby and Sapphire to Diamond and Pearl is forwards compatibility?

I just am not seeing why it isn't as simple as copying a Pokemon's data, and erasing that data, while uploading that data elsewhere.

Because that's essentially what the Pokemon bank is doing, and yet somehow the games are set up so they can upload data to the internet and download to different, but there can't be app program that essentially does the same thing.

In the past, there's been functionality that allowed it to work. The DS had system level features to facilitate communication between DS games and cartridges in the GBA slot. This made Gen III to IV transfers possible. Gens IV and V are on the DS, so communication wasn't an issue. The Download Play feature allowed a medium since the games couldn't directly communicate, though.

However, the 3DS and DS cannot directly communicate. So, an application is the solution. That's what you're asking for and it's what's happening. The thing is, only Game Freak knows exactly what has to go into it.

If I were to speculate(I don't know the limitations of communications on the 3DS, so all I can do is speculate from my general knowledge and what's being done) I would say what you're looking for isn't possible. Dream Radar works because B/W2 were developed with it in mind. There's a built in feature in the games that facilitates that communication. We also don't know the actual structure of Dream Radar. We do, however, know that the data it pushes isn't sent directly to the box/bag, though. So there's likely some barrier(it could just be an extra step to allow the game to generate the Pokemon data, though). Also, Dream Radar only applies to the sequels which were developed with it in mind while Transporter works with all Gen V games.

Now, the Bank and Transporter appear to be two separate apps that connect to the same service. So, why would they split it up instead of just having an option in the Bank app to activate a transfer? Likely because it's not an option. The Transporter application is probably not a proper 3DS application or behaves in an unusual fashion to allow it to properly connect to the Gen V games. It reads the save data and uploads Pokemon to the cloud.

Meanwhile the Bank application, a proper 3DS app, lets you manipulate what's already in the cloud and communicate with Gen VI games. The cloud service is likely a necessary middle man due to the Transporter and Bank applications also not being able to communicate.

 

[Pamizard]

Having it be online also means they can continually update the hack checks in case people find loopholes etc.

I agree

Even though sources said somewhere the 3DS is "unhackable" There are hackers out there that may find a loophole in the pokemon Bank and can find a way to bring the illegal Pokemon into the system or something.

 

[thetamale]

I agree

Even though sources said somewhere the 3DS is "unhackable" There are hackers out there that may find a loophole in the pokemon Bank and can find a way to bring the illegal Pokemon into the system or something.

I read somewhere systems can get bricked as an anti-hacking countermeasure.

 

[dman_dustin]

In the past, there's been functionality that allowed it to work. The DS had system level features to facilitate communication between DS games and cartridges in the GBA slot. This made Gen III to IV transfers possible. Gens IV and V are on the DS, so communication wasn't an issue. The Download Play feature allowed a medium since the games couldn't directly communicate, though.

However, the 3DS and DS cannot directly communicate. So, an application is the solution. That's what you're asking for and it's what's happening. The thing is, only Game Freak knows exactly what has to go into it.

If I were to speculate(I don't know the limitations of communications on the 3DS, so all I can do is speculate from my general knowledge and what's being done) I would say what you're looking for isn't possible. Dream Radar works because B/W2 were developed with it in mind. There's a built in feature in the games that facilitates that communication. We also don't know the actual structure of Dream Radar. We do, however, know that the data it pushes isn't sent directly to the box/bag, though. So there's likely some barrier(it could just be an extra step to allow the game to generate the Pokemon data, though). Also, Dream Radar only applies to the sequels which were developed with it in mind while Transporter works with all Gen V games.

Now, the Bank and Transporter appear to be two separate apps that connect to the same service. So, why would they split it up instead of just having an option in the Bank app to activate a transfer? Likely because it's not an option. The Transporter application is probably not a proper 3DS application or behaves in an unusual fashion to allow it to properly connect to the Gen V games. It reads the save data and uploads Pokemon to the cloud.

Meanwhile the Bank application, a proper 3DS app, lets you manipulate what's already in the cloud and communicate with Gen VI games. The cloud service is likely a necessary middle man due to the Transporter and Bank applications also not being able to communicate.

I'm getting way too many contradicting posts.

Apparently games =/= apps okay fine.

But apps can work, they just apparently chose not to do it like that and went straight for the maintenance paid services of cloud.

Fine, but I seriously think this argument needs to stop, because I can't get any straight answer here. Too many people are contradicting each other. Like I said, it's pissing me off.

Because I never suggested Black 2 White 2 directly communicating with X and Y at all. I was always referring to an app (as the middle man).

 

[King Shuckle]

You know I'm getting pissed off here.

If people are suggesting an app can work why is anyone arguing with me.

We were debating, up until the point where you basically slapped down Matsuda. We presented you with every logical point and conclusion, and even Serebii himself told you how it was and you continued to press the issue. Pokemon Bank is an online app and PokeTransporter is a component of that. Because of both apps, transfer is possible. And even if it was in-game, this method is far superior. Learn to deal, or don't. The choice is yours.

 

[Ditto24]

You know I'm getting pissed off here.

If people are suggesting an app can work why is anyone arguing with me.

Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done. Cloud is the easier option for the company in the long run, hence this is why they're doing it.

 

[dman_dustin]

Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done. Cloud is the easier option for the company in the long run, hence this is why they're doing it.

Which is a far better argument than twisting my words and making me look like an idiot while confusing me in the process.

 

[Hydrohs]

I disagree. The amount of the Pokémon data that Pokémon Bank can store is incredibly minimal, more so than the Dream World artworks. You are probably right about hardware costs and management costs though.

I'm not sure if you were trying to link a specific tweet or not, but either way, you're right about the art assets for the Dream World taking up more space than Pokemon Bank, except that Pokemon Bank needs to store data for X amount of users. The Dream World is mostly static, there doesn't need to be any scalability. Pokemon Bank can quickly and easily surpass storage requirements for the Dream World.

Do other cloud services have clear cut dexcriptions of the periods they delete the data for?

They do, at least all the services I've ever come across.

I think the exact numbers are something like 1558 people. Junior: 68, Senior: 335, Master: 1155, for anyone who's interested. Though it didn't get all of the hacks, apparently. Someone posted this one earlier on this same thread, I believe, and it's humorous considering he placed 1st. So while hack checking is now becoming more serious, it's still not enough to catch everything.

And yet, as Gustavo 14 pointed out, it wasn't good enough to detect a user who ultimately took 1st place. And their 5th gen hack-check for the GTS was horrible. I'm not saying Nintendo can't change, but their track record leaves a lot to be desired so I'm cynical of their hack-checking efforts.

The problem is that they're not scrutinizing the data to its last byte (they created the RNG algorithm...they should have access to all the possible permutations and impossible permutations. They should know the legal and illegal TID/SID combinations, and the legal and illegal IV spreads in relation to the seed and date).

GameFreak will be able to update the hack-checking over time, as they become aware of new methods.

Wait so what you're basically saying is that (Random numbers):

4 can go into 3

But 3 can't go into 4?

What the hell kind of programming is that?

Normal programming. You can't program knowing what will be created in the future, programmers are not gods. You can make something backwards compatible, but you can't force something to be forwards compatible.

 

[BurningWhiteKyurem]

No what I'm asking for is an app that can communicate with the DS games, and also be programmed with the feature to communicate with other 3DS apps/games.

You do realize that the Poketransporter does just that in the case of moving Pokemon BW/BW2 from the DS to the Bank and then to XY? If your gripe is with the Poketransporter app and why it can't directly communicate with the 3DS game, consider that the Pokemon has to be stored somewhere until the player boots up Pokemon X and Y (bc the system has changed from a 2 DS system to requiring only 1 console).

So I seriously don't understand, what is your gripe then?

 

[Seil]

I'm getting way too many contradicting posts.

Apparently games =/= apps okay fine.

But apps can work, they just apparently chose not to do it like that and went straight for the maintenance paid services of cloud.

Fine, but I seriously think this argument needs to stop, because I can't get any straight answer here. Too many people are contradicting each other. Like I said, it's pissing me off.

Erm... What? I never said anything about what differentiates games from apps, so the fact you're bringing that up in response to my post makes no sense. I explained a likely reason the apps behave the way they do rather than the way you would like. But apparently it was too complex. I'll try to simplify.

There are two apps. The Bank and Transporter. There must be a reason to make two separate applications. Otherwise, it would be easier to just make the Transporter function an option in Bank and have one solitary application.

Transporter is likely not a proper 3DS application, but instead similar to a DSi application so that it can fully communicate with the Gen V games. Bank, on the other hand is a full fledged 3DS application. These two applications cannot directly communicate with one another. So the cloud service is necessary.

This is all speculation, but it is highly probable.

 

[Hydrohs]

Transporter transports Pokemon to Pokemon Bank because the only other option would be store them on the device, in doing that they could be cloned. To avoid this they must be first sent somewhere the user cannot directly access them, Pokemon Bank. It's not that Pokemon Transporter couldn't send them right to X/Y, it's that it was designed not to do that.

 

[dman_dustin]

Normal programming. You can't program knowing what will be created in the future, programmers are not gods. You can make something backwards compatible, but you can't force something to be forwards compatible.

I don't see it as forwards compatibility if data is being copied and deleted from an older game to a newer game. I see it as a feature of backwards compatibility. However I can understand that the DS and 3DS games cannot directly communicate however that was never what I was arguing.

Forwards Compatibility would be a DS playing a 3DS game. Which wouldn't make sense like you said.

 

[MasterofArcanine]

I know I am showing my internet stupidity here a bit but what is a Cloud System anyways?

 

[Hydrohs]

I don't see it as forwards compatibility if data is being copied and deleted from an older game to a newer game. I see it as a feature of backwards compatibility.

Well it's not forwards compatibility, the game is only doing what it was programmed to do. The Transporter app is just using functions already built into the game.

I know I am showing my internet stupidity here a bit but what is a Cloud System anyways?

Storage on the internet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_storage. In this case, anyway. Cloud systems can do many different things.