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Pokémon - Best Wishes/Black & White (13, 14, 15)

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
I agree that the DA! arc was the worst part of BW; the writers had so many episodes in which to do something cool, but aside from Alexa's debut, the whole arc was devoted to filler. Ugh, what a waste of time. BW as a whole was dreadful in my opinion. I'm glad it's long over, but its legacy of bad writing will haunt the anime forever. :c

I pretty much agree, though while I disliked most of BW, I did like some things, like Team Rocket in the 1st half of BW and the 1st 20 episodes in general because it really felt like a fresh start, excluding the whole Ash acting like a newbie moron again. I also loved the 1st few episodes of when Dawn returned and her interactions with Iris and Cilan, but starting with the Dragonite episode her arc and the Junior Cup arc was horribly written imo. I did like the Iris focused episodes now that I look back at them, they seemed interesting to me now, and I do think Iris was handled decently. Most of BW 2, including the League, Episode N, and DA were just downright horrible though imho.
If I had to rate this series I'd give it either a 4/10 or a 5/10.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
2. The only point of the Battle Frontier was to advertise the third gen games. It was not needed at all. The Unova league and the filler arc at the end was absolutely terrible. However, I will admit that the tournaments throughout the series were done pretty well, especially since there were so many named characters taking part instead of just the 3 main characters and Ash's/female main's rival. Iris not only winning a tournament but defeating Ash and pikachu in the process was a major achievement that Misty never had.

I will agree how tournaments were one of BW saga hightlights. It was refreshing to see all rivals and main cast gathering at one place producing wide array of emotions and humorous interactions. Especially with Iris and Geargiua clash and heated tension, along with Burgundy grumpy nature mixed with jealousy over Cilan higher rank.

Female lead for once stealing glory from Ash was nice change of pace as well when dominating that Don George tournament and winning set of wings. Because Ash most of time wins bigt competitions, so seeing girl succeed for change was satisfying.

However i disagree over Battle Frontier not being needed. While it portrayed return to Kanto terribly not resembling revisit of this region at all aside from title. Not featuring any older gym leader(not even Sabrina when Ash and co were in Saffron city, return of any familiar faces like Misty which could have joined group traveling with them there and advance her own dreams of water master possibly ending as E4 Lorelei apprentice better representing Kanto and Ash homeland that way through another face iconic to this region. No visit of older places, towns, landscapes and various trainers Ash met on his journey initially(like Gielle or AJ), No comeback or throwback to some of his older pokemon like Primeape for example.

Battle Frontier still served very important role in giving May and her rivals build up of story established before showing character actively continuing to improve as coordinator after pretty mediocre performance in Hoenn GF. It allowed to have May finally defeat her most fierce rival Drew and come to cognition of being time to leave Ash and make her own path to follow. It established new scope for Ash to obtain serving as testament to hard work, training and more creative strategies he developed during journey through AG saga. Conquering Battle Frontier and making big leap in becoming recognized as powerful, ingenious and skilled trainer,. Which is important because from future pokemon masters its expected to make name for themselves among other powerful trainers of high caliber.

It gave Brock development in evolving his pokemon like Mudkip, catching new ones like Bonsly, developing better understsnding for his disfunctional family witnessing nice bonding moment with younger brither Forest motivating him to become succesful gym leader and continued to enrich on knowkedge as breeder.

So i wouldnt say BF was waste of time.

On other hand Decolora adventure was disaster, With little to zero development for anyone, Cilan and Iris rivalries with Georgia flopping not going anywhere in end.

Whole adventure through islands not having any real plot, substance and sense of direction. With main cast starting to stagnate after N arc being painfully clear how writers just stalled out until next generation comes out not putting effort at all to tell eventful and endearing story anymore.

Fact how bad departure between Ash and Iris, Cilan was wanting to go visit his hometown and region he originated from just to change mind and depart to Johto with no emotion, attachment and impression of three strong friends saying goodbye existing there says ALOT.

Worst thing of all is how they had material in games to adapt in anime such as World Cup. Which could have received more coverage than just small, local like event in form of Junior Cup which was travesty and disgrace to such huge competition made in games. Biggest event existing in pokemon world gathering powerful trainers from all part od world.

Writers could dedicate whole DA adventure to promotion of World Cup dividing it in multiple cups like junior cup, senior cup, champion cup. Featuring return of older gym leaders, return of previous traveling companions like Misty who could gained alot in meeting and battling all kind of reputable trainers in sharping skills and building way toward reaching elite trainer calliber. And giving more flavor and story to post league adventure.

Give Ash some sense of importance and objective to reach in helping him to discover new alternative ways of building strength of his pokermon progressing goal of becoming pokemon master. While Iris and Cilan could through participation in such events improve their trainer skills, develop better their pokemon and advance forward.

Especially in Iris case helping pokemon like Axew to become more powerful and open doors toward reaching predispositions to eventually evolve.

3. Cilan I felt was a horrible character at first but over time grew to like him more. He's still no Brock, however. As for Iris, I feel she was handled WAY better than Misty ever was. All Misty had going for her was that she was angry and had a crush on Ash. Take that away and she has nothing. Iris was badass and didn't take crap from anyone, including Ash, which was a nice change. It might seem she did not get much development because she started out so strong, but seeing her confidence grow over the course of the show was great.

Is this a joke?

Misty had story to become water pokemon master,learn as much as she can about water type, find and if possible catch legendary pokemon she always dream about, had complex of feeling less worthy compared to Daisy and others along with having issues and fears which stood on way preventing her from going forward(Gyarados specie fear, tendency to judge pokemon by looks, rather than inside strength etc came to mind).

She also had highly passionate, sympathetic and colorful personality capable of showing big range of expressions. From enthusiasm, appreciation for romance, sassy behavior coming with various jokes, along with defiant, strongwilled attitude not letting others to give up and be submissive and lot of unselfish, caring side. Coming of as nuanced and rich in personality protagonist.

In comparison i felt Iris character development was well pretty scarse compared to Misty. Who displayed big change in emotionally growing in more mature, tougher, tolerant and independent individual. Showing various sides to her personality over time as she grew and developed new traits and interest. In developing close appreciation for her human friends, repairing broken rekationship with sisters, overcoming personal childhood trauma and becoming more open and understanding of different opinions, thus accepting better criticism than she used to in early days, Along with working hard for every pokemon and achievement she had with no shortcuts involved.

Iris didn't revealed especially big change in her behavior staying for most part same from start to end of Unova. Coming of as wild, hyperactive, snarky and instinctive. Something she was in reality from start, barring becoming more comfortable with Ash out of box thinking and more selfcritic realizing her own flaws.

Further more while Iris did received more fleshing out and exploration of her dragon master goal, whole development arc was inconsistent. Dissipated all over the place and poorly designed. First writers introduced Axev as main vector behind Iris even going on journey in first place, just to see it dropped defeating whole point behind character existence in middle of road . With supposed story of trainer and small dragon working on improving themselves and developing close bond full of understanding. Which would lead toward Axew fulfillment of dream evolving in powerful Haxorous and serve as proof to Iris coming closer toward dragon master status going nowhere.

Than we get to see Iris story and dreams barely receiving build up or focus until Meloetta arc , just to follow rushed and well pretty cheap way to suiddenly boost her pokemon team and trainer competence through capture of Dragonite. Which while ill admit later lead toward more concreete and meaningful arc in bond between dragon and its trainer eventually being established.

Still came of as forced and poorly designed storyline, mainly because there was no build up or foreshadowing toward Dragonite capture whatsoever. I had no problens with Iris getting fully evolved dragon, since it brought new perspective to character story in having to deal with with disobedient and enraged fully evolved dragon needing to break barriers which existed between them coming to understand and respect each other.
Something which is alot harder to do than its case with baby dragons putting to test Iris talent and ability to understand dragon hearts, allowing to learn more that way.

But i had issue in how factors which contributed toward whole arc were never met. With Iris strength as dragon trainer and expert , amount of training and hard work not reaching predispositions to warrant inclusion of pokemon with such calliber . Considering how there was no foreplay, any story leading toward capture.

Or Iris trainer abilities suddenly jumping 180% over night in Axew which was basically infant with little to no battling, growth and training starting to learn powerful moves out of nowhere such as giga impact managing to affect pokemon of champion level.

I liked Iris. She was unique, funny and interesting character but i also feel her development could have been executed in more consistent and productive way.
 
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Blood Red

【推しの子】
I think I'm still suffering from PTSD because of this saga. Honestly, the best things about it was Team Rocket, Krookodile, Dawn's cameo, and Charizard's return, all of which they somehow managed to screw up. Honestly, I'm glad it's over.
 

sage striaton

wishfulshipper4ever
I don't know why but i'm going to be very disappointed about best wishes. When they introduced Cilan and Iris,the previews..."Wow" I thought that it would be a good season of Pokémon but then...
First
Best wishes was so short!
Second
Ash returned to start
Third
Cilan was a character left in the dark.
I always think that Cilan like a gym leader is great in the game but in the anime this doesn't work. Yes,the sommelier goal it's fantastic but the writers didn't know how work about it.
Maybe it would be very interesting if Cilan was a Pokemon Coordinator/pokemon musical.

At this point I prefer the first rumors about this series:
Ash with Oshawott,Cilan a Pokemon Coordinator who love Pokemon Musical with a Snivy and Iris with a Tepig.
 
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Caseydia

Ace Trainer
I don't know why but i'm going to be very disappointed about best wishes. When they introduced Cilan and Iris,the previews..."Wow" I thought that it would be a good season of Pokémon but then...
First
Best wishes was so short!
Second
Ash returned to start
Third
Cilan was a character left in the dark.
I always think that Cilan like a gym leader is great in the game but in the anime this doesn't work. Yes,the sommelier goal it's fantastic but the writers didn't know how work about it.
Maybe it would be very interesting if Cilan was a Pokemon Coordinator/pokemon musical.

At this point I prefer the first rumors about this series:
Ash with Oshawott,Cilan a Pokemon Coordinator who love Pokemon Musical with a Snivy and Iris with a Tepig.

Cilan was actually paced pretty well in the beginning. It just seems they forgot about how to make him more than sparkle later on.
 

Airi-Chan

Falling Roses
So far, this is my most favorite Pokemon series ever and seriously to follow and watch the developments from Japan airing. My favorite parts about this series:

- Cilan. I love when he acts ridiculous and his tasting time was good (reminds me with Shuu Tsukiyama from Tokyo Ghoul, and I noticed you that he and Tsukiyama were voiced by Mamoru Miyano). Unfortunately, Cilan; in the anime, he only had 3 Pokemon, whereas I was hoping for him owning at least 5 or 6 Pokemon on his team :(

- Iris. I love when black girl became main character! I found Iris was interesting character and different from other Ash's female companions, so I fell in love with her and her unique dream and her backstories. Interestingly, she and famous Madoka Kaname were voiced by same person in Japanese original dub ^^

- Trip. Yop! He is my first love Pokemon rivals TBH. He has great intelligence,nice looking, great strategies, and his development related to Champion Alder. Too bad he always lost at every tournament which made me sad and kinda disappointed. But one made me impressed was his glorification at Junior Cup. I am still wondering for his family backstory that was not told in this series.

- Rivals. Yop, this factor made me in love with this series. So far this series had 7 rivals plus 2 additional rivals. I love them all but unfortunately they had less backstories and incomplete Pokemon team :/. I love Iris and Georgia's rivalry, and also Cilan and Burgundy's rivalry. Virgil was surprisingly good character but he appeared less :/.

- Subway Masters. I couldn't say anything but Subway arc is my most favorite arc and non-gym/rival/e4 battle :')

- N. I thought N wouldn't appear in this series. I was so happy Best Wishes made N arc called episode N. N is non-main/rival character who had best stories ever. I always imagined if N participated on a tournament too....

- Stories were good, having each unique arcs. But too rush :/

- Seiyuu (the term for Japanese VA). Who knows Mamoru Miyano, Aoi Yuuki, Yuuki Kaji, Kouki Uchiyama, Yoko Hikasa, Takuya Eguchi, and more famous seiyuu? Yup! So many mainstream famous seiyuu had been voicing Best Wishes characters, either main, rivals, GL, or supporting characters
 

HoundoomFan

shy shipper
-Iris's interesting past very unique.
-Good TRio scams. Very interesting to watch to see what happened.
-All pokemon had there own personality & good/bad relationships with other pokemon

-Most gym leaders
-Iris as a character & her rival

-Connoisseur/Connaisseuse whatever. Unnecessary, dumb, insulting, makes all characters unlikable know-it-alls. Nope, couldn't find one of em I liked. Cilan? Eggh I had to skip his pointless rambling every time. Burgundy? NO! I can't take her seriously with all the dang YELLING. That COD character? Fffs good riddance.
-Ash: A couple words can describe him: dumb & nice. Really was sad in B/W. His battles where unmemorable and he was just a boring character. Why didn't he leave?
-Iris: While I somewhat find her pretty cool, there's some things I can't stand about her.
1. YES, Ash is a little kid. But what is wrong with that?
2. The way she acts makes her seem superior and better everyone else. Nothing wrong with confidence, but it's really was irritating listing to her most of the time. A plus though, she did not get as irritating as Misty's temper.
3. Her Ice type fear. I just had to roll my eyes when she said she had that cause
A. Self explanatory & was explained in the anime, Dragon is super effective against itself.
B. Most Dragons weren't threatened by Ice. Ice has what? FOUR weaknesses? And how many Dragons had Flamethrower/Fire Blast? I wouldn't be surprised a lot had Steel Wing or Metal Claw. There's some I would bet can learn Ancient Power. Point is, Dragon types should probably fear Dragon types more than Ice.
C. And she wants to be a dragon master lawl
4. Dragonite: The way she got it was sad. Then most her other pokemon got ignored. It's like all her team consisted of was just Dragonite at the end.
-Axew: It wanted to evolve, so why didn't it evolve? Really, it was rarely used once Extodrill obeyed her. Don't know why she'd ignore her first pokemon.
-Bianca: Ick. Extremely unneeded. Really, just why was she even in the anime?
-Trip: Most. Boring. Rival. Ever. His worst insult was saying Ash is from "the bonnies." Really? What Gray said to Ash even angered me. What Paul did even pissed me off. Trip? *yawns*
...So, he's a "jerk" because supposedly his hero said powers most important. What? I think I'm missing something here, because that can't be it. Then he just suddenly changed right.
-Skyla: Another sad representative. Nothing about her thinking made sense. "lolz ya letz just hava 'sky batle' so i can b lazy since i dun wanna b a gym leader but i do lol" And of course, grass types can't find a way to counter her flying types, even though she found a way for Swanna to counter electric types. k.
-TRio: So, their personality is all what? Just evil? Egh >C
-Rival Destinies & Decolore Islands. Both seasons where just boring. Like I say later on, the battles in B/W where mostly dull, and RD was no exception. Tournament after tournament after tournament after tournament after tournament tournament after tournament. STTTTTTOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPP! GAh. It was so boring. And Decolore... So what happened besides Cilan & Iris leaving?
-The Leauge & Battles: Just mostly awful. Not memorable. the 6vs3 gym match just made Ash look sad, along with a lot of other battles (Scraggy fail, Pikachu vs Snivy, etc).
-It felt like a big filler most the time. Did Cilan get anywhere with his goal? Who the hell knows. How do we even know? How about Iris? Doesn't really look like it. She only got two Dragon types. Both seemed the same at throughout their journey. Their rivals where as much of a joke as TRio, except for Trip.
-Dawn's camo = BIG DISAPPOINT! She was mostly BG. All she did was battle just cause, made fun of the boys with Iris, and got knocked out in a USELESS TOURNAMENT. May helped Dawn earn her first ribbon, and Misty had like her own arc with Togipei. Absolutely awful for her last appearance in the anime.
 
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To this day I swear the only three reasons people hate this saga was:(Not counting DA since that was season 16)
1.Ash's Regression as a trainer
2.The Unova League
3.The Battles

Really other it was actually a pretty decent saga when you look at. The first half of the saga(until Nimasba) was almost perfect and was tons better than the first half of XY(until XY047). Seriously TR were at there best and Trip and Cameron were great characters but its shame that their battles sucked.

The second half was a bit of a let down though compared to the first half and the Rivals not getting closure as well as the Unova League is what made it kinda bad imo.

Oh, Clilan too was a great character and I don't know why he gets the shade all the time.
 

Vernikova

Champion
So I finally got around to watching this series after putting it off since the day it was first announced, and I think it's okay. Ash made more mistakes than some of his previous incarnations, but it didn't really bother me. I thought Iris and Cilan were okay. Most of the rivals were okay. I wished they did something more with Trip but whatever.

To cut it short: I just found it okay for the most part. The Decelore Islands arc was a downturn, but it's nothing unknown to the series. I don't have a negative opinion of it.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
This saga was bad.

When I first saw it, I thought it was frustrating and annoying as everyone else thought. I realize that this series represents what is wrong with the anime in general and cranks them up to eleven.

Exhibit A - Ash loses to a battle he could have won
Well, in DP, he did lose to Kenny off the heels of his eight badge. You can argue his training with a gym leader did help him improve his battling, but Ash's bad direction did cost him the battle. Say what you can about Ash's experience, bad direction can ruin anything. Why the the name of hell below would you use a pokemon with an entire move set that is utterly resisted by your opponent? To make matters worse, Ash did not pull any of his normal tricks. Plot armor on Kenny's side anyone?

Exhibit B - The pacing
This one, I'll give you. The pacing for the filler arc was poorly chosen. Island hopping? Are we the United States's Pacific fleet in World War II? The OS and DP had their own pacing problems. The former happened way to quickly while the latter was way too slow. Back to Best Wishes. The League was done in 108 episodes. Normally, the league would be done in either 140 or 150 -ish episodes, but nope. To make matters worse, there was an even more rushed Team Plasma Arc. It was done in fourteen episodes with filler.

Exhibit C - Not explaining things
Time passes, but no one ages. That is how this very forum treats time in the anime because that's basically how it works. With that being said, Ash is still ten. It doesn't bother me as it baffles, but the fact that a guy can go through four regions on foot and still doesn't age. I would have taken a random line about how their calendar has like 1,000 days instead of 365.

Ash's experience going down the drain is another thing that baffles me. Again, I understand it's suppose to be a soft reboot, but anything, even a throw-a-way line, would make me forgive it.

Exhibit D - Characterization and Goals
I feel like there was more to Iris and Cilan that we saw. Their goals and character really didn't go anywhere other than just being there. I think with the announcement of BW2 caused them to abort several arcs planned. Their characters (along with Ash's) feel so incomplete.

Team Plasma was a bare bones villain group period. It's like these writers are trying to invoke the feel of the nineties with their black and white plan (pun intended). I really have to compare their goals to the games because it's an adaptation, but changes in adaptations need to make sense. While BW Team Plasma was charismatic, BW2 were not. The latter used charisma to control and get what they want while the latter used force. Petty mind control has been done before by Team Rocket before. It's not that exciting or new. It's boring.

Ultimately, this series is one thing, lazy.

I appreciate the fact that the series was at least "so bad, it's good quality." I got a laugh at least.
 
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JudySpell

Banned
BW tested my patience and I wish it had been written better instead of it trying to copy OS for a while, which it didn't do very well any way. 5/10
 

Pikachu979

Sinnoh Champion
Best wishes was a mixed bag to me. I liked some things like Iris and Cilan, and the tournaments for getting rivals to interact and shine in battle. But i disliked Ash this saga , some of the characters and some of the battles. Overall it's not my favorite but it isn't my least favorite either.
 
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Mrs. Oreo

Banned
To me Best Wishes wasn't so bad in fact some of my favourite characters came from this saga like Trip and Georgia for instance. I thought the tournaments were the best parts as well as Episode N tho I wish Ash had fought Team plasma using Zekrom. ^^
 

Lunala

Banned
I definitely did not find this series to be good. Not one single good character was introduced, aside from maybe Cilan. Ash's team was horrible and the writers decided to reset his brain for whatever reason.
 
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Wednesdayz

Meowth fanatic
Unova had the worst League and "filler arc" of the series. I mean at least Orange Islands and Battle Frontier had a purpose, I can't even understand what the point of those island episodes were.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Best Wishes seemed somewhat pedestrian at first, but repeated viewings of the episodes has made me appreciate it. The saga's tone was fun for the most part, and the cast had amazing chemistry. I thought that the rivals such as Langley and Cabernet were great, and I'll always have a soft spot for the Rocket-dan's black uniforms and temporary personality change.
 

Alloutℯ

Banned
I will always hate how dumb BW made Ash when he went to Unova, but I loved how BW had so many competitions and how Iris and Cilan were fun teammates.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
In hindsight, I wish that Best Wishes hadn't been split into two parts just for the sake of the B/W sequel games. I wasn't fond of the fact that Satoshi's last Gym match was against Homika instead of Shaga either.
 

MockingJ

Banned
Unova has some of the worst fillers but the saga was redeemed by having good recurring characters and a fun vibe. The tournies were good too minus the league maybe.
 
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