Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Theories and Loopholes

[dirkac]

Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Theories and Loopholes

Ever got a theory for the PMD Games you wanted to share?

Well, I guess this is the place.


But, uh, yeah.

Anybody remember the Decrepit Lab and Power Plant Friend Areas in the original?

 

[Sunset Star]

The thing about PMD2 is that it's confirmed that humans exists there, whereas in PMD1 it's only implied and in PMD3 they're only from fairy tales. In the latter two games, it says your character game from another dimension, but not PMD2, unless you consider the future another dimension.

 

[dirkac]

Well, the PMD2 Dark Future is another dimension, as the dimension that currently exists in the timeline is the "Light Future", but that doesn't mean the Dark Future is gone.

 

[Wishmaker Latias]

The thing about PMD2 is that it's confirmed that humans exists there, whereas in PMD1 it's only implied and in PMD3 they're only from fairy tales. In the latter two games, it says your character game from another dimension, but not PMD2, unless you consider the future another dimension.

In PMD2 you travel from another dimension then travel back in time and lose your memories.
Well that is my theory at least.

 

[Sunset Star]

Well, the PMD2 Dark Future is another dimension, as the dimension that currently exists in the timeline is the "Light Future", but that doesn't mean the Dark Future is gone.

As in, the dark future exists on another timeline?

 

[dirkac]

As in, the dark future exists on another timeline?

Pretty much, it was the original timeline, until you changed the past.

 

[Wishmaker Latias]

The fact that humans existed in the mystery dungeon world could be true.
As you mentioned there are two friend areas that could be built by humans.
Also the Unown relics also had been built by someone(They could be built by pokemon , but still is a theory).
Not to mention human made pokemon like Votorb ,Electrode ,Porygon lines. Even Mewtwo said that it was created for fighting(But who created it. Maybe humans created it in the Decrepit lab?).
Also who made all TMs/HMs? Besides some pokemon know what humans are(Even if just from stories).

Besides Decrepit lab has a interesting in game description.

An abandoned lab built by humans long ago. Left to fall into disrepair, it is now home to Pokémon.

 

[Kutie Pie]

So if according to the recent PMD humans are now just a bunch of fairy tales, does this mean the world takes place centuries after a mass extinction of the human population--or that the humans are now so rare and few, they are considered a "mirage" much like how Mew or other Legendaries are known as "phantom Pokémon"? There's been three games, but I don't think they take place in the same village/region. If there are currently six-plus regions in the mainstream games, that means the number of regions should still be the same. And even then you don't appear to explore every square inch of land.

Though we don't know what happened to cut the human population (unless it was explained and I missed it), could it be possible that humans have just gone into hiding and the Pokémon haven't found them yet they're now the Mole People!? And would they be in marvel over the humans, much like how the humans are in marvel over Legendaries?

And speaking of Legendaries, if the games do take place hundreds of years into the future, does that prove that Legendaries live a much longer life than normal Pokémon, or are even immortal, or that they breed and they're just the descendents? The fact that Mewtwo's survived that long (and is still the original as he mentions being "created for fighting") as well also raises questions, but that topic could go elsewhere.

 

[Wishmaker Latias]

So if according to the recent PMD humans are now just a bunch of fairy tales, does this mean the world takes place centuries after a mass extinction of the human population--or that the humans are now so rare and few, they are considered a "mirage" much like how Mew or other Legendaries are known as "phantom Pokémon"? There's been three games, but I don't think they take place in the same village/region. If there are currently six-plus regions in the mainstream games, that means the number of regions should still be the same. And even then you don't appear to explore every square inch of land.

Though we don't know what happened to cut the human population (unless it was explained and I missed it), could it be possible that humans have just gone into hiding and the Pokémon haven't found them yet they're now the Mole People!? And would they be in marvel over the humans, much like how the humans are in marvel over Legendaries?

And speaking of Legendaries, if the games do take place hundreds of years into the future, does that prove that Legendaries live a much longer life than normal Pokémon, or are even immortal, or that they breed and they're just the descendents? The fact that Mewtwo's survived that long (and is still the original as he mentions being "created for fighting") as well also raises questions, but that topic could go elsewhere.

My idea is that the mystery dungeon world is in another dimension than the main games.
Yeah you have planes in Unova and rockets in Hoenn , not much of a chance of not finding a continent with that technology.(Unless those who like get near it crash , fall into that world and get turned into a pokemon. Kind of like the Bermudian triangle).
I also first thought of Mewtwo killing most of the population then ,but why the lab is not burned to the ground in that case. Maybe Mewtwo was kept captive in the lab ,then something happened ,humans disappeared and Mewtwo left the lab.

 

[Kutie Pie]

My idea is that the mystery dungeon world is in another dimension than the main games.

Perhaps, but my question still stands either way. Humans existed at some point, otherwise the Pokémon in that dimension wouldn't know who or what humans were. I'm not sure that the younger generations do, but older generations know about it through "fairy tales".

I also first thought of Mewtwo killing most of the population then ,but why the lab is not burned to the ground in that case. Maybe Mewtwo was kept captive in the lab ,then something happened ,humans disappeared and Mewtwo left the lab.

That's make Mewtwo a mass murderer, then xD, which could explain his isolation, but if this is similar to the games (chances are PMD is closer to the mainstream games), he was out in the world many-many-many years before the beginning of any of the PMD games. He could've been in a cave all that time, though (judging from his current location in Pokémon Village's Unknown Cave, he apparently travels looking for caves he must love caves).

Though I have to question how it is a human can become a Pokémon. How does that work? Does Arceus just manipulate your genetic code to turn you physically into a Pokémon, or is your conscious just thrust into a Pokémon who may-or-may-not be alive? The implications are endless and creepy.

 

[Wishmaker Latias]

Though I have to question how it is a human can become a Pokémon. How does that work? Does Arceus just manipulate your genetic code to turn you physically into a Pokémon, or is your conscious just thrust into a Pokémon who may-or-may-not be alive? The implications are endless and creepy.

I think in PMD1 Gardevoir(I think Gardevoir said this , but I cannot say for sure)said that "We were looking for a human with a pure heart to help stop these disasters. You are that human <Player>.
I am not sure if this is exactly the same , but I don't want to spend a couple hours of watching Lets Plays of it to clarify. I cannot ensure that We was the correct version ,but I think that it goes better than I. Maybe We would mean spirits of some sort? As Gardevoir became a spirit before the actual story it would make sense if Gardevoir would say about her as a spirit. Or it could be like humans used a thing like the Animus in the Assassins creed universe to send you there.
Also the Ending said that it was time to return to Your world as your destiny in this one is fulfilled. But you were given a chance to stay with your partner.
That gives points to the multiple dimensions theory.

PMD2 According to my theory goes like this:

The world of the future has its time flow stopped. All pokemon live in that world where time stopped flowing.
Then yet again some higher force sends a human to help.(This time in human form)
He teams up with one local pokemon-Grovyle to stop this crysis.
As they gather time gears to repair the temporal tower ,Primal Dialga ,Dusknoir and his group of Sableye try to prevent you from doing that.
So the two gather the time gears , set off to fix the tower and there they face Darkrai who is responsible for the crysis.
Darkrai believes that Grovyle is a greater threat than the human ,so he attacks Grovyle. The player shields Grovyle ,while Darkrai escapes with his portal.
With the disrupted time and space the portal transforms the player into a pokemon , wipes out his memory and separates you from Grovyle.
You wash ashore (in the past) where your partner finds you.
Then the Story begins.

So basically you get sent to this dimension as a human , due to interference from Darkrai you get sent back in time and turn into a pokemon.(Possibly getting the Dimensional scream due to that kind of travelling).

 

[dirkac]

Perhaps, but my question still stands either way. Humans existed at some point, otherwise the Pokémon in that dimension wouldn't know who or what humans were. I'm not sure that the younger generations do, but older generations know about it through "fairy tales".



That's make Mewtwo a mass murderer, then xD, which could explain his isolation, but if this is similar to the games (chances are PMD is closer to the mainstream games), he was out in the world many-many-many years before the beginning of any of the PMD games. He could've been in a cave all that time, though (judging from his current location in Pokémon Village's Unknown Cave, he apparently travels looking for caves he must love caves).

Though I have to question how it is a human can become a Pokémon. How does that work? Does Arceus just manipulate your genetic code to turn you physically into a Pokémon, or is your conscious just thrust into a Pokémon who may-or-may-not be alive? The implications are endless and creepy.

Well, it is at least confirmed that Humans existed at one point in Red/Blue, and that the Player existed in TDS and BSL.

In GtI the only mention is in fairytales, so it isn't actually confirmed to have existed at some point in that game/world/universe/dimension/whatever.

Well, according to Cryptic Cave's description, well, this: This very mysterious spot, said to be deep inside a dungeon, is the perfect place to store energy without expending any effort.

Meaning that Western Cave could possible also have such properties, allowing Mewtwo's extended life period, if it has an average lifespan.

Well, according to Red and Blue, Ninetails' Curse is one way to teansform to one, albeit it requires a 1000 year period of time in between.

Also according to that Game, Gardevoir more or less had a "job submission" of sorts, where you volunteered to have your memory erased so as to not distract you on your past life.

While in GtI, it is said that the Voice of Life contacted the humans and turned them into Pokémon through a dream (at which I personally believe their human form to be in a coma, due to some of Hydreigon's dialogue suggesting that).

TDS and BSL are the most vague on it, since they solely have the Player come from the Future of Darkness that turned into a Pokémon seperated from Grovyle due to an attack from Darkrai, so perhaps an attack that interferes with time travel during the process of it can cause mutations such as the Player tunring into a Pokémon?

 

[jireh the provider]

You know something that is a bit cumbersome on the human transformations, for some of us players of this series, we imagine that the protagonist ended up in an accident somewhere in the human world. Or worse, committed suicide ... yet almost dead.

So probably, in the case of Gates to Infinity where humans are just "Fairy Tales" (ouch), either the timeline of this series (GTI) is somewhere a century after the Explorers saga. Or before the Rescue Team saga.

But I kinda agree that The Animus theory (in Poke style) is probably possible and disturbing. Like I dunno, somewhere in a certain region in the world of pokemon, since there are so many poor children, instead of saving them, they put them in a complete coma. Then transfer their souls via something like the animus. But it traps them in the Mystery Dungeon Worlds (just like Revelations from Assassins Creed. Desmond is stuck there for quite some time)

 

[Rakurai]

I've always felt that the world of each PMD is its own separate universe, rather then being the same one. If they actually brought up events from one of the past games, I'd be more inclined to believe they took place in the same realm.

I do wish they'd elaborate on why it is that the Pokemon in each game seem perfectly aware of what humans are for once, though. It always seems to imply that they existed in their world at some point in time, but they never go anywhere with it.

 

[Wishmaker Latias]

I've always felt that the world of each PMD is its own separate universe, rather then being the same one. If they actually brought up events from one of the past games, I'd be more inclined to believe they took place in the same realm.

Well there are some similarities.
Guildmaster Wigglytuff acts a bit like the one who sold you friend areas in the first game. You know all of that "Friendly friends" and "YOOM-TAH" talking it does all the time. Descendant of that same Wigglytuff?

Also the "Centuries later" Theory is also interesting.
May I suggest a comparison?

PMD1 Map
And
PMD2 Map

First thing I want to point out is:
The island Northwest of the main region.(Mt.Faraway and the 3 elemental fields in PMD1)
In PMD2 there are two mountains and the dark crater.
I would say Heatran awoken from its slumber and forced the volcano out of the ground.
Sometime after the Giant volcano erupted (Destroying two fields and making the 3rd one the Dark crater) possibly destroying part of Mt.Faraway in the process.
The legendary beasts fled while Ho-oh stayed in its domain-Mt.Mistral (The remains of Mt.Faraway).
Also Mt.Mistral is the only non fire based dungeon in there (Possibly it was revived by Ho-oh , letting other life live there again).
Mt.Mistral could shrink due to other reasons.(Erosion ,Earthquakes etc.)

Another thing is how the continent changed its shape in some time.
But Sky tower (Now known as Sky stairs) stays in the North of the continent.

 

[dirkac]

I've always felt that the world of each PMD is its own separate universe, rather then being the same one. If they actually brought up events from one of the past games, I'd be more inclined to believe they took place in the same realm.

I do wish they'd elaborate on why it is that the Pokemon in each game seem perfectly aware of what humans are for once, though. It always seems to imply that they existed in their world at some point in time, but they never go anywhere with it.

Well, the BSL (Blazing/Stormy/Light) takes place in Grovyle's time, so I'd say that they are sequels to TDS, meaning that at least those two take place in the same universe.

 

[Hpfm2]

So, first of all, I have not played the third one yet, so this is probably a bad idea, as I'm getting spoilers here for sure- but I just can't resist a PMD thread.

As for a timeline, I always saw the games following a timeline, but I never made up my mind about the relation to the mains eries. Sometimes I think about this worls like an alternate dimension, ans sometimes as the same dimensio, just into the future, where humans are extinct (possibly because of MewTwo, I dunno) and pokemon brain have "evolved" into a human-like society, rather than animal-like (maybe because they still remembered what humans made and did thing accordingly. Houses, shops, that sort of stuff.). The "other dimensio" theory is more attractive in the sense that is easier to explain, you just say "Oh, it's a diferent world" and poof, all the diferences are explained, but I personally like the other one better.

As for if they are all in the same realm- Yes, and I also offer Wigglituff as a proof. More than a descendant, I think it's the same pokemon. Funny story, I played EoT before playing BRT, and as soon I saw that Wigglytuff in the friend area i just KNEW it was the same guy (of course it might not be, but I like to think it is )

Humans... That's the one thing that throws me off. From what I've read in this post, the GtI game seems to act accordingly to the "this is set in the future" theory. The other two... It seems that you are the only human in a world populated with pokemon with human-like behaviour, which always confused me. I don't remember BRT, but if indeed we are offered the chance to comeback to "our world", then that's a point to the alternative dimension theory, I guess.

UNLESS! UNLESS! Okay, okay, hear me out for a second!

The PMD world is set in the future of the main series, when all humans are extinct. You, as a human come from a diferent dimension, but that dimension, is not the Main series dimension. It's THIS dimension! I mean the real world, get it? What do you think?

 

[dirkac]

So, first of all, I have not played the third one yet, so this is probably a bad idea, as I'm getting spoilers here for sure- but I just can't resist a PMD thread.

As for a timeline, I always saw the games following a timeline, but I never made up my mind about the relation to the mains eries. Sometimes I think about this worls like an alternate dimension, ans sometimes as the same dimensio, just into the future, where humans are extinct (possibly because of MewTwo, I dunno) and pokemon brain have "evolved" into a human-like society, rather than animal-like (maybe because they still remembered what humans made and did thing accordingly. Houses, shops, that sort of stuff.). The "other dimensio" theory is more attractive in the sense that is easier to explain, you just say "Oh, it's a diferent world" and poof, all the diferences are explained, but I personally like the other one better.

As for if they are all in the same realm- Yes, and I also offer Wigglituff as a proof. More than a descendant, I think it's the same pokemon. Funny story, I played EoT before playing BRT, and as soon I saw that Wigglytuff in the friend area i just KNEW it was the same guy (of course it might not be, but I like to think it is )

Humans... That's the one thing that throws me off. From what I've read in this post, the GtI game seems to act accordingly to the "this is set in the future" theory. The other two... It seems that you are the only human in a world populated with pokemon with human-like behaviour, which always confused me. I don't remember BRT, but if indeed we are offered the chance to comeback to "our world", then that's a point to the alternative dimension theory, I guess.

UNLESS! UNLESS! Okay, okay, hear me out for a second!

The PMD world is set in the future of the main series, when all humans are extinct. You, as a human come from a diferent dimension, but that dimension, is not the Main series dimension. It's THIS dimension! I mean the real world, get it? What do you think?

While this makes sense, remember that in BRT, the Friend Areas of Decrepit Lab and Power Plant state that they were created by Humans, making them existant in that Game, meaning that humans must have somehow existed in that timeline.

 

[Hpfm2]

While this makes sense, remember that in BRT, the Friend Areas of Decrepit Lab and Power Plant state that they were created by Humans, making them existant in that Game, meaning that humans must have somehow existed in that timeline.

Yeah, that's what I mean- Humans existed in that timeline a long time ago, because it is set on the future of the main series. SO the humans that created those things are same humans of the main series. Heck, we may be traveling through Kanto in PMD, for all of we know.

 

[Kutie Pie]

Also the "Centuries later" Theory is also interesting.
May I suggest a comparison?

PMD1 Map
And
PMD2 Map

o_____o That actually makes sense.

You know... in my mind, I had seen them as two different continents, but somehow I felt they were in the same place for some reason or another. I don't think the Guild from EoT/E/S is in the same place as the Friend Areas from Red/Blue Rescue, still... Meanwhile, there's no complete map of GtI yet? Do we know if it's on the same continent or not?

And adding onto the human theory, I just remembered that in GtI, it was mentioned that humans were brought to the world other than you, the player, but they're gone now--presumably dead. So even if humans never existed in their world to begin with (but someone would've had to build some of the abandoned buildings unless the Pokémon really were that civilized), they knew that there were humans in Pokémon bodies, or at least know of their existence from somewhere.