Pokémon Sun and Moon - General Discussion Thread

[WhiteBlair]

Where did you get that it was only them ?

It said they shared a secret, not that only them have it.
And at the time of the reveal neither snorlax or alolan raichu were a thing so yeah.

It was stated to be a secret between Rockruff and the starters. You don't share a secret, if already is a commonly-known feature among other community. The secret in relation to having specific Z-Move, should only be the case if the starters and Rockruff change forms after utilizing the move; distingusihing them from the other ones who are capable to use their own moves.

 

[clbgolden12]

It was stated to be a secret between Rockruff and the starters. You don't share a secret, if already is a commonly-known feature among other community. The secret in relation to having specific Z-Move, should only be the case if the starters and Rockruff change forms after utilizing the move; distingusihing them from the other ones who are capable to use their own moves.

In all fairness, it's not like something like split evo forms or Syncrho would be exclusive for them either.

 

[Endless]

Anybody want to see the Mandarin trailer. It shows a bit of new stuff. Only a bit. Including the Fighting type Z-move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBBEe-Q_C_g

I think all of that was shown during the Direct, but was cut out for whatever reason on the other youtube videos.
Either way, I think it is worth noting that the areas you find Solgaleo and Lunala in look different here compared to when we first saw them. I wonder if it is just the area being more polished in later trailers, or if we will run into them multiple times. Probably the former.

 

[GDK]

Anybody want to see the Mandarin trailer. It shows a bit of new stuff. Only a bit. Including the Fighting type Z-move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBBEe-Q_C_g

The fighting z move could be seen in the european too. And it's in an understable language.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

In all fairness, it's not like something like split evo forms or Syncrho would be exclusive for them either.

It would depend on how those split evolutions forms were accomplished, to be honest. Inkay having an evolution wasn't new, but how you achieved it was, and that's exclusive to the Inkay line.

But I'm certainly not trying to argue for or against. I'm still really split on if the starters will have split final forms or not, I think it could go both ways.

EDIT: Can't comment on the synchro...as we don't have synchro in the games. So technically it would be new, and could be exclusive to them. But I really don't think synchro is gonna happen. I could be wrong though.

 

[Daisukereds]

Well, z-moves have yet to show form changes, so it could still be possible, but I think it's more likely that they would just get signature z-moves without the form changes. I don't think z-moves will lead to form changes. As mascot Pokémon they are prime candidates to get signature z-moves, so rockruff evolution and the starter finals seem safe guesses for that.

I'm not necessarily willing to bet that's the secret that they share yet though, only because Rockruffs secret has recently been said to be in regards to its evolution, as the coro coro has promised us info this month on his "secret evolution" with a poster and multi-issue comic starting and everything. This could just mean that rockruff has two secrets, one to his evolution and one to the starters, but personally to me, I think it unlikely they would build up two separate secrets between issues that have no correlation.

Aerodactyl, I've seen you around, and I agree with you every time! I think Z-Moves will be just attacks.. specially since those Forms would be temporary, and VERY similar to how Megas work. I still wonder if you can PROTECT or switch in an immune type vs the Z-Move that is going to be used against you. If that is possible, they would be more manageable than Mega Pokémon.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

Aerodactyl, I've seen you around, and I agree with you every time! I think Z-Moves will be just attacks.. specially since those Forms would be temporary, and VERY similar to how Megas work. I still wonder if you can PROTECT or switch in an immune type vs the Z-Move that is going to be used against you. If that is possible, they would be more manageable than Mega Pokémon.

"More manageable" in this case would mean "nobody will bother using them." Z moves will need serious effects beyond power for people to give up using a versatile item. Breaking through Protect would be a start, as would providing some kind of stat enhancement after being used.

Basically unless they provide benefits that last beyond their one time use or allow a pretty much guaranteed KO I can't see many using them for a serious battle.

 

[Requiem Aeternam]

I still wonder if you can PROTECT or switch in an immune type vs the Z-Move that is going to be used against you. If that is possible, they would be more manageable than Mega Pokémon.

I'm curious about this myself. I do believe that these moves will be blocked by Protect but of course they obviously could surprise us by making Z-Moves hit through it. I'm also curious how they will work in double and triple battles. Are they single target moves or will they hit multiple targets? Or will we maybe get Z-Moves that are single target but get different ones that hit multiple targets? It's anyone's guess at this point.

 

[JVLightningLover]

I think all of that was shown during the Direct, but was cut out for whatever reason on the other youtube videos.
Either way, I think it is worth noting that the areas you find Solgaleo and Lunala in look different here compared to when we first saw them. I wonder if it is just the area being more polished in later trailers, or if we will run into them multiple times. Probably the former.

No, the Direct didn't include the Fighting Z-Move, which is hilarious btw. Lucario finishes its animation, then it just stands there while crazy energy fists and feet shoot out of it. It's just nonchalantly firing off ultimate power, like it's no big deal.

 

[Tuoko]

I just realized something. I think Rockruff and the starter's secret is that they have special z-moves.

I doubt it is.

Joe said on Twitter a few months back, when the secret was first mentioned, that the secret is on their bodies. Well, CoroCoro said that. The secret has something to do with their appearances now or in the future, not them having a Z-Move.

 

[gliscor&yanmega]

No, the Direct didn't include the Fighting Z-Move, which is hilarious btw. Lucario finishes its animation, then it just stands there while crazy energy fists and feet shoot out of it. It's just nonchalantly firing off ultimate power, like it's no big deal.

Europe and Japanese ones had it. I think the Europe one had one slight different scene than the Japanese one(Which the Mandarin one seems to be the exact same as), but not anything major, just showing overworld npcs. North American one didn't have it though, just the Ghost one. I think I may favor that one too, ghostly arms coming out the ground and surrounding you...what's not to like?

 

[Endless]

No, the Direct didn't include the Fighting Z-Move, which is hilarious btw. Lucario finishes its animation, then it just stands there while crazy energy fists and feet shoot out of it. It's just nonchalantly firing off ultimate power, like it's no big deal.

Huh, I watched the European Direct and it certainly had that clip. I assumed the European and American one were the same but I guess there must have been differences. I have also watched the Japanese and it had that clip.

 

[Daisukereds]

"More manageable" in this case would mean "nobody will bother using them." Z moves will need serious effects beyond power for people to give up using a versatile item. Breaking through Protect would be a start, as would providing some kind of stat enhancement after being used. Basically unless they provide benefits that last beyond their one time use or allow a pretty much guaranteed KO I can't see many using them for a serious battle.

We already have variations, no? Electric Z-Move can be Physical or Special, depending on the move that you use it with. We haven't seen them being used with Status moves. Most probably, they give access to higher base-attack moves.. even if they are one-time use. I can imagine them being used with moves you don't have STAB or high base-attack moves that will help get rid of a "counter" Pokémon. For example, those Pokemon that get something like Rock Tomb, but not Stone Edge.
Also, more manageable in the sense that they might be avoided, as they are a one-turn-trick (see below).

I'm curious about this myself. I do believe that these moves will be blocked by Protect but of course they obviously could surprise us by making Z-Moves hit through it. I'm also curious how they will work in double and triple battles. Are they single target moves or will they hit multiple targets? Or will we maybe get Z-Moves that are single target but get different ones that hit multiple targets? It's anyone's guess at this point.

Yeah, makes me wonder.. what if you switch a ground-type Pokémon vs an Electric Z-Move? Or even Shedinja! (the King of Z-Move evasion, haha). There are lots of questions still.

 

[JVLightningLover]

Europe and Japanese ones had it. I think the Europe one had one slight different scene than the Japanese one(Which the Mandarin one seems to be the exact same as), but not anything major, just showing overworld npcs. North American one didn't have it though, just the Ghost one. I think I may favor that one too, ghostly arms coming out the ground and surrounding you...what's not to like?

Why didn't we American get to see it? Weird...

But yeah, I like the Ghost-Type Z-Move, playing up that shadowy element.

 

[Gabriel Faria]

While the concept of exclusive Z moves seems cool, I'm concerned about the fan service it will open, specially because it's much easier to create them than megas. I think it will end up being given to the same as always with a little sprinkles here and there.

 

[clbgolden12]

I doubt it is.

Joe said on Twitter a few months back, when the secret was first mentioned, that the secret is on their bodies. Well, CoroCoro said that. The secret has something to do with their appearances now or in the future, not them having a Z-Move.

Are you sure? I thought the description was in their bodies.

 

[Julia Artemis]

I doubt it is.

Joe said on Twitter a few months back, when the secret was first mentioned, that the secret is on their bodies. Well, CoroCoro said that. The secret has something to do with their appearances now or in the future, not them having a Z-Move.

So does that play into that alchemy rumor that was going around awhile back?

 

[Class Zero]

We already have variations, no? Electric Z-Move can be Physical or Special, depending on the move that you use it with.

When did we see this?

 

[Beloberto]

I don't get why people keep saying "Real leaks can have fake information in it too". I mean, what is the difference for me, the player, between a fake leak and a real leak with unreliable information?

So, I look at the Alola leak and think "Ok, this one may be right, but some of those infos may not be accurate. I don't know which ones and how inaccurate they can be. So the 'Bug/Psychic Butterfree' may be an exact 'Bug/Psychic Butterfree', may be a 'Bug/Somethingelse Butterfree', may be even a 'Bug/Psychic Venomoth', or it can be nothing at all and this bit of information may be totally wrong".
I will only know which parts are accurate after I get confirmation of the same said parts through official reveals (a point where the leak ceases to have a meaning anyway).

So... how is that any different from a fake leak? If I can't trust the content of a leak, if I don't know which parts are fake, the varying degrees of lack of accuracy, etc, how is it any different from a completely fake leak that can end up being right in one or two things out of luck?


I'm not being ironic here, I really don't see what is the difference and why so many people are so eager to defend leaks based on that. To me it's like discussing semantics.

 

[clbgolden12]

I don't get why people keep saying "Real leaks can have fake information in it too". I mean, what is the difference for me, the player, between a fake leak and a real leak with unreliable information?

So, I look at the Alola leak and think "Ok, this one may be right, but some of those infos may not be accurate. I don't know which ones and how inaccurate they can be. So the 'Bug/Psychic Butterfree' may be an exact 'Bug/Psychic Butterfree', may be a 'Bug/Somethingelse Butterfree', may be even a 'Bug/Psychic Venomoth', or it can be nothing at all and this bit of information may be totally wrong".
I will only know which parts are accurate after I get confirmation of the same said parts through official reveals (a point where the leak ceases to have a meaning anyway).

So... how is that any different from a fake leak? If I can't trust the content of a leak, if I don't know which parts are fake, the varying degrees of lack of accuracy, etc, how is it any different from a completely fake leak that can end up being right in one or two things out of luck?


I'm not being ironic here, I really don't see what is the difference and why so many people are so eager to defend leaks based on that. To me it's like discussing semantics.

You are right to some extent, but for the most part real leaks with fake stuff typically have more real than fake. Take the XY Pokébeach leak, for example, which has much more real than it has fake.