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Pokémon Sun and Moon - General Discussion Thread

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willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
Why would they make a sequel where Alola gets the standard gym challenge? If they were going to do that (if it happens, surely it means it was always the plan, since the rumoured Stars was being developed, apparently alongside S&M), then why bother with the Trials thing, at all?

The whole deal with this game is "alola is differen than other regions, they have their own costumes, there is no gym challenge like the rest of the regions". If they just succumb to the other region's costume, this game loses its value altogether. If that was the plan, why make this game at all? They would just make 8 gyms in the game along side the trials and claim from the start that Alola has its costumes but it's adapting to the gym system from other regions.
 

BlackButterfree

Well-Known Member
Why would they make a sequel where Alola gets the standard gym challenge? If they were going to do that (if it happens, surely it means it was always the plan, since the rumoured Stars was being developed, apparently alongside S&M), then why bother with the Trials thing, at all?

The whole deal with this game is "alola is differen than other regions, they have their own costumes, there is no gym challenge like the rest of the regions". If they just succumb to the other region's costume, this game loses its value altogether. If that was the plan, why make this game at all? They would just make 8 gyms in the game along side the trials and claim from the start that Alola has its costumes but it's adapting to the gym system from other regions.

Well as far back as Lt. Surge's gym, gyms have more often than not had some type of "trial"-esque puzzle. This was especially prominent in Gen. 3 onwards.

These gyms could easily keep their Sun and Moon trial, then have the actual battle with the totem in their respective gym.

I mean, with the inclusion of Kahili, and the replacement of Nanu with Acerola, there are 12 people to make up the Alolan League (if Nanu for some reason or another decided to become a Gym Leader, despite turning down the Elite 4 position, and if Hapu is fine being a Gym Leader even though she should technically be an Elite 4). With important NPC's like Hau, Gladion and Lillie being so integral to the story, any one of them could become the PC's successor in their absence, leading to a full 13-member league.

GL's: Ilima, Lana, Kiawe, Mallow, Sophocles, Nanu (if he chooses), Mina, Hapu (if she chooses)
E4: Hala, Olivia, Acerola, Kahili
Champion: Hau/Gladion/Lillie/Professor Kukui (after all, he is a challenger and the one you defeat to become Champion)

There's no way they have the perfect amount of people for a League, have 8 random plots of land that are completely empty and correlate to 8 gyms, and then not introduce the league in a sequel. If Stars is real and is just a third version (which is always a parallel timeline rather than past or present), then obviously we won't see the league. But if it's a sequel, we'll definitely see a league.


Also, why has no one offered an explanation for what me and PurpleOrange are experiencing with the Pokédex and random Shinies showing up in our seen lists?
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
Man, I'm rather sick of "Type matchup test" and "Inverse type matchup test" on Festival Plaza. When I host other ones, or other ones come up, hardly anyone appears. It seems as though the majority of people over Festival Plaza will ignore anything that isn't one of those two.
 
That 3rd point is kinda interesting, since having gym buildings is pretty much tied into this line of conversation (the empty plot). And going that far does bring up the point of why call them gym leaders at all if the only change is fighting the captain (and possibly weakening the totem, if they're combined with the captain and how that plays out) when the trials already seem to coexist with the league.

Well, maybe the player has to defeat the trial and totem before taking on the gym? Instead of the simple "oh there's an extra-convenient blockade in the way" trope we've had for a while, there could be an actual reason for us to not be able to challenge a certain Gym.

Why would they make a sequel where Alola gets the standard gym challenge? If they were going to do that (if it happens, surely it means it was always the plan, since the rumoured Stars was being developed, apparently alongside S&M), then why bother with the Trials thing, at all?

The whole deal with this game is "alola is differen than other regions, they have their own costumes, there is no gym challenge like the rest of the regions". If they just succumb to the other region's costume, this game loses its value altogether. If that was the plan, why make this game at all? They would just make 8 gyms in the game along side the trials and claim from the start that Alola has its costumes but it's adapting to the gym system from other regions.

They would bother with the trials thing because then they could set up something similar to the thing I mentioned in the previous reply. And like BlackButterfree said, there being the prefect amount of people for a league plus 8 empty plots makes it too strange to be a coincidence.

Well as far back as Lt. Surge's gym, gyms have more often than not had some type of "trial"-esque puzzle. This was especially prominent in Gen. 3 onwards.

These gyms could easily keep their Sun and Moon trial, then have the actual battle with the totem in their respective gym.

I mean, with the inclusion of Kahili, and the replacement of Nanu with Acerola, there are 12 people to make up the Alolan League (if Nanu for some reason or another decided to become a Gym Leader, despite turning down the Elite 4 position, and if Hapu is fine being a Gym Leader even though she should technically be an Elite 4). With important NPC's like Hau, Gladion and Lillie being so integral to the story, any one of them could become the PC's successor in their absence, leading to a full 13-member league.

GL's: Ilima, Lana, Kiawe, Mallow, Sophocles, Nanu (if he chooses), Mina, Hapu (if she chooses)
E4: Hala, Olivia, Acerola, Kahili
Champion: Hau/Gladion/Lillie/Professor Kukui (after all, he is a challenger and the one you defeat to become Champion)

There's no way they have the perfect amount of people for a League, have 8 random plots of land that are completely empty and correlate to 8 gyms, and then not introduce the league in a sequel. If Stars is real and is just a third version (which is always a parallel timeline rather than past or present), then obviously we won't see the league. But if it's a sequel, we'll definitely see a league.

Exactly what I'm trying to say. However, to me Ryuki also seems like just as prominent a figure to be a potential Gym Leader, seeing as he is a mystery character in Sun/Moon, and if he was to become a Gym Leader, he could head the dragon trial before you see him in his gym. If each gym is to be the same type as the gym leader, then Hapu and Nani are the odd ones out, but as Nanu would be taking over the trial of his niece, it would be logical. This leaves Hapu as an odd one out, seeing as it wouldn't make sense for a ground specialist to head a dragon trial, and let's Ryuki step in as a Gym Leader, this giving his character a purpose. Hapu could go on to be the champion like Iris, or just be an NPC you can talk to like Lenora and the Striaton brothers. It fits perfectly.

What's more, they might even remove one other trial&gym like in B2W2 when they removed some gyms for random purposes in favour of a bug one. Come on, it would make perfect character development for Ya Boi.
 

shadowF

Well-Known Member
I would rather have the protagonist of Pokemon Sun and Moon be the champion in a sequel if we ever get one. I can see the team being Incineroar,Decidueye,Primarina,Nihilego, Tapu Koko/Nebby and Sivally! The Three starters are obviously because they are the three Alolan starters, the protagonist could have gotten an egg from Kukui and Hau to raise the other two starters. Nihilego is in the team to acknowledged that the Ultra Beasts mission happened and a reminder of Lillie. Tapu Koko can be to acknowledge the last cut scene of the game where we battle Tapu Koko after we win the title but this can be replaced with Nebby since we do not necessarily have to capture Tapu Koko while we do have to capture Nebby. Last Sivally is to acknowledge our friendship with Gladion and bond that we had with him(It could also be shiny to differentiate it from Gladion's Sivally).

What do you guys think?
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
So I'm on Poni island now, and I gotta ask...what was the point of all that concept art of vehicles in the early trailers. Haven't really encountered much of that stuff, certainly no firetrucks employing Blastoise. Was that just some early idea they have dropped?

Also I hope in the sequel the fossil guy will actually have set up his Fossil Pokemon park.

I would rather have the protagonist of Pokemon Sun and Moon be the champion in a sequel if we ever get one. I can see the team being Incineroar,Decidueye,Primarina,Nihilego, Tapu Koko/Nebby and Sivally!

No I don't want that. If the point of the nameless/voiceless protagonist is that they are our avatar and its our story then I don't want the character to show up in the next game having a lame "Red 2.0" team.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
I would rather have the protagonist of Pokemon Sun and Moon be the champion in a sequel if we ever get one. I can see the team being Incineroar,Decidueye,Primarina,Nihilego, Tapu Koko/Nebby and Sivally! The Three starters are obviously because they are the three Alolan starters, the protagonist could have gotten an egg from Kukui and Hau to raise the other two starters. Nihilego is in the team to acknowledged that the Ultra Beasts mission happened and a reminder of Lillie. Tapu Koko can be to acknowledge the last cut scene of the game where we battle Tapu Koko after we win the title but this can be replaced with Nebby since we do not necessarily have to capture Tapu Koko while we do have to capture Nebby. Last Sivally is to acknowledge our friendship with Gladion and bond that we had with him(It could also be shiny to differentiate it from Gladion's Sivally).

What do you guys think?
I would imagine the team would be...

Decidueye
Incineroar
Primarina (all three starters, pretty self-explanatory)
Snorlax (because of the event) OR Lycanroc (kind of like the "fourth starter", or at least considered as such among fans)
Alola Exeggcutor (because of the scene with Lillie where you face one)
Solgaleo/Lunala (again, pretty self-explanatory)

However, I'd much rather prefer some sort of game link that just transfers our last Champion team.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
What's more, they might even remove one other trial&gym like in B2W2 when they removed some gyms for random purposes in favour of a bug one. Come on, it would make perfect character development for Ya Boi.

Well, from a story level the easies to remove would be Kiawe: he finds a way to raise enough money to study dancing abroad.
 

B. Thunder Tiger

Well-Known Member
So I'm on Poni island now, and I gotta ask...what was the point of all that concept art of vehicles in the early trailers. Haven't really encountered much of that stuff, certainly no firetrucks employing Blastoise. Was that just some early idea they have dropped?

That was likely a preview of HD assets for the Nintendo Switch exclusive Pokémon game codenamed Stars. At least that is what I think. I could be wrong.
 

shadowF

Well-Known Member
No I don't want that. If the point of the nameless/voiceless protagonist is that they are our avatar and its our story then I don't want the character to show up in the next game having a lame "Red 2.0" team.

But in the game we do get dialogue, sure they are set dialogue but we do get to speak in the games when we are asked questions. So the Protagonist could have dialogue similar to that. Also in Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 there was data for the protagonist of Black and White but in that one they had set dialogue so they were not silent. So in the end the protagonist would not be like "Red 2.0".
 
Well, from a story level the easies to remove would be Kiawe: he finds a way to raise enough money to study dancing abroad.

Nice idea! Some others I can think of are:
Ilima becoming a teacher at the school he graduated from
Lana too busy fishing
Mallow becoming a full-time cook
Sophocles choosing to invent more things instead of being a Gym Leader

The sixth, seventh and eighth gym leaders would be Nanu, Ryuki and Mina, who all have a reason to be a Gym Leader (Nanu taking Acerola's place, Ryuki and Mina both not getting much featuring in S/M). This game has a perfect layout for a gym system. Maybe instead of getting badges as rewards we get the Z-crystals? Or we get both Z-crystals and badges?

^^^ that B2W2 plan was likely scrapped for that reason, plus having the main protagonist would still feel like too much of a Red clone, despite them possibly talking. I think either Hapu, Lillie or Hau would make good champions, although I'm currently hoping most for Lillie.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Nice idea! Some others I can think of are:
Ilima becoming a teacher at the school he graduated from
Lana too busy fishing
Mallow becoming a full-time cook
Sophocles choosing to invent more things instead of being a Gym Leader

The sixth, seventh and eighth gym leaders would be Nanu, Ryuki and Mina, who all have a reason to be a Gym Leader (Nanu taking Acerola's place, Ryuki and Mina both not getting much featuring in S/M). This game has a perfect layout for a gym system. Maybe instead of getting badges as rewards we get the Z-crystals? Or we get both Z-crystals and badges?

Yeah there's lots of possibilities for characters to move on. I just specifically mention Kiawe because I felt kinda sorry for him not being able to follow his dream and all. Particularly in Alola being captain seems to be a transient thing you just do for a time and then move on to make room for others. Not sure if Kahuna is similar to that, but in some aspects it seems so. I'll admit I couldn't get quite make sense of Nanu's full character and motivations, but as I said I'm only at Poni, so maybe he'll show up again. Right now my best guess as to why he became and continues to be a Kahuna is that he doesn't trust anybody else to take up the responsibility.

I think we'd get both Badges and Z-Crystals.

But in the game we do get dialogue, sure they are set dialogue but we do get to speak in the games when we are asked questions. So the Protagonist could have dialogue similar to that. Also in Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 there was data for the protagonist of Black and White but in that one they had set dialogue so they were not silent. So in the end the protagonist would not be like "Red 2.0".

But we get to choose that dialogue, the protagonist of Sun/Moon has no predefined character so I'd rather not have GM mess with them and create a "canon" version, especially not with a lame name like "Sun" or "Helios". And yes a team consisting of the three starters + some generic "popular" Pokemon from that gen would be "Red 2.0". I already hated that when they did it in Gold/Silver.
The point is that I don't want them to basically take my character and turn them into someone who'd use Decidueye, Snorlax or Pikachu on their team. Also since protagonists now come as both boys and girls, which one are you using? Do you use the male one and invalidate the gaming experience of everybody who chose the girl or do you choose the girl and stick it to everybody who chose the boy? If you heap customization ontop of that....
Yeah I'd rather not have them do that.

So yeah, I'd rather have the Hapu, Lillie or Hau the champion, like McNerdface says. Those are actual characters in the game that can have a canon team. Though hopefully it's more creative than having the three starters.
 

goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
Nice idea! Some others I can think of are:
Ilima becoming a teacher at the school he graduated from
Lana too busy fishing
Mallow becoming a full-time cook
Sophocles choosing to invent more things instead of being a Gym Leader

The sixth, seventh and eighth gym leaders would be Nanu, Ryuki and Mina, who all have a reason to be a Gym Leader (Nanu taking Acerola's place, Ryuki and Mina both not getting much featuring in S/M). This game has a perfect layout for a gym system. Maybe instead of getting badges as rewards we get the Z-crystals? Or we get both Z-crystals and badges?

^^^ that B2W2 plan was likely scrapped for that reason, plus having the main protagonist would still feel like too much of a Red clone, despite them possibly talking. I think either Hapu, Lillie or Hau would make good champions, although I'm currently hoping most for Lillie.
This is more general talking but quoted for clarity.

While I do think this scenario (gyms, empty plots,ect) is quite plausible, it's hardly the only explanation for the plots and honestly this seems a bit too much like trying to get the pieces to fit. (Ryuki seems a prime target for this. Also Nanu as gym leader? Can't we just let the guy be a crazy cat guy and count his grand trial as having a dark gym leader? Though on Nanu I'm mostly joking) Not saying don't speculate but leaving options open and thinking a bit more out of the box is often a good thing. (For example the ancient trial on Poni I can easily see reamining seperate, and honestly adding Ryuki to it makes me a bit uncomfortable and the league so far managed to avoid that for me)

Also I was responding to Wulava on trials becoming the gyms in the post of mine you quoted. Not sure if at was a misquote but yeah I'm aware of the trials possibly being seperate.
 
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Tropios

':o Me is stinky??'
IF there will be a sequel with gyms, I would prefer the system where both gyms and trials work together. Trials moved inside gyms is just gyms with another name slapped on it honestly.

That was likely a preview of HD assets for the Nintendo Switch exclusive Pokémon game codenamed Stars. At least that is what I think. I could be wrong.

No they said in an interview it was just early stuff they ended up scrapping.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
I really wish they'd keep trials in future titles, I enjoy them much more than the same old gyms in each and every region.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
I really wish they'd keep trials in future titles, I enjoy them much more than the same old gyms in each and every region.

The whole point of trials was to shake things up with something new, so it would be kind of redundant to destroy a formula, just to stick with another one for several games to come.

They're better off creating a new thing for each title, something that fits it's own region. Trials are something that sounds a lot better on a Hawaiian-based region.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
No they said in an interview it was just early stuff they ended up scrapping.
Link?

I really wish they'd keep trials in future titles, I enjoy them much more than the same old gyms in each and every region.
I wouldn't mind that, but given that they're called Island Trials I doubt they'll appear in the future.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member

Here you go.

Some of the first trailers for the game shows concept art of vehicles. Are vehicles going to be an important part of the game? Are we going to see more vehicles in Pokémon Sun and Moon?

Shigeru Ohmori: This goes back to the conceptual stages. We really wanted to kind of re-examine or put the focus again on the relationship between humans and Pokémon and come up with a lot of different ideas about how they might interact with each other and the world. How they might, for example, work together or live together. So a lot of conceptual art pieces in the beginning stages showed maybe humans would be using vehicles and the Pokémon would be riding in them. As development went on, we kind of settled in terms of getting around in the game using the Pokémon ride feature, where you can ride on a variety of different Pokémon, so the focus really isn’t specifically on a lot of more vehicles then you would see in the past. I mean, there are some vehicles in the game that do appear.
 

Everlasting

Everything stays.
I really wish they'd keep trials in future titles, I enjoy them much more than the same old gyms in each and every region.

I would like them to blend in both trials and gym leaders.
As clbgolden12 mentioned, they will likely not reappear under the name "island trials". However, they can recycle the formula to make it even better:

What I loved about gym leaders is that they were multiple trainers scattered around the region and they were the nicest battles a regular player could get, besides rival battles and team boss/legendary battles. Regular trainers are not exciting enough, but gym leaders are.

Since there will likely not be any 'Island Leader" (Kahuna) in the next entries, they could give us 8 trials where the player has to do an original activity, then potentially defeat a powerful Pokémon (no longer called 'Totem', but rather something along the lines of 'Extraordinary Pokémon' or 'Unusually powerful Pokémon') and then face the gym leader (trial captain) in a battle, which would essentially be exactly like past gym leaders.

tldr; Gyms would no longer have 'strong trainers' within them: they would rather have a trial-ish activity and a totem Pokémon instead before the battle with the gym leader.

I really wish we had to battle the captains during their trials. Otherwise some trials were simply too quick or simple (thinking here of Kiawe's trial, for example).
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
The whole point of trials was to shake things up with something new, so it would be kind of redundant to destroy a formula, just to stick with another one for several games to come.

They're better off creating a new thing for each title, something that fits it's own region. Trials are something that sounds a lot better on a Hawaiian-based region.

What's the point of shaking up a formula only to return to it immediately afterwards? Not sure what's so "Hawaiian" about the concept of a "Trial, it's a pretty universal concept in the real world. I never said anything about "Island" Trials, in the next place they could be called Town Trials, Region Trials, Mountain Trials etc. etc. or just plain trials. I'm on board with something new alltogether, I just don't want Kanto-style gyms back.

Anyway this user pretty much explained what I had in mind:

I would like them to blend in both trials and gym leaders.
As clbgolden12 mentioned, they will likely not reappear under the name "island trials". However, they can recycle the formula to make it even better:

What I loved about gym leaders is that they were multiple trainers scattered around the region and they were the nicest battles a regular player could get, besides rival battles and team boss/legendary battles. Regular trainers are not exciting enough, but gym leaders are.

Since there will likely not be any 'Island Leader" (Kahuna) in the next entries, they could give us 8 trials where the player has to do an original activity, then potentially defeat a powerful Pokémon (no longer called 'Totem', but rather something along the lines of 'Extraordinary Pokémon' or 'Unusually powerful Pokémon') and then face the gym leader (trial captain) in a battle, which would essentially be exactly like past gym leaders.

tldr; Gyms would no longer have 'strong trainers' within them: they would rather have a trial-ish activity and a totem Pokémon instead before the battle with the gym leader.

I really wish we had to battle the captains during their trials. Otherwise some trials were simply too quick or simple (thinking here of Kiawe's trial, for example).

Imho the Trials did a better job as far as immersion goes and made the trial captains come more alive than the gym leaders ever were (I can, like, recall a single Kalos gym leader by name: Corinna and here I'm not sure if that is the correct name) and I'd find it regrettable if they'd throw that away again and return to "beat two trainers and then the gym leader"
 
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