Pokémon Sun and Moon - General Discussion Thread

[goodpeople25]

Most poketbubers at the moment are just trying to make a quick buck out of this, the number of bait videos with shoddy deviant art ripoffs on the right side of the screen and alarming title to the left with a very tiny question mark often obscured by the deviant ripoff is disturbing.

Take 2 shoots if the video is about eevee and kiss your liver goodbye.

I say don't even bother with those guys.

Yeah I think that describes the videos i tend to see pretty well, so yeah I think it's safe to say the Irrefutability of their information is a very very very (keeps going for the amount of said videos) minor concern of theirs.

 

[Endless]

We only just got irrefutable evidence of it though, it's not like it's their fault. Besides, there was plenty of other things to cover.

If you're referring to the Amazon description then it was actually updated at least by May 12th. But yeah, it went very lowkey for nearly a week, probably because it's from Amazon which isn't exactly an official source, it being kind of obvious that we would get more islands and that "islands" could technically refer to the tiny ones seen on the map(however dumb that would be).
People suddenly blowing it up now kind of surprises me, really.

 

[Niormon]

Most poketbubers at the moment are just trying to make a quick buck out of this, the number of bait videos with shoddy deviant art ripoffs on the right side of the screen and alarming title to the left with a very tiny question mark often obscured by the deviant ripoff is disturbing.

Take 2 shoots if the video is about eevee and kiss your liver goodbye.

I say don't even bother with those guys.

And that not even adding the drama they bring to their videos to be honest some of these Poke tubers are scumbags like GCPM ( his a real jerk on twitter )

 

[LePetitMeow]

Skipping Z would be much worse than skipping the Azure Flute though. The Azure Flute is just an event for catching Arceus, they easily found another way to give us Arceus and actually added a new event in HGSS that did more than the Azure Flute did. So that was no big deal. As far as Z goes though, do you really think if we're skipping Z we're going to get something greater than Z? Will they come up with some other way to take us back to Kalos, explore Zygarde's new forms and fix the other various loose ends left by XY? Unless SM pull a GSC probably not. And no, the anime is no stand in for the games. The anime is meant to be an alternate interpretation for the series' lore, not a substitute. Having us watch the anime to get the full story that we should've gotten in the games is lazy and reflects badly on the games.

If there's any reason to be optimistic though, it doesn't look like Z was somehow cancelled anyway, they seem to have planned SM from the very beginning. The Strange Souvenir seems to be hinting towards Alola and Zygarde's Complete form seems to relate to SM's mascots as well (you can see orange and another shade of blue in Complete's chest). Again though, the question is how they're delivering the "Z" content and whether or not we're returning to Kalos.

The thing about the relation of Zygarde to Solgaleo and Lunaala is that it is purely FAN SPECULATION. That is NOT confirmed information. Until GF and TPCi decide to reveal that information, it's hard to say for certain. They could very well be for Sun and Moon legends, but they could also be an aesthetic thing since the shades are just lightening (Dark blue to light blue to white, and red to orange to white). Also, Zygarde Complete also features predominant RED and BLUE colors in its body, associating it more closely to Xerneas and Yveltal, which while obvious since they are the KALOS Trio, it would have made sense to include the orange and light blue colors as well if Zygarde was supposed to be related to Solgaleo and Lunaala to a heavy degree (Although, in the moment thinking has me wondering about the shiny coloring... maybe the red and blue appendages will be orange and light blue in shiny form?).

Yeah, skipping Azure Flute and Z are two completely different scenarios, but also both relatable. They could very well have scrapped a Z project, and also very well given us the XY&Z anime, the Zygarde promos, and all the green focus JUST to throw off fans in anticipation for Sun and Moon.

The issue I personally take with this Zygarde business is that so many people, here and other forums/tumblr/youtube/etc. seem to believe whole-heartedly that a return to Kalos post-game is a necessity. It's not. It's just not. The reasoning behind these claims I've seen? If it wasn't part of the "Kalos felt unfinished because 'Southern Kalos'" party, then it's the "But ZYGARDE" party. Going back to a region we JUST finished not too long ago just for ONE legendary Pokemon does not make the most logic. In fact, I find it to make the least logic. The idea of another Zygarde being in Alola makes more sense than a return trip to Kalos to finish Zygarde and its forms.

I'm honestly just waiting for these games to come out so we can finally put it to rest. If they DO include the forms and stuff, then that's GREAT! FANTASTIC! People should just not be shocked and feeling cheated because Zygarde doesn't get its own post-game Kalos return trip of anything remotely plot/story related. They shouldn't hold hope out that Zygarde is somewhere on the islands waiting to be captured, and if things like the cells and cores aren't available. Same all goes for Ash-Greninja too.

 

[JohnDoe]

The issue I personally take with this Zygarde business is that so many people, here and other forums/tumblr/youtube/etc. seem to believe whole-heartedly that a return to Kalos post-game is a necessity. It's not. It's just not. The reasoning behind these claims I've seen? If it wasn't part of the "Kalos felt unfinished because 'Southern Kalos'" party, then it's the "But ZYGARDE" party. Going back to a region we JUST finished not too long ago just for ONE legendary Pokemon does not make the most logic. In fact, I find it to make the least logic. The idea of another Zygarde being in Alola makes more sense than a return trip to Kalos to finish Zygarde and its forms.

I'm honestly just waiting for these games to come out so we can finally put it to rest. If they DO include the forms and stuff, then that's GREAT! FANTASTIC! People should just not be shocked and feeling cheated because Zygarde doesn't get its own post-game Kalos return trip of anything remotely plot/story related. They shouldn't hold hope out that Zygarde is somewhere on the islands waiting to be captured, and if things like the cells and cores aren't available. Same all goes for Ash-Greninja too.

Yes, thank you! There's no need for a Zygard post game, sure would be welcome though.

Obviously the anime is a separate entity and that doesn't mean that what's in the anime has to be in the games. As for the secret Zygard moves you shouldn't even know about them since data mining is like cheating to get everything unlocked (or at least..you know what I mean). It would make sense for Zygard to have these moves explained but other than our knowledge of it due to data mining these moves don't really exist, right now Zygard is just a legend that sits there and that's all it going to be until GF makes more out of it. Don't go thinking that they have to explain things like it's perfect form (cause that's anime and not related to the main games) and its secret moves (which technically you shouldn't know about anyway).

It is wasted potential right now but GF may make more if it later. Who knows. But right now we've got a new gen with new Pokemon, legends and story, think about that for now and let go of the past generation.

 

[Crazedyanma]

If we end up with no equivalent to Z, especially if the reason why is because Game Freak wants to move away from third versions, then that's going to be a major disaster. Third versions/sequels tend to be more polished experiences with more content, if Game Freak decides to leave Kalos without one it shows they don't care about quality and that's going to make them look bad. If XY is the new normal for this series then a lot of fans are going to leave this series.

We need not despair about Pokemon Z. I am confident it will arrive when the right time comes (after Sinnoh and Unova remakes).

 

[clbgolden12]

The thing about the relation of Zygarde to Solgaleo and Lunaala is that it is purely FAN SPECULATION. That is NOT confirmed information. Until GF and TPCi decide to reveal that information, it's hard to say for certain. They could very well be for Sun and Moon legends, but they could also be an aesthetic thing since the shades are just lightening (Dark blue to light blue to white, and red to orange to white). Also, Zygarde Complete also features predominant RED and BLUE colors in its body, associating it more closely to Xerneas and Yveltal, which while obvious since they are the KALOS Trio, it would have made sense to include the orange and light blue colors as well if Zygarde was supposed to be related to Solgaleo and Lunaala to a heavy degree (Although, in the moment thinking has me wondering about the shiny coloring... maybe the red and blue appendages will be orange and light blue in shiny form?).

Yeah, skipping Azure Flute and Z are two completely different scenarios, but also both relatable. They could very well have scrapped a Z project, and also very well given us the XY&Z anime, the Zygarde promos, and all the green focus JUST to throw off fans in anticipation for Sun and Moon.

The issue I personally take with this Zygarde business is that so many people, here and other forums/tumblr/youtube/etc. seem to believe whole-heartedly that a return to Kalos post-game is a necessity. It's not. It's just not. The reasoning behind these claims I've seen? If it wasn't part of the "Kalos felt unfinished because 'Southern Kalos'" party, then it's the "But ZYGARDE" party. Going back to a region we JUST finished not too long ago just for ONE legendary Pokemon does not make the most logic. In fact, I find it to make the least logic. The idea of another Zygarde being in Alola makes more sense than a return trip to Kalos to finish Zygarde and its forms.

I'm honestly just waiting for these games to come out so we can finally put it to rest. If they DO include the forms and stuff, then that's GREAT! FANTASTIC! People should just not be shocked and feeling cheated because Zygarde doesn't get its own post-game Kalos return trip of anything remotely plot/story related. They shouldn't hold hope out that Zygarde is somewhere on the islands waiting to be captured, and if things like the cells and cores aren't available. Same all goes for Ash-Greninja too.

I don't see why the orange and purple are there for aesthetic reasons. The design would look fine with just the red, white, and blue. The reason why it primarily features red and blue may be because it's the only Complete Zygarde we've seen so far is the using red and/or blue core.

Yes, thank you! There's no need for a Zygard post game, sure would be welcome though.

Obviously the anime is a separate entity and that doesn't mean that what's in the anime has to be in the games. As for the secret Zygard moves you shouldn't even know about them since data mining is like cheating to get everything unlocked (or at least..you know what I mean). It would make sense for Zygard to have these moves explained but other than our knowledge of it due to data mining these moves don't really exist, right now Zygard is just a legend that sits there and that's all it going to be until GF makes more out of it. Don't go thinking that they have to explain things like it's perfect form (cause that's anime and not related to the main games) and its secret moves (which technically you shouldn't know about anyway).

It is wasted potential right now but GF may make more if it later. Who knows. But right now we've got a new gen with new Pokemon, legends and story, think about that for now and let go of the past generation.

Well, the anime's purpose is to promote the games. And even then, Zygarde's forms have appeared in more than just the show. Even that Japanese arcade game that only like five people knew about.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Yeah, skipping Azure Flute and Z are two completely different scenarios, but also both relatable. They could very well have scrapped a Z project, and also very well given us the XY&Z anime, the Zygarde promos, and all the green focus JUST to throw off fans in anticipation for Sun and Moon.

Again, the timing doesn't match up with that. They've been thinking about 7th gen since 2013, and probably developing it in since then. They included the Strange Souvenir hinting towards a new region in XY. If they were working on Z and cancelled it, we wouldn't be hearing about a completely new generation in a new region this quickly.

The issue I personally take with this Zygarde business is that so many people, here and other forums/tumblr/youtube/etc. seem to believe whole-heartedly that a return to Kalos post-game is a necessity. It's not. It's just not. The reasoning behind these claims I've seen? If it wasn't part of the "Kalos felt unfinished because 'Southern Kalos'" party, then it's the "But ZYGARDE" party. Going back to a region we JUST finished not too long ago just for ONE legendary Pokemon does not make the most logic. In fact, I find it to make the least logic. The idea of another Zygarde being in Alola makes more sense than a return trip to Kalos to finish Zygarde and its forms.

Then you're missing the point of a region revisit. It's not just to get a new legendary Pokemon. It's to have a more fleshed out experience of the region. New features that add extra content to the game. New areas that extend the length of the game. Extra lore in the storyline that connects the dots in the plot. Region revisits simply provide meatier experiences than the initial versions. And Kalos especially is in need of this sort of experience because XY was pretty much the opposite of this, it was so barren that it doesn't really feel like a complete game. It'd be a massive injustice if Kalos is left as it was in XY with no "Z" like upgrade.

I'm honestly just waiting for these games to come out so we can finally put it to rest. If they DO include the forms and stuff, then that's GREAT! FANTASTIC! People should just not be shocked and feeling cheated because Zygarde doesn't get its own post-game Kalos return trip of anything remotely plot/story related. They shouldn't hold hope out that Zygarde is somewhere on the islands waiting to be captured, and if things like the cells and cores aren't available. Same all goes for Ash-Greninja too.

We are being cheated if Zygarde doesn't get its own game, plain and simple. Its past gen counterparts all got games, so not giving Zygarde that same focus isn't really fair.

 

[Bguy7]

We are being cheated if Zygarde doesn't get its own game, plain and simple. Its past gen counterparts all got games, so not giving Zygarde that same focus isn't really fair.

I don't like basing arguments off of fairness my self. The way I see it is that Zygarde was designed for a very specific purpose, and it seems incredibly unlikely that Zygarde Core, 10%, and Complete were nothing but the anime's take on Zygarde, meaning they had to have been made for a game. If these concepts made for a game, are not put in a game, then it is skipped opportunity that should have been utilized, and that is the injustice.

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

Not sure how they can tie up loose ends relating to Zygarde without "shoehorning" Kalos alongside Alola however.

They could probably tie Kalos' and Alola's myths together somehow like they did with Johto's and Sinnoh's in HGSS via the Sinjoh Ruins and have Zygarde be relevant that way.

 

[LePetitMeow]

Again, the timing doesn't match up with that. They've been thinking about 7th gen since 2013, and probably developing it in since then. They included the Strange Souvenir hinting towards a new region in XY. If they were working on Z and cancelled it, we wouldn't be hearing about a completely new generation in a new region this quickly.

They've been planning generations in advance for years, that much is true. While it is most likely that Z was never a plan, that still leaves speculation open as to the reasoning for no Z Version. You can choose to believe that all the Zygarde stuff is going to be in Sun and Moon and get a Kalos revisit, but I personally believe that it was all a distraction and a device used to lengthen the time between launch of Sun and Moon from ORAS. Perhaps there were graphic issues they dealt with and thus needed something to prolong programming and development. We do NOT know what the behind the scenes thinking was like for Zygarde's forms. They very well may be included in the main games (and most likely will, I'm not denying that), but them getting their own story, their own highlight, and their own special promotion in a completely new region that's already got a lot going on just doesn't make sense.

Then you're missing the point of a region revisit. It's not just to get a new legendary Pokemon. It's to have a more fleshed out experience of the region. New features that add extra content to the game. New areas that extend the length of the game. Extra lore in the storyline that connects the dots in the plot. Region revisits simply provide meatier experiences than the initial versions. And Kalos especially is in need of this sort of experience because XY was pretty much the opposite of this, it was so barren that it doesn't really feel like a complete game. It'd be a massive injustice if Kalos is left as it was in XY with no "Z" like upgrade.

I understand fully what the point of a region revisit is. That's what we got Kanto in GSC/HGSS for. No other region has been given a "revisit". There's no saying we HAVE to go back to Kalos for the reasons you mentioned because they've actually never been done. There were not "fleshed out" experiences in Kanto that we honestly didn't have access to prior in RBY/FRLG. Everything was almost the same minus the gym leaders really.

We are being cheated if Zygarde doesn't get its own game, plain and simple. Its past gen counterparts all got games, so not giving Zygarde that same focus isn't really fair.

Game Freak has made it clear, as has many fans, that there is no such thing as a pattern. Just because Rayquaza got Emerald and Giratina got Platinum doesn't mean Zygarde automatically gets its own game. Remember that Kyurem actually got TWO games, but still shared spotlight with the respective dragons. There's no established formula they HAVE to follow, so no, you aren't being cheated. That's their plan and they can do what they want/will with it.

 

[Reshiram44]

I really can not wait until people stop talking about Zygarde. Ever since Sun and Moon were revealed I have been listening to my cousins and people on forums bicker over whether Zygarde is getting his own game or if he's going to be in Sun and Moon. Hopefully these games address this issue so I don't have to hear about this Pokémon anymore.

 

[LePetitMeow]

I really can not wait until people stop talking about Zygarde. Ever since Sun and Moon were revealed I have been listening to my cousins and people on forums bicker over whether Zygarde is getting his own game or if he's going to be in Sun and Moon. Hopefully these games address this issue so I don't have to hear about this Pokémon anymore.

Amen. Not even that great of a legendary really...

But as for these games, I do hope that handle the legendaries well. I would love something similar to HeartGold/SoulSilver, where the mascot legend takes center stage for the climax, but the other legendary is available post-game.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I understand fully what the point of a region revisit is. That's what we got Kanto in GSC/HGSS for. No other region has been given a "revisit". There's no saying we HAVE to go back to Kalos for the reasons you mentioned because they've actually never been done. There were not "fleshed out" experiences in Kanto that we honestly didn't have access to prior in RBY/FRLG. Everything was almost the same minus the gym leaders really.

Note that I'm using the word "revisit" to encompass any game released after the initial versions. So that includes third versions, remakes, and sequels. And in that group, there's far better examples than GSC Kanto. Platinum and BW2 are much better examples of how a region can really be improved in a later game (BW2 especially). Tons of new features added to the game, major enhancements to the storyline, new areas, new Pokemon added to the regional dex. There's significant improvements in many aspects of the games.

Game Freak has made it clear, as has many fans, that there is no such thing as a pattern. Just because Rayquaza got Emerald and Giratina got Platinum doesn't mean Zygarde automatically gets its own game. Remember that Kyurem actually got TWO games, but still shared spotlight with the respective dragons. There's no established formula they HAVE to follow, so no, you aren't being cheated. That's their plan and they can do what they want/will with it.

Game Freak really needs to get over this obsession with constantly surprising people. Surprises are great when they're constructive, when they do new things that we never thought possible that only serves to further the series. And BW2 is a great example of that, they exceeded our expectations by giving us a completely new game set in the same region instead of just a rehash of BW with Kyurem added. Skipping a Kalos revisit on the other hand, would be a destructive surprise, it's taking away something that we've become accustomed to which decreases the quality of the games. The issue isn't simply that Zygarde wouldn't be getting the same treatment, it's that it would be getting LESSER treatment than the other mascots. That's why they would be cheating us.

 

[Bguy7]

They've been planning generations in advance for years, that much is true. While it is most likely that Z was never a plan, that still leaves speculation open as to the reasoning for no Z Version.

I pose a question to you then. If Z Version or some equivalent was absolutely never planed, then why do we Thousand Wave and Thousand Arrows in X and Y's programming? The best explanation is that Z Version or some equivalent was planned early on and not cancelled until relatively later into X and Y's development, after the moves were already programmed in. The game still would have been cancelled before the release of X and Y, and this would still give Game Freak several years to plan ahead to Sun and Moon.

Game Freak has made it clear, as has many fans, that there is no such thing as a pattern. Just because Rayquaza got Emerald and Giratina got Platinum doesn't mean Zygarde automatically gets its own game. Remember that Kyurem actually got TWO games, but still shared spotlight with the respective dragons. There's no established formula they HAVE to follow, so no, you aren't being cheated. That's their plan and they can do what they want/will with it.

I agree that fairness and patterns isn't the best way top judge everything, but that's not the reason I'm convinced Zygarde will appear. I'm going to repost what I just said about this:

I don't like basing arguments off of fairness my self. The way I see it is that Zygarde was designed for a very specific purpose, and it seems incredibly unlikely that Zygarde Core, 10%, and Complete were nothing but the anime's take on Zygarde, meaning they had to have been made for a game. If these concepts made for a game, are not put in a game, then it is skipped opportunity that should have been utilized, and that is the injustice.

Amen. Not even that great of a legendary really...

Hey, Zygarde happens to be one of my favorite Pokemon, thank you very much.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

On the whole Z debacle, it might be important to mention that neither Claw/Root Fossils or Jaw/Sail fossils can be obtained in multiple forms in their respective games, though Claw/Root can be obtained in multitudes in XY.

So, this is the only modern generation to not have a game where you cannot obtain the opposite fossil.

 

[Alexander18]

Zygarde could always be in a post game. As for fossils, I think there might be an area where we get fossils from and we could get more of the Kalos fossils.

 

[LePetitMeow]

Note that I'm using the word "revisit" to encompass any game released after the initial versions. So that includes third versions, remakes, and sequels. And in that group, there's far better examples than GSC Kanto. Platinum and BW2 are much better examples of how a region can really be improved in a later game (BW2 especially). Tons of new features added to the game, major enhancements to the storyline, new areas, new Pokemon added to the regional dex. There's significant improvements in many aspects of the games.

Then you need to clarify your definition of a "revisit" because in the case you make for Sun and Moon, a revisit to Kalos is only relatable to that of the return to Kanto in GSC/HGSS, not a remake nor a sequel. Yes, sequels and remakes update storylines and plots and the regions themselves, that is their purpose. Revisiting Kalos in Sun and Moon after playing through Alola isn't reasonable to expect. We JUST finished Kalos in the previous generation, so going back already is just strange to me.

Game Freak really needs to get over this obsession with constantly surprising people. Surprises are great when they're constructive, when they do new things that we never thought possible that only serves to further the series. And BW2 is a great example of that, they exceeded our expectations by giving us a completely new game set in the same region instead of just a rehash of BW with Kyurem added. Skipping a Kalos revisit on the other hand, would be a destructive surprise, it's taking away something that we've become accustomed to which decreases the quality of the games. The issue isn't simply that Zygarde wouldn't be getting the same treatment, it's that it would be getting LESSER treatment than the other mascots. That's why they would be cheating us.

That's completely subjective to say the quality of the games is automatically decreased because they don't feed your Zygarde needs in the main games. Kalos as a whole, and by this I mean the generation of Pokemon themselves, were undertreated than every other generation all for the sake of Mega Evolution. Kalos Pokemon were shafted in attention and quantity to favor old Pokemon who got new Mega Evolutions. This is probably why Zygarde got shafted too. And again, subjective to say you'd be getting cheated. If we don't get Zygarde conclusions in Sun and Moon, I'd be absolutely fine with it. It wouldn't bother me to INCLUDE Zygarde in some way, but then that takes away from these new legendaries and new Pokemon.

I pose a question to you then. If Z Version or some equivalent was absolutely never planed, then why do we Thousand Wave and Thousand Arrows in X and Y's programming? The best explanation is that Z Version or some equivalent was planned early on and not cancelled until relatively later into X and Y's development, after the moves were already programmed in. The game still would have been cancelled before the release of X and Y, and this would still give Game Freak several years to plan ahead to Sun and Moon.

Well there's the rub; I actually AM one of the people that believe that Z WAS in development before being scrapped. I honestly am. Idk if it'll ever be proven, and I know it's an idea that gets torn down because of the strange souvenir and the hinting at a faraway region (alluding to Sun and Moon), but I do think that Z was an idea, but that during development, the implementation of the Zygarde cells and forms and mechanics were probably too confusing to work into the main storyline of the game and thus scrapped. However, the team probably kept the forms and lore and designs and implemented them into the anime in order to prolong the finishing of the XY saga to finish development of Sun and Moon. I REALLY do believe that to be the case. Again, most likely not the case, but marketing and advertising of all the "Z" stuff really points to Z BEING a plan, but never followed through. The secret moves, as someone mentioned, we were NOT supposed to know of their existence. Same with AZ's Floette. They could have been part of a Z plan or even just event plans for a download, but again scrapped due to development of Sun and Moon. You have the right idea on the way they handled the cancellation.

Hey, Zygarde happens to be one of my favorite Pokemon, thank you very much.

Oops... Zygarde is awesome... he he he...

 

[Bolt the Cat]

On the whole Z debacle, it might be important to mention that neither Claw/Root Fossils or Jaw/Sail fossils can be obtained in multiple forms in their respective games, though Claw/Root can be obtained in multitudes in XY.

So, this is the only modern generation to not have a game where you cannot obtain the opposite fossil.

Not sure what you mean here. 6th gen doesn't really deviate from the normal pattern for fossils that much, you get a choice of one of the regional fossil and then the past gen fossils can be obtained infinitely. The only thing unusual is that the past gen fossils are grouped differently in XY (instead of having one 1st gen fossil and one 3rd gen fossil in each version, both 1st gen fossils are Y exclusive and both 3rd gen fossils are X exclusive), other than that 6th gen handled fossils the same as they usually do.

Then you need to clarify your definition of a "revisit" because in the case you make for Sun and Moon, a revisit to Kalos is only relatable to that of the return to Kanto in GSC/HGSS, not a remake nor a sequel. Yes, sequels and remakes update storylines and plots and the regions themselves, that is their purpose. Revisiting Kalos in Sun and Moon after playing through Alola isn't reasonable to expect. We JUST finished Kalos in the previous generation, so going back already is just strange to me.

Going back already? If there's anything strange, it's that we haven't gone back before moving on to 7th gen, as that was the existing pattern. Going back now wouldn't feel too soon, it would feel too late.

That's completely subjective to say the quality of the games is automatically decreased because they don't feed your Zygarde needs in the main games. Kalos as a whole, and by this I mean the generation of Pokemon themselves, were undertreated than every other generation all for the sake of Mega Evolution. Kalos Pokemon were shafted in attention and quantity to favor old Pokemon who got new Mega Evolutions. This is probably why Zygarde got shafted too. And again, subjective to say you'd be getting cheated. If we don't get Zygarde conclusions in Sun and Moon, I'd be absolutely fine with it. It wouldn't bother me to INCLUDE Zygarde in some way, but then that takes away from these new legendaries and new Pokemon.

No it's not subjective. Just because you don't care about it doesn't mean it doesn't add more to the game, you can't argue that two forms aren't better than one.

 

[Bguy7]

Well there's the rub; I actually AM one of the people that believe that Z WAS in development before being scrapped. I honestly am. Idk if it'll ever be proven, and I know it's an idea that gets torn down because of the strange souvenir and the hinting at a faraway region (alluding to Sun and Moon), but I do think that Z was an idea, but that during development, the implementation of the Zygarde cells and forms and mechanics were probably too confusing to work into the main storyline of the game and thus scrapped. However, the team probably kept the forms and lore and designs and implemented them into the anime in order to prolong the finishing of the XY saga to finish development of Sun and Moon. I REALLY do believe that to be the case. Again, most likely not the case, but marketing and advertising of all the "Z" stuff really points to Z BEING a plan, but never followed through. The secret moves, as someone mentioned, we were NOT supposed to know of their existence. Same with AZ's Floette. They could have been part of a Z plan or even just event plans for a download, but again scrapped due to development of Sun and Moon. You have the right idea on the way they handled the cancellation.

Didn't realize you thought that by what you were saying. I mean it is a possibility that it worked out that way. But I really don't think Zygarde's forms would have been too hard to work into the game. The simplest way would be to have some sort of Key Item that allows you to collect Cells and pick them up around the region like items. As you get enough of them you can change your Zygarde Core into different forms. Doesn't seem that hard to me. I just can't see Zygarde not getting its forms in game. I could see something like Ash-Greninja being ignored, but Zygarde just seems far too important to remain anime-exclusive, especially if we can agree that there was a plan for Z Version, which means there at least at one point in time was a plan to put it in the games.