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Pokémon Sun & Moon Discovery Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

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PokeAJ

Well-Known Member
Going over the dex I am kind of bummed we only have 4 lines with 3 stages this gen excluding the starters. I feel like cutiefly, salandit, wimpod, and ironically enough Komala and Pyukumuku were all asking for 3 stage lines. And we just have way too many standalones for such a small dex. A whopping 14 out of like 70 (excluding legends)! That's like the same number as in gen 1 when the dex was over twice as big. Sorry, but that just seems like they either ran out of time or were deliberately trying to keep the new number as low as possible which is annoying. Stand alones just aren't as fun to train in general and it's particularly annoying when the likes of Komala, Drampa, Pyukumuku, Turtonator, Passimian, and Oranguru were all screaming either prevo or evo (and you could even make a good case for a Comfey prevo and Minior evo). I hope this trend of stand alones and 2 evo lines making up the bulk of the new ones doesn't continue past this gen. 3 evo lines are always the best and most fun to have on a team imo.
 
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R_N

Well-Known Member
Going over the dex I am kind of bummed we only have 4 lines with 3 stages this gen excluding the starters. I feel like cutiefly, salandit, wimpod, and ironically enough Komala and Pyukumuku were all asking for 3 stage lines. And we just have way too many standalones for such a small dex. A whopping 14 out of like 70 (excluding legends)! That's like the same number as in gen 1 when the dex was over twice as big. Sorry, but that just seems like they either ran out of time or were deliberately trying to keep the new number as low as possible which is annoying. Stand alones just aren't as fun to train in general and it's particularly annoying when the likes of Komala, Drampa, Pyukumuku, Turtonator, Passimian, and Oranguru were all screaming either prevo or evo. I hope this trend of stand alones and 2 evo lines making up the bulk of the new ones doesn't continue past this gen. 3 evo lines are always the best and most fun to have on a team imo.

If the dex continued being this small, it would honestly feel a lot smaller if there were more 3 staged lines

If they insist on these small dexes, they should probably stick to few 3 stage, some 2 stages and several single stages for variety's sake
 

Sheyenne Thunderstorm

Thunder Trainer
Especially since Alola is already FULL of Kanto pokemon... if they add a second region they should add a region with few Pokemon in Alola.

How much that I love Kanto and first gen. I hope they don't add Kanto or another region into this game. Also, they already have some character from other region in alola
 

PokeAJ

Well-Known Member
If the dex continued being this small, it would honestly feel a lot smaller if there were more 3 staged lines

If they insist on these small dexes, they should probably stick to few 3 stage, some 2 stages and several single stages for variety's sake

But why waste the potential of great new designs that clearly call for an evo (or prevo to a lesser extent)? That's just dumb. Who cares if we have a big dex again if the creativity and ideas are there? If the game need a few more months in development so the dex can be fully realized, I doubt anyone would have a problem with that either. It kinda makes me hate the ultra beasts since I feel they're the reason the ones I mentioned got screwed. The number of them pretty much lines up with the number of ones I feel got robbed of an evo.
 
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Sheyenne Thunderstorm

Thunder Trainer
But why waste the potential of great new designs that clearly call for an evo (or prevo to a lesser extent)? That's just dumb. Who cares if we have a big dex again if the creativity and ideas are there? If the game need a few more months in development so the dex can be fully realized, I doubt anyone would have a problem with that either. It kinda makes me hate the ultra beasts since I feel they're the reason the ones I mentioned got screwed. The number of them pretty much lines up with the number of ones I feel got robbed of an evo.

To be fair, this are 3D models and not 2D pixels. I believe they have pokemon already made up for future games. But they want to make them seem alive with 3ds models. I don't think they are being lazy.
 

R_N

Well-Known Member
But why waste the potential of great new designs that clearly call for an evo (or prevo to a lesser extent)? That's just dumb. Who cares if we have a big dex again if the creativity and ideas are there? If the game need a few more months in development so the dex can be fully realized, I doubt anyone would have a problem with that either. It kinda makes me hate the ultra beasts since I feel they're the reason the ones I mentioned got screwed. The number of them pretty much lines up with the number of ones I feel got robbed of an evo.

On the other hand, why waste the potential of great new designs on new iterations for evolutionary lines? 2 koalas would be cool, but i think a koala & a sea cucumber is too.
 

Everlasting

Everything stays.
I feel like a lot of people don't really appreciate the work and effort that was put into animating and designing each and every single new Pokémon that constitutes this Alolan Pokédex. Over 80 new creatures to animate (Pokémon and UBs alike) and a dozen new forms that have to be created from scratch is not easy. The fact that we got a whole bunch of interesting/original/crazy new Pokémon as well as a full line of creatures we don't even know much about yet is even more impressive.

Sometimes, you have to accept that trades must be made. Yes, the amount of new Pokémon is smaller, but we got so many more things we can enjoy: the update of Pokémon-Amie (Pokémon Refresh), HMs being replaced by fully controllable Pokémon in the overworld, the expanded Pokédex functionalities as well as its added personality, the ability to take pictures in some distinct places of the region, the most likely increased Pokémon trainer customization and the possibility to dye white clothings, an entirely new way to battle, a ton of new creative abilities, Z-moves and more!
 

PokeAJ

Well-Known Member
I feel like a lot of people don't really appreciate the work and effort that was put into animating and designing each and every single new Pokémon that constitutes this Alolan Pokédex. Over 80 new creatures to animate (Pokémon and UBs alike) and a dozen new forms that have to be created from scratch is not easy. The fact that we got a whole bunch of interesting/original/crazy new Pokémon as well as a full line of creatures we don't even know much about yet is even more impressive.

Sometimes, you have to accept that trades must be made. Yes, the amount of new Pokémon is smaller, but we got so many more things we can enjoy: the update of Pokémon-Amie (Pokémon Refresh), HMs being replaced by fully controllable Pokémon in the overworld, the expanded Pokédex functionalities as well as its added personality, the ability to take pictures in some distinct places of the region, the most likely increased Pokémon trainer customization and the possibility to dye white clothings, an entirely new way to battle, a ton of new creative abilities, Z-moves and more!

Yes, I do think all the new additions and changes in terms of the game itself is the reason some of the new pokemon got snubbed out of evos and prevos it seems like they should have had. So I'm willing to give them a bit of a pass because of that, but still I feel like it wouldn't have added that much time to the development if they could have just fixed the fatal flaws in the dex (a Komala, Pyukumuku, and Rimbombee evo at least and either a prevo or evo for Turtonator). The rest I could have been ok with as they are, those 4 are clear to me though that they aren't fully realized for whatever reason (time I'm sure)
 
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Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
I finally want to know the Toucan's and the Crown-of-Thorns typings ;_;

To be fair, this are 3D models and not 2D pixels. I believe they have pokemon already made up for future games. But they want to make them seem alive with 3ds models. I don't think they are being lazy.

Of course they aren't lazy. Creating and animating 3D models (especially ones that are as high quality as the ones in Pokemon games) is infinitely harder than just creating some pixel sprites (even animated ones). And the way games are produced it isn't just a matter to postpone a title to animate a few more models; especially with a high calibre title like Pokemon all parts of a development team have to work at top efficiency and on a schedule. You can't just give the animation team a few extra month while the programmers and stuff sit around and twiddle their thumbs.

Yes, I do think all the new additions and changes in terms of the game itself is the reason some of the new pokemon got snubbed out of evos and prevos it seems like they should have had. So I'm willing to give them a bit of a pass because of that, but still I feel like it wouldn't have added that much time to the development if they could have just fixed the fatal flaws in the dex (a Komala, Pyukumuku, and Rimbombee evo at least and either a prevo or evo for Turtonator). The rest I could have been ok with as they are.

But it isn't that easy, as I wrote above you can't just give one team more time while all the others have nothing to do and then have to come back to implement the new models. And you can't just postpone a title like Pokemon for things like that; shareholders don't like that.

Modern games aren't like the 90s anymore where a handful of programmers code the game and then one guy draws sprites that barely resemble the concept art. Stuff like Mew wouldn't simply be possible these days.
 
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JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
Yes, I do think all the new additions and changes in terms of the game itself is the reason some of the new pokemon got snubbed out of evos and prevos it seems like they should have had. So I'm willing to give them a bit of a pass because of that, but still I feel like it wouldn't have added that much time to the development if they could have just fixed the fatal flaws in the dex (a Komala, Pyukumuku, and Rimbombee evo at least and either a prevo or evo for Turtonator). The rest I could have been ok with as they are.

You say that they should have gotten Evos (and I somewhat agree on the Ribombee front), but that's just your opinion. And while its not that your opinion doesn't matter, it is the case that GF makes the decisions here, and they saw fit to make Komala and Pyukumuku standalones. If they had wanted to give them Evos, they would have.

Besides, both Komala and Pyukumuku have excellent Abilities which may have been unbalanced if placed on evolved forms that were noticeably stronger.
 

Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how much I buy into the "smaller dex number because it's less work" thing... I could see that being why they'd shy away from another Unova, but I think the lower amount of new Pokemon comes from them not wanting to inflate the dex. It's rapidly growing in size, and the emphasis they've been putting on reinventing older Pokemon with megas and forms makes me think they want it to stay a manageable number.

Smaller dex counts don't really bother me (XY has some of my favourite designs despite the tiny number), but I kind of wish they would go with a slightly bigger number, because the type imbalances and abundance of stand-alones are kind of annoying. I still find Komala and Pyukumuku not evolving totally bizarre.


I finally want to know the Toucan's and the Crown-of-Thorns typings ;_;
I can't really see anything but Normal/Flying for the Toucan, sadlly. The other think strikes me as Water/Poison.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how much I buy into the "smaller dex number because it's less work" thing... I could see that being why they'd shy away from another Unova, but I think the lower amount of new Pokemon comes from them not wanting to inflate the dex. It's rapidly growing in size, and the emphasis they've been putting on reinventing older Pokemon with megas and forms makes me think they want it to stay a manageable number.

Smaller dex counts don't really bother me (XY has some of my favourite designs despite the tiny number), but I kind of wish they would go with a slightly bigger number, because the type imbalances and abundance of stand-alones are kind of annoying. I still find Komala and Pyukumuku not evolving totally bizarre.

I can't really see anything but Normal/Flying for the Toucan, sadlly. The other think strikes me as Water/Poison.

I wouldn't even care if the Toucan was Normal/Flying, it'd be the first Normal/Flying bird I genuinely like.

And see, I don't buy into the "too many Pokemon" reasoning, because for each person who thinks that you get one person who disagrees and really in 10 years time, would it really matter if there's 1200 Pokemon or 1000 plus 100 Mega Evos and 100 Regional Forms? Seems Tomato, Tomahto too me.

But whatever reason, this is the amount of pokemon we get this gen.
 

R_N

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't even care if the Toucan was Normal/Flying, it'd be the first Normal/Flying bird I genuinely like.

And see, I don't buy into the "too many Pokemon" reasoning, because for each person who thinks that you get one person who disagrees and really in 10 years time, would it really matter if there's 1200 Pokemon or 1000 plus 100 Mega Evos and 100 Regional Forms? Seems Tomato, Tomahto too me.

But whatever reason, this is the amount of pokemon we get this gen.

I don't necessarily think that's the reason either, but getting to that point after 10 years is different than say 5 years. And regardless it can't really be ignored how smaller gens started happening alongside mega evolutions & regional forms.

I still say its budgeting reasons, but we'll probably never know. I get the feeling the majority of people who buy the game don't care (and, honestly, don't notice) and questions like this almost never get asked in interviews.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
I don't necessarily think that's the reason either, but getting to that point after 10 years is different than say 5 years. And regardless it can't really be ignored how smaller gens started happening alongside mega evolutions & regional forms.

I still say its budgeting reasons, but we'll probably never know. I get the feeling the majority of people who buy the game don't care (and, honestly, don't notice) and questions like this almost never get asked in interviews.

Personally I could theroize that Mega-Evos were cooked up as a alternative way to revitalize older Pokemon rather than giving them evolutions for the sake of evolution (which led to some of the less inspired, and less well received Pokemon in Gen 4)
Regional Forms, I think have again more to do with the 3D models; it's easier to tweak and re-skin an existing model then to create a completely new one. I bet it's no coincidence that those cropped up after the sqwitch to 3D rather than during the 2D days.

But yeah, we'll never get a definitive answer. There would be no way for Gamefreak to answer without pissing somebody off.

But I agree, it's budget and schedule reasons.

If we wanna go into complete WMG territory we could even theorize that the Unova dex was so huge because they knew it would be the last time they would be able to implement a large number of new Pokemon <- 100% Fan-Wank, not to be taken seriously.
 
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So this is just me brainstorming but what if the leaked dex is just for only one of the islands? In Kalos the dex we had coastal mountain and central regions, Whats the likelihood of something similar?
 

TyLogic

Well-Known Member
So this is just me brainstorming but what if the leaked dex is just for only one of the islands? In Kalos the dex we had coastal mountain and central regions, Whats the likelihood of something similar?

I think we already figured out the distribution of the Pokemon on each island, so this is most likely all we will get friend.
 

marumaruko

Ghost Trainer
I for one am glad for the "small" regional Dex, because I already lack motivation to catch quite a bunch of Pokemon in the dex. That way it's still sort of doable.

Btw, do we know which Pokemon is available where? Probably not, I guess.
I'm super curious where to catch Phantump/Trevenant.
 

Falo

Active Member
The mega ring is likely a left over from other games. We know from dialog from Dexio that the Z Ring can be used for mega evolution

Could be true, but i just noted what i found in the code, and there are checks for both,
Savedata::MyStatus::HasMegaRing and Savedata::MyStatus::HasZenryokuRing
Both are checking for flags set and not for left over items.

And Both are used in the Battle.cro, it's not just left-over code, it's new code.
Also this code here is exclusive to the mega ring and the same cannot be found for the Z-Ring:
Code:
        if ( pml::pokepara::CoreParam::GetMegaFormCount(Pokemon) )
        {
          if ( pml::pokepara::CoreParam::CanMegaEvolve(Pokemon) )
          {
            MyStatus = (*(int (**)(void))(**(_DWORD **)(a1 + 112) + 92))();
            if ( !MyStatus || Savedata::MyStatus::HasMegaRing(MyStatus) )
              return 1;
          }
        }

Pokemon S&M confirmed!

On a serious note, with the state of the demo datamine, do you think we could find out how Pokemon from VC Gen I games are converted by title launch?
Nintendo posted it already somewhere, we can use the PokéTransporter App to transfer them from VC to Bank and then from Bank to XYORASSuMo.

To the rumors about Kanto remake, the full game is over 3 GB, XY and ORAS both were ~1.8 GB, more then 1.5 GB is alone for the pokemon models, animations and sound. i don't think there is enough space for a second region. It's more likely that we will get a post-game Alola Gym System.
 

Everlasting

Everything stays.
I for one am glad for the "small" regional Dex, because I already lack motivation to catch quite a bunch of Pokemon in the dex. That way it's still sort of doable.

Btw, do we know which Pokemon is available where? Probably not, I guess.
I'm super curious where to catch Phantump/Trevenant.
We know the regional distribution on the islands, but where the Pokémon are located on said islands is still unknown. We can still draw information out of this distribution though: Phantump appears in the Akala Pokédex, meaning that players will likely be able to capture it not too late in the game, as Akala appears to be the second island we visit.
 
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