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Pokémon Sun & Moon Discovery Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

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Creyk

Well-Known Member
I hate that these games haven't even come out yet and so many people are already being so negative about them.

People wouldn't be negative if they didn't have a good reason to be that.
These games have obvious shortcomings in many aspects, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. You have to remember, that they took an extra year to make it....yeah that is totally not justified here. There is no more to this than XY, the alolan pokemon concept is heavily under utilized, and they did not even include new mega evolutions! And the list goes on.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
I hate that these games haven't even come out yet and so many people are already being so negative about them.

They aren't lying and they aren't hurting anyone when they say that certain things that really helped a lot of players and entertained them are missing from these games.
So i fail to see how them writing constructive criticism is wrong.

If you don't mind the lack of the national dex, easy ev training, triple battles, rotation battles and etc, that's completely fine and all but please don't try to shut them up just bc they disagree and think these things became a important part of the franchise and removing them is unnecessary.
 
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Everlasting

Everything stays.
They aren't lying and they aren't hurting anyone when they say that certain things that really helped a lot of players and entertained them are missing from these games.
So i fail to see how them writing constructive criticism is wrong.

If you don't mind the lack of the national dex, easy ev training, triple battles, rotation battles and etc, that's completely fine and all but please don't try to shut them up just bc they disagree and think these things became a important part of the franchise and removing them is unnecessary.

But the thing is, people making the early criticism have not played the game yet.
Putting all of a game's "shortcomings" flat on a table like that will undoubtedly create some disappointments and disagreements amongst a fanbase. What I find unfair is that some people are already so quick at qualifying this game a failure without actually playing the game and living with the new mechanics to replace the old ones.

I don't mind the criticism, but like future.newyorker, I think it's a bit too early for that (at least the ones as harsh as 'I will skip this game') . People will likely get used to the changes and find ways to make the new mechanics convenient or work around the absence of previous ones.
 
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willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
How can you not hate a game in which breeding two fire-type Ninetales produces an egg of an Ice-type Vulpix? What, does Alola contain some weird energy that makes Vulpixes to turn into ice? If that were the case, any and all Vulpix/Ninetales would turn into ice-types and as such we couldn't not have a fire-type Ninetales at all.

The way it should work is: pokemon found natively in Alola are alolan-form, and if they are female, they produce an alola-form when bred. Or even a 50/50 chance if the father is fire-type and the mother is ice-type. How is that NOT the proper mechanic at work?

People are justified in hating. Come on...
 
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future.newyorker

Well-Known Member
How can you not hate a game in which breeding two fire-type Ninetales produces an egg of an Ice-type Vulpix? What, does Alola contain some weird energy that makes Vulpixes to turn into ice? If that were the case, any and all Vulpix/Ninetales would turn into ice-types and as such we couldn't not have a fire-type Ninetales at all.

The way it should work is: pokemon found natively in Alola are alolan-form, and if they are female, they produce an alola-form when bred. How is that NOT the proper mechanic at work?

People are justified in hating. Come on...

However; this isn't real life. It's a game. You can't expect it to work that way when there's no basis for it working that way to begin with.
 

lactatingRHINO7

Active Member
But the thing is, people making the early criticism have not played the game yet.
Putting all of a game's "shortcomings" flat on a table like that will undoubtedly create some disappointments and disagreements amongst a fanbase. What I find unfair is that some people are already so quick at qualifying this game a failure without actually playing the game and living with the new mechanics to replace the old ones.

I don't mind the criticism, but like future.newyorker, I think it's a bit too early for that (at least the ones as harsh as 'I will skip this game') . People will likely get used to the changes and find ways to make the new mechanics convenient or work around the absence of previous ones.

Some people actually have played the games
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
But the thing is, people making the early criticism have not played the game yet.
Putting all of a game's shortcomings flat on a table like that will undoubtedly create some disappointments and disagreements amongst a fanbase. What I find unfair is that some people are already so quick at qualifying this game a failure without actually playing the game and living with the new mechanics to replace the old ones.

I don't mind the criticism, but like future.newyorker, I think it's a bit too early for that (at least not the ones as harsh as 'I will skip this game') . People will likely get used to the changes and find ways to make the new mechanics convenient or work around the absence of previous ones.

The rom is out and many people played and the ones who didn't are just criticizing the lack of things the people who played confirmed they aren't going to return.
I know you're excited over a new pokemon game and don't want to see other people killing your hype, but you don't have to read their comments if you think their comments will affect your enjoyment. There is a ignore feature in this forum and they are free to express how disappointed they are over some of GF's decisions.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
How can you not hate a game in which breeding two fire-type Ninetales produces an egg of an Ice-type Vulpix? What, does Alola contain some weird energy that makes Vulpixes to turn into ice? If that were the case, any and all Vulpix/Ninetales would turn into ice-types and as such we couldn't not have a fire-type Ninetales at all.

The way it should work is: pokemon found natively in Alola are alolan-form, and if they are female, they produce an alola-form when bred. Or even a 50/50 chance if the father is fire-type and the mother is ice-type. How is that NOT the proper mechanic at work?

People are justified in hating. Come on...
You mean to tell me that Pokémon, the game where tiny bushes block your way and can only be cut down using one particular move, is once again breaking the laws of logic and science?

Shocker.
 

willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
Fanboys, can't beat them. Not ever.

The hilarity: when I criticized GF for making alolan-forms in the first place, I was told "it made sense" because speciation is a real-world thing. But now that I expect real-world mechanics to apply, because it ONLY makes sense... I'm told "it's just a game, bro, don't expect it to work like the real world".

Hilarious.
 

Everlasting

Everything stays.
The rom is out and many people played and the ones who didn't are just criticizing the lack of things the people who played confirmed they aren't going to return.
I know you're excited over a new pokemon game and don't want to see other people killing your hype, but you don't have to read their comments if you think their comments will affect your enjoyment. There is a ignore feature in this forum and they are free to express how disappointed they are over some of GF's decisions.

'Many' might be a strong word right now.
Regardless, knowing that some mechanics were taken out will certainly make people be disappointed. What will I believe be a bit more fair is when people actually get to play the game, experience the absence of old mechanics and the presence of new ones. For example, maybe the 'absence of hordes' won't be as much of a downer once they realize there are other ways for them to EV train their Pokémon and that 'ally calling' actually gives them a easy source of HA Pokémon as a plus.

My enjoyment for the games is and will be unaffected by other people's opinion. I was just giving mine which, by what your saying, should be just as valid as other people's.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
Fanboys, can't beat them. Not ever.

The hilarity: when I criticized GF for making alolan-forms in the first place, I was told "it made sense" because speciation is a real-world thing. But now that I expect real-world mechanics to apply, because it ONLY makes sense... I'm told "it's just a game, bro, don't expect it to work like the real world".

Hilarious.
So, just because some people do like real world concepts in Pokémon, that doesn't mean they can't be ok if they don't follow real world concepts?

Ok.

Also, I love you can't defend a game anymore without being called a "fanboy" or something.
 
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Graficcha

Team Magma Scientist
Fanboys, can't beat them. Not ever.

The hilarity: when I criticized GF for making alolan-forms in the first place, I was told "it made sense" because speciation is a real-world thing. But now that I expect real-world mechanics to apply, because it ONLY makes sense... I'm told "it's just a game, bro, don't expect it to work like the real world".

Hilarious.

I suppose if we can assume that the alolan environment imbues pokémon with a specific kind of influence, through maternal effects (that aren't showing on the parents because they're already physically developed) it could still pass on the morphological effects onto the egg.

The forms are after all not directly incompatible, separated species (yet), but a different expression pattern of the same pokemon.

It's a bit of a handwave but I could work with that explanation.
 

Requiem Aeternam

Dance like an eggplant!
I hate that these games haven't even come out yet and so many people are already being so negative about them.

I'm still looking forward to the games but some of what's been confirmed through the leaks has been extremely disappointing. The fact that Hyper Training isn't as useful as it was made out to be when it was announced, the fact that the National Dex is now gone and now that EV training is once again a chore, my excitement has been slowly decreasing. IV breeding is one of the biggest factors for me so to discover it's being made harder again isn't good. Not to mention the removal of Triples (my fave battling style) and Rotation battles is the biggest disappointment yet.

One thing I wanted was new Mega Evolutions for some of my underrated favourites (eg Cacturne and Golduck) but we didn't get any new ones, getting Alolan forms instead. While they are an interesting concept they were executed poorly compared to what they could have done. Apart from being exclusively Kanto Pokemon, most of the Alolan forms we got are very disappointing with merely a new type or minimal changes to the original while the better one got completely new types and drastic redesigns. They could have done so much with them but missed the opportunity. Alolan Muk could have been made of lava and been a fire type which would have been really cool but instead all we got was a green one with stones and horrible colours mixed in and a disappointing type. Then there's the Ultra Beasts which I think are the dumbest idea so far and the designs for them are horrible and don't fit in with Pokemon at all IMO.

Again, I'm still looking forward to the games but I'm not as excited as I was before the above information was leaked. If the post-game turns out to be lacklustre and disappointing as well, I'll most likely end up going back to Gen6.
 

KenzeyEevee

Gliscor is amazing
Hang on a second...

So is there a moon dial in Alola and a waterfall that flows backwards as hinted back in Kalos. If not, then maybe Kalos was talking about a completely different region we have yet to see.

Can we go to Kalos?
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
Wait, so, what's the deal with Hyper Training? It doesn't raise IVs after all?
 

GDK

Well-Known Member
I'm still looking forward to the games but some of what's been confirmed through the leaks has been extremely disappointing. The fact that Hyper Training isn't as useful as it was made out to be when it was announced, the fact that the National Dex is now gone and now that EV training is once again a chore, my excitement has been slowly decreasing. IV breeding is one of the biggest factors for me so to discover it's being made harder again isn't good. Not to mention the removal of Triples (my fave battling style) and Rotation battles is the biggest disappointment yet.

One thing I wanted was new Mega Evolutions for some of my underrated favourites (eg Cacturne and Golduck) but we didn't get any new ones, getting Alolan forms instead. While they are an interesting concept they were executed poorly compared to what they could have done. Apart from being exclusively Kanto Pokemon, most of the Alolan forms we got are very disappointing with merely a new type or minimal changes to the original while the better one got completely new types and drastic redesigns. They could have done so much with them but missed the opportunity. Alolan Muk could have been made of lava and been a fire type which would have been really cool but instead all we got was a green one with stones and horrible colours mixed in and a disappointing type. Then there's the Ultra Beasts which I think are the dumbest idea so far and the designs for them are horrible and don't fit in with Pokemon at all IMO.

Again, I'm still looking forward to the games but I'm not as excited as I was before the above information was leaked. If the post-game turns out to be lacklustre and disappointing as well, I'll most likely end up going back to Gen6.

But EV training is not a chore, for all we know it stil can be easy. Hordes are gone but Ev training in the PC <hile you do something else is awesome.

Wait, so, what's the deal with Hyper Training? It doesn't raise IVs after all?

They don't really raise IV, they just give you a boost in stats equivalent to raisin your IV to 31 BUT the IV value will be the original one, so Hidden power won't change and when breeding you won't tranfer 31 IV but the original value.
 

willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
So, just because some people do like real world concepts in Pokémon, that doesn't mean they can't be ok if they don't follow real world concepts?

Ok.

Also, I love you can't defend a game anymore without being called a "fanboy" or something.

Because this is undefendable. If all Vulpix born in Alola, regardless of its parent are ice-type, then you cannot have a transfered fire-type vulpix in alola. Either Alola transforms all vulpixes to ice, or their type is determined by their parents, and that's not the case. It's just retarded man. You cannot defend it. Well, you can, but I will call you the same adjective as I called the mechanic.
 
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