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Pokémon Sun & Moon Discovery Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

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Samayouru

Rabid Dusclops Fan
Whoa, didn't think having a more negative outlook on the games would cause this much of an effect.

There are some things I do like - some of the Aloha forms look nice, Mimikyu is diabeetus inducing, the new "gym" mechanics are interesting and I finally get my Ghost-Type starter. I appreciate what they're trying to do with the UBs too, I'm just concerned it'll be just XY with a different name attached to it as well as some gimmicks that'll never be brought up in the Pokemon games ever again.

I honestly envy all of the people on these forums who don't come to this thread now. This thread has been full of negativity for days, all other threads are full of actual discussion and excitement for these games.

> Thread full of negativity.

Welcome to the internet.
 
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Bluemiracle

Biologist
What the? They removed National Dex? No new areas to explre after beating the game? Man.. I kind of agree with thiagomestres
 

Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
The rom is out and many people played and the ones who didn't are just criticizing the lack of things the people who played confirmed they aren't going to return.
I know you're excited over a new pokemon game and don't want to see other people killing your hype, but you don't have to read their comments if you think their comments will affect your enjoyment. There is a ignore feature in this forum and they are free to express how disappointed they are over some of GF's decisions.

Eh, people are entitled to their opinion and all but I think a lot of the criticisms are blown out of proportion. The lack of triple/rotation battles (which were kinda gimmicky and barely appeared in the game anyway) or horde battles don't make this a terrible game. Some of this is based on misinformation too; super training is gone, yeah, but there's a replacement for it in poke pelago. And no one is even saying you can't criticize, just that the hyper-negativity about a game that we haven't even played is kind of annoying.


Side note, but where is the confirmation that regular Pokemon breed to make their Alolan form? I haven't seen anything about that.


Bluemiracle said:
What the? They removed National Dex? No new areas to explre after beating the game? Man.. I kind of agree with thiagomestres
Yeah, the lack of a National Dex is bizarre. I guess they're focusing less on dex completion now because there's 800 of the things.

There are a couple of post game areas for the Tapu's IIRC, but yeah, nothing major. XY and ORAS didn't have anything either though, so I'm not really surprised.
 
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future.newyorker

Well-Known Member
we know the rom version is the real one and people already posted here how much it lags on the 3ds.

Even if these game weren't slow, which is not true btw, what about everything else? How do you justify not having a national dex, a good postgame, a reasonable way to train our pokemon's evs and everything else?


for gods sake, you know you can just get out of this thread if you don't like our honest opinions, right?

Pokémon Bank is getting the national dex for this gen. A good post game is really subjective to who you ask, and as for EV's and IV's, I couldn't really care less. I play for the fun factor, as I do with all games, not the competitive factor.
 

Sαpphire

Johto Champion
Constructive criticism and dialogue is great. "I hate this game [before playing it]" is not constructive criticism.

One thing I wanted was new Mega Evolutions for some of my underrated favourites (eg Cacturne and Golduck) but we didn't get any new ones, getting Alolan forms instead. While they are an interesting concept they were executed poorly compared to what they could have done. Apart from being exclusively Kanto Pokemon, most of the Alolan forms we got are very disappointing with merely a new type or minimal changes to the original while the better one got completely new types and drastic redesigns. They could have done so much with them but missed the opportunity. Alolan Muk could have been made of lava and been a fire type which would have been really cool but instead all we got was a green one with stones and horrible colours mixed in and a disappointing type. Then there's the Ultra Beasts which I think are the dumbest idea so far and the designs for them are horrible and don't fit in with Pokemon at all IMO.

To be fair, most of these criticisms fall very far on the subjective side. We had some strong hints really early on that new Megas, especially for less popular species, weren't going to be a thing if they focused on the new mechanic that became Z-Moves. Alolan forms had a lot more potential, yes, but also consider that they have to balance redesigns of classic Pokemon with appealing to fans who have always been here and might object to what they perceive as revision of their favorite generation.

You mean to tell me that Pokémon, the game where tiny bushes block your way and can only be cut down using one particular move, is once again breaking the laws of logic and science?

Shocker.

I think he has a point though - don't you? When Pokemon breaks the laws of science or physics, it typically does so in a way that is easily, concisely explained and that doesn't shatter the concept of suspension of disbelief. If the fact that two normal forms breeding yields an Alolan variant isn't very well explained, it not only harms suspension of disbelief, but violates established in-universe precedent for exactly how to defy logic, you know? It's a relatively minor thing for most players, but he's right that it doesn't make sense.

But the thing is, people making the early criticism have not played the game yet.
Putting all of a game's "shortcomings" flat on a table like that will undoubtedly create some disappointments and disagreements amongst a fanbase. What I find unfair is that some people are already so quick at qualifying this game a failure without actually playing the game and living with the new mechanics to replace the old ones.

I don't mind the criticism, but like future.newyorker, I think it's a bit too early for that (at least the ones as harsh as 'I will skip this game') . People will likely get used to the changes and find ways to make the new mechanics convenient or work around the absence of previous ones.

I would tend to agree here. Whatever one's reaction to the things leakers and dataminers are saying, I don't think that skipping the game or concluding it's just bad is really the way to go before actually playing through and experiencing everything. Pokemon is made to be changed with every generation, and they haven't had a single dud game yet - I can't help but think that even in making these controversial decisions, they still put a lot of hard work into the games and thought about every action. Given that these are likely based on the XYORAS engine, removing some of these things had to be very intentional.

I'm not in favor of a few of the changes made, but I haven't seen anything that would make me think these won't be some of the best pokemon games yet. Then again things like extensive postgame or complex battle facilities (I never even did a lot in most of the Battle Frontier facilities) have never been that important to me, I look for fun gameplay, beautiful graphics, and additions/changes that improve various pokemon and battles in general. Sun and Moon seems to have a ton of that.

I also agree with this; not all the things here seem all that great to me, but a LOT of what we have with the story, designs, gameplay, characters, etc. seems wildly encouraging. They have everything I look for and more in the actual plot, so I'm excited - and since it looks like they're longer and tougher I'm double excited! The post-game doesn't seem bad at all, and the lack of a Battle Frontier style postgame challenge is just something we should probably get used to; since 2011 with Black and White, we've only gotten one battle facility per game, with the sole exception of also having the PWT in B2W2. That this one seems simple with a cameo gimmick actually doesn't seem that bad to me. I like the gimmick!

The game is very clearly rushed to release as XY and ORAS, but I think the latter takes much more place, with the whole alchemy theme and multiverse theme going out of proportion, and the whole speculation about UBs being/taking the form of humans thing.

I do want to nitpick a little bit here - I really don't think these games seem rushed. They've probably been in development longer than any other games we've had since Diamond and Pearl, since this is the first two-year gap we've had for the main series since then (besides Platinum, which is just their third version).
 

thiagomestres

Well-Known Member
Pokémon Bank is getting the national dex for this gen. A good post game is really subjective to who you ask, and as for EV's and IV's, I couldn't really care less. I play for the fun factor, as I do with all games, not the competitive factor.

yeah i get it that you don't care for other players who liked those features and who played competitively :)

but guess what, you're not the only one entitled to a opinion
 

future.newyorker

Well-Known Member
Someone has asked here about whether a moondial and a waterfall that flows backwards exist in Alola, and I have the same question as well. Do these things exist?

Not that has been said. There is however a lake that can transport you between the world of Sun and the world of Moon, but it is really only used to change the time in your game and nothing else.
 

theswweet

swweet is awesomme!
Why do people keep memeing on about no postgame when S/M have way more postgame than X/Y did? Besides catching Mewtwo, your legendary bird, and Zygarde - what was there to do? Get all your Mega Stones? Battle Maison, yeah, but meh.

S/M has the UBs hunt, the Tapus, Necrozma, getting the second Cosmog from the opposite world, the Battle Tree, defending your champion title, Trial Captain and E4 rematches, finding the rest of the Zygarde cells/cores, and unless I'm mistaken there is still text we've found in the datamine we haven't found in-game yet.

Not to mention stuff that isn't technically postgame, but optional stuff you can hit whenever. I for one appreciate the fact that S/M look like they've got a lot more side content than X/Y did, with places to actually explore and backtrack to.
 

Thepowaofhax

Well-Known Member
Why is everyone jumping to the conclusion that breeding a non-Alolan mon will give you an Alolan mon? Just because there isn't a National Dex does not mean you can't breeding a normal Geodude and still get a normal Geodude. We need more confirmation that just "the national dex is a pokebank only thing."

Edit: Never mind, someone ninja'd me with a Kazowar tweet.
 

theswweet

swweet is awesomme!
Not that has been said. There is however a lake that can transport you between the world of Sun and the world of Moon, but it is really only used to change the time in your game and nothing else.

And to get that second Cosmog. I'm going to bet there are a few other things we haven't found yet either, since exploring your original world you can only find 50 out of 100 Zygarde cells/cores.
 

GDK

Well-Known Member
No, it's pretty much the same thing.



I guess you don't know how the Isle feature and the other features that raise evs work:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/74555261

It's slow af.

The super training wasn't faster than horde battles, but they were still fast, fun, allowed us to check our evs and you could use it pretty much anywhere and whenever you wanted, even in the start of the game. If you didn't like them, then you could just use horde battles, but we are not getting horde battles in these games either.

It's slow but you can do something in parallel.
Super training was slow tedious and you couldn't do anything at all in the same time. Super training was slower than fighting mons in the wild.
 

Sαpphire

Johto Champion
Why is everyone jumping to the conclusion that breeding a non-Alolan mon will give you an Alolan mon? Just because there isn't a National Dex does not mean you can't breeding a normal Geodude and still get a normal Geodude. We need more confirmation that just "the national dex is a pokebank only thing."

People who have played have stated, and offered screenshots to corroborate, that breeding normal forms results in an Alolan form.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
LMAO are people really defending the removal of all these features? Look, I love pokemon, its my all time favourite IP. But I can't defend the removal of all these key features.

We have no national dex, a lackluster postgame that has 0 new areas to explore, no new megas even though gf hyped them as the next big thing, a lot of new pokemon with awful stats and move pools, a terrible battle facility which overhyped cameos but only has a couple of them and some of them are just underwhelming, no triple battles, no rotation battles, no horde battles and no super training which means EV training will be slow and boring once again, almost as many new pokemon as XY and a lagged af gameplay, especially on the o3ds.

The story is cool, but it really doesn't justifies this.

Completly agreed.

Really, all those changes in mechanics have been so lackluster for me, I was very near to completly dropping those games.

If I didn't have any hope that's going to backfire on Game Freak, I would give up on these games.
 

theswweet

swweet is awesomme!
People who have played have stated, and offered screenshots to corroborate, that breeding normal forms results in an Alolan form.

That's odd, because I've seen pics of signs in-game saying that breeding a non-Alolan form in Alola is supposed to give you the original form of that Pokemon. Is it a bug then?
 

ebevan91

Well-Known Member
Why do people keep memeing on about no postgame when S/M have way more postgame than X/Y did? Besides catching Mewtwo, your legendary bird, and Zygarde - what was there to do? Get all your Mega Stones? Battle Maison, yeah, but meh.

S/M has the UBs hunt, the Tapus, Necrozma, getting the second Cosmog from the opposite world, the Battle Tree, defending your champion title, Trial Captain and E4 rematches, finding the rest of the Zygarde cells/cores, and unless I'm mistaken there is still text we've found in the datamine we haven't found in-game yet.

Not to mention stuff that isn't technically postgame, but optional stuff you can hit whenever. I for one appreciate the fact that S/M look like they've got a lot more side content than X/Y did, with places to actually explore and backtrack to.

It's not really post-game content I'm looking for, but as you said, side content. More to do than just get your starter, go collect gym badges, battle and defeat evil teams, elite four, and champion like previous games. If the extra content comes before post-game, then so be it.
 

Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
Constructive criticism and dialogue is great. "I hate this game [before playing it]" is not constructive criticism.
+1

Someone has asked here about whether a moondial and a waterfall that flows backwards exist in Alola, and I have the same question as well. Do these things exist?
I haven't heard anything about either of them, but they're the type of stuff that people might just not bother to report.

I'm pretty sure the backwards waterfall was a Distortion world reference regardless, and I don't remember when the moondial was brought up but it could easily have been a throwaway line.


Cheers.

That's... another really bizarre decision. Presumably they'll change this next gen to, like, make sense, so I wonder why they didn't just take the straightforward approach right now.
 
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