Pokémon Sun & Moon Discovery Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

[Giblie]

I may be a bit disappointed that all Pokemon were data mined (and not having very many for that matter) and that there are some I don't quite like, but I'll get used to it. The Pokemon won't stop me from playing in this amazing region. The features and graphics alone are enough for me to play. I am also disappointed with mainly Litten's final evo not being quardraped, but I'll live. I'm going with Popplio instead anyway. And you never know, maybe once I see its animations and hear its cry, I may like it more. At least it is better looking than Chestnaught imo.

However, I love Salandit's evolution! Can't wait!

Edit: I am also pretty disappointed that there is no Alolan Rapidash and that the regular isn't even in that regional dex picture...
Rapidash is yet another Pokemon that doesn't get any love. :c

 

[LinksOcarina]

I had a thought. Since we have the Pokemon "gods" like arceus and the creation trio, what if the ultra beasts are the opposite, the so called Pokemon "Devils." The popular theory is that they are either from another dimension or are Pokemon/human hybrids, but what if they are either the seven deadly sins or represent the different levels of hell from dante's inferno, with that big mouth monster being the end game boss/Pokemon devil.

Cool idea for sure. Although ive heard a lot of theories from Girantina to Zygarde to others seen as the "devils" of Pokemon.

I will say however, I think the Ultra Beasts are something worse- the hybridization of Pokemon and people is really the only thing I can think of that makes sense...or even more interesting, they are the representations of Pokemon based on the people they fight. Maybe people are killed or have their life essence drained, or something PG like that, and that creates Ultra Beasts.

Who knows though.

 

[Grey Wind]

I'm really so let down by the Alolan forms, there's so much potential in developing alternate forms through speciation, yet I feel very few really took advantage of that.

Yeah, I'd be inclined to agree. Not to be all "the fans could do it WAY better!!" but with so many interesting ideas floating around, I'm disappointed that stuff like Dugtrio with a wig and purple Meowth are some of the only ones that made the cut. I wish there'd been more variety, and I wish they hadn't limited it to Kanto 'mons.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation. What we have is what we have, it was big mistake to leave it in. Gamefreak made an error somewhere in there when they scrubbed everything else but the images.

That being said, this is the company that once added a Mew after their game went gold before just because they could. They also did something similar with a few design changes between Ruby/Sapphire if I recall correctly Chimeco was a late addition and Shellos and Gastrodon were removed, which is confirmed I believe.

What bothers me is the math here; 78 of those Pokemon from the datamine are brand new, not counting Alolan forms - including the Oricorio (4), WishiWashi (2) and Lycanroc (2) forms. Of those 78, 55 of them were previously seen, along with all but six Alolan forms and five ultra beasts.

Counting Alolan forms and Ultra Beasts, (18 and 8, respectively) you have a total of 104 new Pokemon (maybe, if Ultra Beasts are Pokemon were still not sure) in the game, but 69 of those Pokemon were already shown to us, including forms. Throw in Ash-Pikachu and Ash-Greninja, you bump that up to 106.

For a comparison, Generation 4 had a similar number, 107 new Pokemon, and pre-release, we had 23 Pokemon I believe known before Launch? We also had a similar trend, out of the 107 new Pokemon, 26 were a pre-evo or final evo for older generations, which matches up with the Alolan forms somewhat.

The choice to reveal the majority of the Pokedex, if this is the final count, is an interesting one. Perhaps the focus, in the end, is the side-missions and post-game content in the end over a high number of new Pokemon. Either way, what is interesting about this entire thing is the potential for more to be revealed, we still need names of course. We still need types and stats to go through. Will it happen? Will we see that soon, along with a surprise Pokemon or two?

Well, Occam's Razor states otherwise...but stranger things may happen.

I can actually kind of understand releasing so many before the game comes out...marketing wise, they don't really stand to loose anything by not withholding. There are very few people (if any) who will cancel their pre-order just because more Pokémon were revealed pre-release, but they stand to generate more hype and get more attention the more they release. Plus, it's something they can release that doesn't spoil plot.

Is the order they are being put in more or less confirmed, or are they sort of finding the images arbitrarily? Because there isn't really room for missing Pokémon going in order. If it goes in order up to the legends in the national Dex, I think we can rest assured that's it. They don't really put regular Pokémon after the legends.

 

[Taodragon]

Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation. What we have is what we have, it was big mistake to leave it in. Gamefreak made an error somewhere in there when they scrubbed everything else but the images.

That being said, this is the company that once added a Mew after their game went gold before just because they could. They also did something similar with a few design changes between Ruby/Sapphire if I recall correctly Chimeco was a late addition and Shellos and Gastrodon were removed, which is confirmed I believe.

What bothers me is the math here; 78 of those Pokemon from the datamine are brand new, not counting Alolan forms - including the Oricorio (4), WishiWashi (2) and Lycanroc (2) forms. Of those 78, 55 of them were previously seen, along with all but six Alolan forms and five ultra beasts.

Counting Alolan forms and Ultra Beasts, (18 and 8, respectively) you have a total of 104 new Pokemon (maybe, if Ultra Beasts are Pokemon were still not sure) in the game, but 69 of those Pokemon were already shown to us, including forms. Throw in Ash-Pikachu and Ash-Greninja, you bump that up to 106.

For a comparison, Generation 4 had a similar number, 107 new Pokemon, and pre-release, we had 23 Pokemon I believe known before Launch? We also had a similar trend, out of the 107 new Pokemon, 26 were a pre-evo or final evo for older generations, which matches up with the Alolan forms somewhat.

The choice to reveal the majority of the Pokedex, if this is the final count, is an interesting one. Perhaps the focus, in the end, is the side-missions and post-game content in the end over a high number of new Pokemon. Either way, what is interesting about this entire thing is the potential for more to be revealed, we still need names of course. We still need types and stats to go through. Will it happen? Will we see that soon, along with a surprise Pokemon or two?

Well, Occam's Razor states otherwise...but stranger things may happen.

Yeah, if there's one thing I'll say about GF's handling of pre-release, it's that they've gotten a lot more loose with the information they release. Just looking at new Pokémon/forms, we had Gen 6 reveal 42 out of 72 of its Pokémon, ORAS reveal all of its Megas, and now Sun/Moon reveal at least 53 new Pokémon + 3 UBs + all except two Alolan lines + Persian (and I think Dugtrio is in the demo anyway).

It seems like GF wants to reveal more about the games for whatever reason, maybe it's because they feel doing so will entice more fans, but whatever the case there's definitely a marked change.

 

[ArtFenix]

Spoiler: undefined

How did they find those? And they are so cool, dammit!

These look absolutely gorgeous! Best title screens along with RSE, HGSS, B2W2 and ORAS (with XY being slightly less impressive, IMO). If there's any Pokemon I absolutely love in this Gen, it's the box art legendaries. I just hope there is the third legendary with appropriate form, even it it appears in the next game(s) of Gen VII.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

I'm guessing Zygarde is a side mission then?

 

[LinksOcarina]

Yeah, if there's one thing I'll say about GF's handling of pre-release, it's that they've gotten a lot more loose with the information they release. Just looking at new Pokémon/forms, we had Gen 6 reveal 42 out of 72 of its Pokémon, ORAS reveal all of its Megas, and now Sun/Moon reveal at least 53 new Pokémon + 3 UBs + all except two Alolan lines + Persian (and I think Dugtrio is in the demo anyway).

It seems like GF wants to reveal more about the games for whatever reason, maybe it's because they feel doing so will entice more fans, but whatever the case there's definitely a marked change.

It is why I think it was done on purpose, honestly. It is also why I think there are more secrets to unlock, and the potential for more Pokemon, although truth be told I doubt it in the end.

 

[Team Volt Grunt]

Did the data mining give us the order of the pokedex?

 

[diakyu]

I'm guessing Zygarde is a side mission then?

That or a post-game story ala Delta Episode.

 

[Punchdrunk]

OK, so I might be misremembering here... But Gen IV, as I recall, had a bunch of new pokemon that weren't in the regional dex. Basically all the ones that were evos of stuff from prior gens, stuff like Magnezone and Yanmega, weren't available in the game until after the national dex had been unlocked.

Given that the demo leak only appears to be the Alolan regional dex, there's every chance that there might still be new pokemon to come in the post game. Especially since there are so few Alolan forms that haven't already been shown. New evos and regional forms still seem possible to me.

Could be wrong. I have been wrong before. But there's definitely precedent for it.

 

[Missingno.Fan]

Things I like:
-Wimpod's evolution
-Marshadow
-Ultra Beasts
-Most Alolan forms

What I don't like:
-No fossils
-Way too many stand alone Pokémon. This is especially bothersome because there are several that just scream like they are part of a family (Drampa, Komala, etc)
-No dolphin
-The fact that Pikipek evolves into a toucan. I like the idea of a toucan Pokémon, but I wanted it to be separate from Pikipek.
-The fact that the majority of the dex was revealed before hand.

 

[LinksOcarina]

I can actually kind of understand releasing so many before the game comes out...marketing wise, they don't really stand to loose anything by not withholding. There are very few people (if any) who will cancel their pre-order just because more Pokémon were revealed pre-release, but they stand to generate more hype and get more attention the more they release. Plus, it's something they can release that doesn't spoil plot.

Is the order they are being put in more or less confirmed, or are they sort of finding the images arbitrarily? Because there isn't really room for missing Pokémon going in order. If it goes in order up to the legends in the national Dex, I think we can rest assured that's it. They don't really put regular Pokémon after the legends.

Well as I said, Chimecho was a late addition in Ruby/Sapphire. In the games index number it was dead last, after Deoxys and other legionaries.

We don't have index numbers I believe to confirm things, we just have a general number of 802-803 or whatever it is now. There is potential...but it's again unlikely.

I will more or less adopt the "well see" mentality on this one.

 

[Excitable Boy]

The anchor is the only guy here that really grabs my interest, honestly.

Glad to see the Regional Dex has been nerfed compared to XY's. Definitely some interesting picks there - very heavy on Kanto and Kanto-derived, both Sinnoh and Unova fossils alongside Aerodactyl, and quite a few standalones.

 

[Endless]

OK, so I might be misremembering here... But Gen IV, as I recall, had a bunch of new pokemon that weren't in the regional dex. Basically all the ones that were evos of stuff from prior gens, stuff like Magnezone and Yanmega, weren't available in the game until after the national dex had been unlocked.

Given that the demo leak only appears to be the Alolan regional dex, there's every chance that there might still be new pokemon to come in the post game. Especially since there are so few Alolan forms that haven't already been shown. New evos and regional forms still seem possible to me.

Could be wrong. I have been wrong before. But there's definitely precedent for it.

Well we know that Ash-Greninja is an example of this, since it's not in the regional dex and thus its preview image wasn't datamined.
I doubt this will be the case for more pokémon though, perhaps with the exception of some mythical pokémon. (which I don't really see much of unless both Marshadow and some UBs are supposed to fill that role)

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Did the data mining give us the order of the pokedex?

The current order of the Pokémon is believed to be the same as the dex order.

 

[Fairy Queen]

I feel like they wasted a lot of potential with the Alola forms by restricting them to Gen 1 only. I feel like they had to force new forms on us, like Dugtrio with a wig, Golem with a mustache, or Royalty Meowth. Heck, they couldn't even think of a valid reason for Alola Raichu.

Instead, they could have used Tropius (actually makes me sad how perfect Tropius would have been for the typing of Grass/Dragon in this new tropical region), Cherrim, Bellossom, Sudowoodo, etc. just from the tropicalness alone.

Also, is anyone else surprised there weren't more volcanic pokemon/references to volcanic activity?

 

[WishIhadaManafi5]

I feel like they wasted a lot of potential with the Alola forms by restricting them to Gen 1 only. I feel like they had to force new forms on us, like Dugtrio with a wig, Golem with a mustache, or Royalty Meowth. Heck, they couldn't even think of a valid reason for Alola Raichu.

Instead, they could have used Tropius (actually makes me sad how perfect Tropius would have been for the typing of Grass/Dragon in this new tropical region), Cherrim, Bellossom, Sudowoodo, etc. just from the tropicalness alone.

Also, is anyone else surprised there weren't more volcanic pokemon/references to volcanic activity?

Yea. I was hoping that Geodude would go in that direction. I'm not digging the new line there.

 

[Tagi]

Seems like everyone is feeling dissapointed? Let me be one of the few to state the opposite.
Sure Alolan Persian and Dugtrio seem silly and another wrestler looking firetype?

I've already planned out two seperated teams because even though the roster is small like last gen, I really like the Pokémon we are getting like last gen. Can't wait to finally play the story and watch it unfold before my eyes!

I really, really like the bubble spider too! And Sandalit's evo!

 

[WhiteBlair]

So uh, Polygon just low key confirmed what's in Lillie's bag. It's the Solgaleo and Lunalla form or whatever it is. RIP polygon tho, Gamexplain said they couldn't say what it was.

That's one of a big information right there. I'm wondering if we will be able to raise and evolve them, or they'll bond with Lillie and appear to save her/us in full form during Ultra Beast fights.