Pokémon TCG Help Thread [Gameplay questions]

[Wishing Star]

I think in this case you might be reading a little too far into specific word choice. In either of those phrases, the overall result is that, if you want the attack to be successful, you have to do [X]. An attack that does nothing is functionally the same thing as no attack at all (and since one of the rules of the game is that you can't perform an action if that action will have absolutely no result/effect on the game, you can't say you're using the attack but refuse to do [X]). Both of those phrases are functionally equivalent - they both make action [X] a requirement for the attack's successful execution.

Is this a case of "I've started, so I'll finish" ("I've started to do this action, but oops, there's something I can't do. I'm going to finish what I've done anyway because I've already started to do it")? It makes sense for "I've started, so I'll finish" to apply here, but does it apply for all cases such as this one?

And (you may not be able to answer, but I might as well ask anyway) if "[Do something] in order to use this attack" and "[Do something] or this attack does nothing" mean the same thing, why not just go with one wording and get rid of the other entirely? Of course, the problem with ambiguous wording could be alleviated with "You may [do something]. If you don't, this attack does nothing."

 

[SkittyOnWailord]

Profesco@ That only apply's to the current format rules, if you're playing a regular game with no format rule's then the card rule's apply. For instance bill was a supporter in tournament's and in pokemon event's but during league or regular play you run it by what the card say's, so if it say's it is a trainer then that's how you run it as, if it was supporter bill then that's how you run it as.

That's only partially true. Whether you're playing modified or unlimited you still follow the card's newest text on reprinted cards. That's one reason that people are getting annoyed about the Computor Search reprint. If it ends up as an actual reprint (and you'll be able to use the old one) then it'll effect it in unlimited too. Just like Bill is played as a supported whether you're playing modified or unlimited. They pretty much decided to make Bill useless in unlimited, and they did that on purpose.

Now if you're playing by "house rules" (which isn't an official term in any way) then you can make whatever rules you want. Whether it be playing cards as they were origionally worded or other things like giving Pokemon +30 weakness instead of x2. But playing by your own rules doesn't really apply to questions in this thread.

 

[ven?]

Obviously we play pokemon differently here, we believe that unlimited is played by the text of the card, not by the newest text of that card. If we did it youère way we would anger alot of the newer player's so we don' t and just go by what the card say's instead. That and I find it's to tedious to play by the updated version.

 

[Profesco]

Is this a case of "I've started, so I'll finish" ("I've started to do this action, but oops, there's something I can't do. I'm going to finish what I've done anyway because I've already started to do it")? It makes sense for "I've started, so I'll finish" to apply here, but does it apply for all cases such as this one?

Actually, this is the one I'm not sure I can answer, ahaha. To the best of my knowledge, when you've begun an action you soon realize was incomplete/impossible, the opponent needs to give permission for you to reset the state of the game back to what it would actually be without the mistake (if things have progressed so far that rewinding the game accurately would be impossible, a judge needs to be called over to decide what to do). If you realize that you can't actually complete the action in the middle of trying to complete the action, I would think you're supposed to stop rather than continue. I'm not sure any of that answers your question precisely, though, sorry. =x

And (you may not be able to answer, but I might as well ask anyway) if "[Do something] in order to use this attack" and "[Do something] or this attack does nothing" mean the same thing, why not just go with one wording and get rid of the other entirely? Of course, the problem with ambiguous wording could be alleviated with "You may [do something]. If you don't, this attack does nothing."

Beats me. I think it'd be much simpler to stick to one wording too.

 

[SkittyOnWailord]

Obviously we play pokemon differently here, we believe that unlimited is played by the text of the card, not by the newest text of that card. If we did it youère way we would anger alot of the newer player's so we don' t and just go by what the card say's instead. That and I find it's to tedious to play by the updated version.

So if you go by the actual card's physical text and not any of the updated versions or erratas, then how do you use Rocket's Minefield Gym.

And it's not "my way". It's the way TPCi says to do it. Erratas and updated card text aren't ever made for a specific format like modified or unlimited, otherwise it would get pretty messy if someone with an unlimited deck played someone with a modified deck. Just like in the old days you used to have to draw 2 cards if the oponent mulligans instead of the optional 1 card it is now.

 

[Wishing Star]

Actually, this is the one I'm not sure I can answer, ahaha. To the best of my knowledge, when you've begun an action you soon realize was incomplete/impossible, the opponent needs to give permission for you to reset the state of the game back to what it would actually be without the mistake (if things have progressed so far that rewinding the game accurately would be impossible, a judge needs to be called over to decide what to do). If you realize that you can't actually complete the action in the middle of trying to complete the action, I would think you're supposed to stop rather than continue. I'm not sure any of that answers your question precisely, though, sorry. =x

Oh no, it answers my question pretty much perfectly. I knew about the "rewind when you have taken an illegal action" thing, but since it apparently doesn't apply to the Foul Play-Blue Flare interaction, I guess the players would keep going with the process.

Beats me. I think it'd be much simpler to stick to one wording too.

Eh... the wording ambiguity could also be carried over to Ability-PokéPower-PokéBody ambiguity. Why don't effects that affect PokéPowers affect Abilities if all it is between the two is just a reprint? For example:

Charizard (from made-up set before BW rules)
PokéPower: Trapping Fire - Your opponent can't use any PokéPowers next turn.

Charizard (from made-up set after BW rules)
Ability: Trapping Fire - Your opponent can't use any [Abilities that need to be announced in order to be used] next turn.

And what would "Abilities that need to be announced in order to be used" be replaced with? :/

 

[ven?]

Minefield is worked by confusion's damage, since it say's damage counters so 20 damage. This way it's kept within a minimal amount of damage that can still turn the game around by some small amount and also be nullified by a majority of cards that are currently in (as each card does pretty much have a counter to another). Yes there is playing by what the card say's but there is also a use in making a fair judgement for everyone that play's the game by filling in anything that people may make confusing (for instance I don't play with any kind mulligan rule outside of tournament play). I find it the other way around, that if you were to play by the updated card it wouldn't be as much fun as if you were to change it up and make it challenging by playing by what the card say's. Plus wouldn't what you're also saying be done to how confusion, burn and poison's damage is dealt? Even in unlimited between league to league I find that everyone's unlimited rule's are slightly different regardless of whatever the TPCi say's.

 

[Grizzlegom]

So I just started playing again and I have a ruling question. If I have Meganium (Neo Genesis 11/111) out with this pokepower:

Pokémon Power Wild Growth
As long as Meganium is in play, each Grass Energy card attached to your Grass Pokémon instead provides GrassGrass. This power stops working while Meganium is Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed.

and I'm trying to attack with Tangrowth (Call of Legends 34/95) using

Grind
Does 20 damage times the amount of Energy attached to Tangrowth.

If I have 2 leaf energies attached, should my attack do 40 damage or 80 damage? I wasn't sure if it went by actually physical energies attached or if it went by total number of energies available...Thanks in advance!

 

[Wishing Star]

So I just started playing again and I have a ruling question. If I have Meganium (Neo Genesis 11/111) out with this pokepower:

Pokémon Power Wild Growth
As long as Meganium is in play, each Grass Energy card attached to your Grass Pokémon instead provides GrassGrass. This power stops working while Meganium is Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed.

and I'm trying to attack with Tangrowth (Call of Legends 34/95) using

Grind
Does 20 damage times the amount of Energy attached to Tangrowth.

If I have 2 leaf energies attached, should my attack do 40 damage or 80 damage? I wasn't sure if it went by actually physical energies attached or if it went by total number of energies available...Thanks in advance!

I'm pretty sure it would be 80 base damage. If it meant the number of Energy cards, it'd say "This attack does 20 damage times the amount of Energy cards attached to Tangrowth."

 

[TheFightingPikachu]

I'm thinking of getting back into the TCG after quite a break from it. I've done a bit of research on this Forum, but I'm still left with a lot of questions. In particular, there is one that I'd like to reopen: Can I use my old basic energy in modified format matches?

This was discussed in a thread a while back, but there was no clear consensus among those who posted to answer, and certainly no official source one way or the other.

Basically, I can't even consider going to an official tournament unless I find out. So does anyone know?


I have a second, question that is closely related to the first:

Whether you're playing modified or unlimited you still follow the card's newest text on reprinted cards. That's one reason that people are getting annoyed about the Computor Search reprint. If it ends up as an actual reprint (and you'll be able to use the old one) then it'll effect it in unlimited too. Just like Bill is played as a supported whether you're playing modified or unlimited. They pretty much decided to make Bill useless in unlimited, and they did that on purpose.

A new card called "Pokémon Center," has been released, and it's a Stadium card. A while ago I bought one of the old Pokémon Center cards that was just a Trainer card. Per the above, does this require me to play the old version as the new one, a Stadium with the comparatively-lousy effect listed?

 

[Swagsire]

I'm thinking of getting back into the TCG after quite a break from it. I've done a bit of research on this Forum, but I'm still left with a lot of questions. In particular, there is one that I'd like to reopen: Can I use my old basic energy in modified format matches?

This was discussed in a thread a while back, but there was no clear consensus among those who posted to answer, and certainly no official source one way or the other.

Basically, I can't even consider going to an official tournament unless I find out. So does anyone know?


I have a second, question that is closely related to the first:

A new card called "Pokémon Center," has been released, and it's a Stadium card. A while ago I bought one of the old Pokémon Center cards that was just a Trainer card. Per the above, does this require me to play the old version as the new one, a Stadium with the comparatively-lousy effect listed?

Question the first. I use basic energy that are old all the time. It's a reprint, and is therefore the exact same card.

Question the second. Pokegym has the legal modified card list. Which doesn't appear to list the old card as even legal..Qwaa ;195;

 

[SkittyOnWailord]

Question the first. I use basic energy that are old all the time. It's a reprint, and is therefore the exact same card.

Question the second. Pokegym has the legal modified card list. Which doesn't appear to list the old card as even legal..Qwaa ;195;

Correct. All Basic Energy from any set (not including ones from Worlds decks obviously ) are just fine to use.

As for Pokemon Center. Pokemon R&D have made a special case for that card and that they count as different cards.

 

[Swagsire]

I have a perplexing question. There's a raticate in CF/FS which has "super fang" to bring the opponent down to 10 health. Now, if we attach pluspower, does this automatically knock out the opponent, or will it not apply? Also, would lets say, bouffer only leave bouffalant at 30 hp? Answers I must know Qwaa ;195;

 

[SkittyOnWailord]

I have a perplexing question. There's a raticate in CF/FS which has "super fang" to bring the opponent down to 10 health. Now, if we attach pluspower, does this automatically knock out the opponent, or will it not apply? Also, would lets say, bouffer only leave bouffalant at 30 hp? Answers I must know Qwaa ;195;

Raticate's attack puts damage counters on the Pokemon. Putting damage counters on a Pokemon isn't the same as doing damage. For example putting damage counters on a Pokemon doesn't effect weakness, resistance or effects like Bouffalant's Bouffer (since that only redices damage). But effects like Espeon's Solar Revelation would stop Raticate's Super Fang from doing anything.

As for Pluspower, the attack needs to do damage (and not putting damage counters or other effects) to add the 10 damage.

 

[TheFightingPikachu]

Correct. All Basic Energy from any set (not including ones from Worlds decks obviously ) are just fine to use.

As for Pokemon Center. Pokemon R&D have made a special case for that card and that they count as different cards.

So, just to be sure, that means if I go to an official tournament with my old basic energy cards, I won't get banned at the door and can play just like anyone else? That means as far as basic energy is concerned, I'm set for life!

And thanks for the info about the two Pokémon Center cards. The old one stays banned in modified, yet retains its greater usefulness in unlimited. I think that was the best possible ruling!




I have another question regarding an issue that has confused me ever since I considered it. Plenty of cards say, "This counts as evolving that Pokémon." In most circumstances, the meaning is obvious: duh, of course it counts as evolving that Pokémon! But some possible scenarios involving cards with this phrase can be more confusing. Consider, for example Skyridge Nidoqueen's Evolution Helper Poké-Power. Imagine I'd evolved a given Pokémon once already this turn. Does the phrase "This counts as evolving that Pokémon" prevent me from using that power on that Pokémon? Or does it just mean that everything that usually goes along with evolution (i.e., loss of special conditions) still happen?

 

[SkittyOnWailord]

I have another question regarding an issue that has confused me ever since I considered it. Plenty of cards say, "This counts as evolving that Pokémon." In most circumstances, the meaning is obvious: duh, of course it counts as evolving that Pokémon! But some possible scenarios involving cards with this phrase can be more confusing. Consider, for example Skyridge Nidoqueen's Evolution Helper Poké-Power. Imagine I'd evolved a given Pokémon once already this turn. Does the phrase "This counts as evolving that Pokémon" prevent me from using that power on that Pokémon? Or does it just mean that everything that usually goes along with evolution (i.e., loss of special conditions) still happen?

You can only evelve a Pokemon normally (by playing it from your hand) once per turn. For example you can't have a Charmander in play, evelve it to Charmeleon and then to Charizard in the same turn. The term "This counts as evolving that Pokémon" means you can't evolve that Pokemon the normal way (from your hand) again that turn.
However, card effects can override that. For example you could use that Nidoqueen's PokePower twice in one turn if you had two of them in play. Or you could use Nidoqueen's PokePower and then play Wally's Training that same turn to evolve it again. But you wouldn't be able to use Nidoqueen's PokePower and then evolve that Pokemon again from your hand that turn.

It's kind of hard to explain. Did what I said make sense?

 

[TheFightingPikachu]

You can only evelve a Pokemon normally (by playing it from your hand) once per turn. For example you can't have a Charmander in play, evelve it to Charmeleon and then to Charizard in the same turn. The term "This counts as evolving that Pokémon" means you can't evolve that Pokemon the normal way (from your hand) again that turn.
However, card effects can override that. For example you could use that Nidoqueen's PokePower twice in one turn if you had two of them in play. Or you could use Nidoqueen's PokePower and then play Wally's Training that same turn to evolve it again. But you wouldn't be able to use Nidoqueen's PokePower and then evolve that Pokemon again from your hand that turn.

It's kind of hard to explain. Did what I said make sense?

Oh yes, that made a lot of sense. Your explanation even added another important distinction that I hadn't thought of: There's a definite difference between using a power like that after you evolve normally (which works because the power isn't normal) and trying to use the power first and then evolve normally (which doesn't because "this counts as evolving that Pokémon"). Thanks!




Okay, now I have a really weird question. I've enjoyed using strategies involving powers like Sceptile's Energy Trans. Its effect is clear: as often as you want during your turn you can move a Grass Energy card from one of your Pokémon to another. If a card happened to be providing Grass Energy, it seemed obvious that it would not count as a Grass Energy card.

However, several new cards that I like and am thinking of using have Abilities with different wording. They are Klinklang's Shift Gear and Hydreigon's Dark Trance. They read almost exactly the same except with different Energy types (Metal and Darkness respectively). They say you are allowed to move "a Metal Energy" or "a Darkness Energy" as often as you like; they do not specify "Energy card."

This wording difference gave me an idea that is almost too good to be true. Would either of these Abilities be allowed to move a Blend Energy (GFPD with Hydreigon's or WLFM with KlingKlang's)? Each of these cards does provide the Energy type listed on the power, but does that mean that for the purposes of those Abilities it would count as "a Metal Energy" or "a Darkness Energy"? (I could have asked the same question about Rainbow Energy, but since it doesn't look like it's modified legal right now, I'd only be able to try it in unlimited.) I realize it could easily be that "Energy" and "Energy card" may very well be intended to mean the same thing in that context. But since it might not, I had to ask. Any info?

 

[SkittyOnWailord]

Okay, now I have a really weird question. I've enjoyed using strategies involving powers like Sceptile's Energy Trans. Its effect is clear: as often as you want during your turn you can move a Grass Energy card from one of your Pokémon to another. If a card happened to be providing Grass Energy, it seemed obvious that it would not count as a Grass Energy card.

However, several new cards that I like and am thinking of using have Abilities with different wording. They are Klinklang's Shift Gear and Hydreigon's Dark Trance. They read almost exactly the same except with different Energy types (Metal and Darkness respectively). They say you are allowed to move "a Metal Energy" or "a Darkness Energy" as often as you like; they do not specify "Energy card."

This wording difference gave me an idea that is almost too good to be true. Would either of these Abilities be allowed to move a Blend Energy (GFPD with Hydreigon's or WLFM with KlingKlang's)? Each of these cards does provide the Energy type listed on the power, but does that mean that for the purposes of those Abilities it would count as "a Metal Energy" or "a Darkness Energy"? (I could have asked the same question about Rainbow Energy, but since it doesn't look like it's modified legal right now, I'd only be able to try it in unlimited.) I realize it could easily be that "Energy" and "Energy card" may very well be intended to mean the same thing in that context. But since it might not, I had to ask. Any info?

Yes, that would work. Cards like Rainbow Energy provide all types of energy at all times (while in play). So that means you would be able to use Powers/Abilities like Sceptile's Energy Trans or Klinklang's Shift Gear to move them.

 

[Mukuro]

Just a quick question

Can I play a Blaziken Level X onto, a for instance Eric's Blaziken / SP Blaziken?

 

[SkittyOnWailord]

Can I play a Blaziken Level X onto, a for instance Eric's Blaziken / SP Blaziken?

I assume you mean Blaziken FB Lv.X? Blaziken FB Lv.X says

Put this card onto your Active Blaziken FB. Blaziken FB Lv. X can use any attack, Poké-Power, or Poké-Body from its previous Level.

The part I bolded indicates that yoiu have to put it on a Blaziken FB and not any other kind of Blaziken. Just like how you can't put Raichu Lv.X on a Surfing Pikachu. Because it says to put it on "Pikachu" and Surfing Pikachu isn't the same as Pikachu.