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Pokémon Trainer Anime Canon Tier List

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by _Dog, Jul 11, 2016.

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  1. Ash-Pikachu

    Ash-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    You're flat-out assuming that battle experience has precedence over something that's been portrayed and explicitly shown to us.

    Not every pokemon improves at the same rate and this is something you keep expecting me to believe without any evidence. Ash's Goodra had minimal battle experience yet it competed and performed very well against Bisharp. Ash's Gible lacked battle experience, but it still garnered respect from even Tobias. Ash-Greninja lacks battle experience compared to the older pokemon yet it's established to be Ash's strongest pokemon to date.

    How did we arrive to that conclusion? Based on synthesizing information in the anime.

    So what if Mega Charizard X had more training? Ash-Greninja derives a large portion of it's power through Ash's empowered emotions and determination to grow even stronger. The greater that feeling, the greater Ash-Greninja's power is. Ash-Greninja certainly deviates from the standard norm.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  2. Navin

    Navin MALDREAD

    PSA: Ugh, I know I'm guilty of being the one who started and spread this tier system around, but when you say "X Pokemon is tier Y", that means absolutely nothing without having a reference point. You can tier-rank easily Ash's Pokemon because it's relative to Ash, but when that extends to other characters', it becomes unclear.


    Anyway, these are what I originally posted in another thread.


  3. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    Ash may beat Cameron with Krookodile,Levanny,and Palpitoad but if we put Stephan or Tierno up against Cameron they'd have a hard time taking out Cameron's Hydriegon and Lucario as it would take a group effort to take both of them out.

    Trip has already proven that he's a much better battler than Bianca and Stephan on many occasions,Stephan has Sawk,Zebstrika,and Liepard while Trip has Serperior,Frilish,Lampent,Conkeldurr,Tranquil,and Vanillite.

    Only problem I had with the Ash/Morrison battle was Morrison's Gligar defeating Ash's Grovyle then tying with Swellow.
  4. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    Charizard will always be Ash's strongest pokemon period

    AG's power is from ash's emotions but you make it seem like it could take on any pokemon out there whether it be Cynthia's Garchomp,Tobias's Latios/Darkrai,or Flint's Infernape and that's not true at all.
  5. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    That's debatable. Pikachu at his prime can give Charizard a run for his money. And Ash-Greninja has already been catching up in terms of power. The issue is that we have not seen Ash's Charizard truly prove itself to be the powerhouse that it was back in the past while Pikachu and Greninja's performance are relatively recent.

    For the record, you cannot separate normal Greninja from Ash-Greninja. Simply because Ash-Greninja is a natural phenomenon that cannot be removed so easily, just like in the games (which is what is giving Smogon the headache of classifying Ash-Greninja) and Ash would never want to hold back the potential power when fighting his greatest opponents.
  6. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    Pretty sure Pikachu hit its prime towards the beginning of BF unless you're speaking of Hax Pikachu where it's power spontaneously sky rocketed against Regice/Latios.

    Even if what you said is true about Greninja I'd still place Charizard as his strongest because of all the development,experience,training,and battles it's been through.
  7. Ash-Pikachu

    Ash-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    Based on what? Writers already cemented Pikachu's supremacy when he took down Regice and proceeded to stalemate Latios who defeated two of Ash's most renowned fighters (Swellow and Sceptile).

    Ash-Greninja was literally the best, period. He exhibited the best feats to date when he managed to pressure an actual champion and nearly stalemate a pokemon who mauled through 10 Mega Pokémon including Malva's Mega Houndoom. I'm not saying Ash-Greninja can take down everyone, but simply denying that he rivaled Mega Charizard X's power when the anime illustrated just that is pure bias.
  8. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    You give Ash's Charizard a keystone and it's undisputedly the strongest hands down.

    If your only reason for putting Pikachu over Charizard,Sceptile,Infernape,and Snorlax is because of the PIS battles with Regice/Latios then I'd have to just give you the Dikembe Mutombo finger wag on that one.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  9. Ash-Pikachu

    Ash-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    Okay and we weren't talking about a hypothetical Mega Charizard.

    Regice wasn't a PIS battle while Pikachu's involvement in the battle with Tobias was written for a specific reason. The fact that Pikachu was even involved in the battle speaks volumes of how much the writers value Pikachu and it's clear that placing Sceptile and Swellow in the same battle while suffering a loss at the hands of Latios was used to cement Pikachu's strength.

    That said, since you placed Alain's Charizard on par with Ash's Charizard, let me remind you about how Pikachu just ran up to Charizard, struck him with a quick attack and and a preemptive thunderbolt that Charizard couldn't even react to even though Pikachu was severely crippled. Had Pikachu been absolutely fresh and had not been worn down from battling two pseudo legendaries, then Pikachu would've forced Alain to use Mega Charizard X.

    Certainly not a coincidence that Pikachu was forced to be crippled by battling two pokemon just so that the writers could reserve mega evolution for Greninja for a climactic battle.
  10. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!


    Get out!
  11. Ash-Pikachu

    Ash-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    Okay, agree to disagree. :)
  12. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!



  13. Ash-Pikachu

    Ash-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    All right. Has nothing to do what I said, but all right.
  14. snorlax512

    snorlax512 Well-Known Member

    How is Charizard stronger than Ash-Greninja.
    Just because you think Charizard should be stronger doesn't mean it is.
  15. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Ash keeping Pikachu in against Stteelix even though matching up against a ground type is what cost Pikachu against Katie. Torkoal loosing to a Steelix despite having a subplot of overcoming the Steelix species. The Gligar stuff as you mentioned. None of this would have had to happen if they just had a normal match, but no they decide to Make Morrison (a hyper, instinctive trainer who loves battling) randomly get cold feat when he faces Ash (and they didn't even know eacother for that long). If the writers wanted this subplot, why couldn't they just do this before the match.

    Again we haven't seen any of Trip's Pokémon battle late game except Serperior so it's harder to judge. That Serperior was competent though, so maybe your right for this case.

    I do see Tierno's Blastoise beating Hydreigon in a close fight. While Raichu wouldn't beat Lucario, it could do significant damage especially with rain dance active. The way I see it is that Morrison, Barry and Cameron all fit the extremely hyper spirited trainer role, but Barry actually uses strategy (spikes) so he's slightly over Cameron and Morrison placing them all in B.
  16. Kazuki Mirai

    Kazuki Mirai Well-Known Member

    To be fair, Pikachu has been a glass cannon. And will always be. He has the power and speed but... not the durability. It's even by pure determination it only manage to make it far against Regice and Latios.
  17. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Testimony from a reliable source is a valid form of evidence. Ash is the most reliable source when it comes to his Pokémon. From Ash's statement in XYZ 33, the fairest interpretation is that the peak AG team wouldn't beat Kalos, but as we both agree the 2 are very close in strength. The peak Heoenn team is significantly above the HL Hoenn team primarily because of Sceptile's (and Pikachu's) substantial increase in power. The HL Hoenn team had a very close match with Tyson. The peak Hoenn team would likely win quite comfortably (4-6). With respect to Sawyer, his Slaking would match up well against Hariyama (unless your telling me Hariyama can tank quadruple the power of its moves especially Focus Punch). Aegeslash could handle Metagross (Tyson's going to have a much harder time countering King's Shield). Salamence can definitely handle Shiftry at the very least. Clawitzer takes Donphan. Slurpuff can't beat Tyson's Sceptile but could still deal some damage by getting a Flamethrower in before fainting. The feat of being able to freely direct Frenzy Plant is far more than just better production values. Paul's Torterra was shown to be able to freely direct Stone Edge but could only launch Frenzy Plant in a singular trajectory. Mega Sceptile also has an advantage over Meowth as 1 of Meowth's moves (Thunderbolt) would have no effect. I think the match would be close but Sawyer's winning. Just because you can't accept Sawyer's rapid progression doesn't mean you can ignore it.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  18. snorlax512

    snorlax512 Well-Known Member

    Yes it is. You'll need more than two tier 2's to take down Sawyer's mega Sceptile.

    Donphan's rollout got stopped by a ****ing Swellow, and you think it would go through Sawyer's frenzy plant? Stop kidding yourself.

    Detect allows you to dodge a few moves, but after that it will fail. Sawyer's Frenzy plant is literally non-stop.

    It is more than just newer animation. The writers intentionally established mega sceptile's strength by demonstrating him 1-2 shot every opponent before AG. They made it clear on Pikachu and Blastoise how brutal his frenzy plant is. Tierno also said "How is frenzy plant so strong?" during his battle against AG.

    I'm not saying AG is the only Pokemon that can counter it. I'm saying Tyson's Pokemon do not have the speed or power to deal with it. If AG's cut wasn't so powerful towards the end he would have been flattened as well.

    This is not an excuse. Pikachu' power does not fluctuate during the same battle, and KL Pikachu was undoubtedly superior to HL Pikachu. He had already battled before, but it was quite clear that he wouldn't have stood a chance even if he wasn't tired.

    Based on AG using double team at the start, which got immediately obliterated by the vines?

    Torkoal only had one win before facing Tyson. That is an appaling record considering he had 4 battles. His win over Shiftry just shows that Shiftry is weak.

    I don't recall saying every trainer had E4 Pokemon lmao.
    Does it matter if Sawyer's other Pokemon can't beat Metagross, Meowth or Hariyama 1v1 (although I think Slaking can beat Hariyama 1v1)? Mega sceptile can take all three by itself.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  19. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    For the record, while I gave the positions for 7 different Ash teams, the Ash that's commanding them is the same (has OS -> AG -> DP -> XY progression). I'll state what those teams are over here in case anyone isn't familiar.

    Pikachu, Charizard, Snorlax, Sceptile, Infernape/Baze Infernape, Greninja/Ash-Greninja

    -Best Kanto/OI
    Pikachu, Charizard, Snorlax, Bulbasaur, Kingler, Squirtle

    -Best Johto
    Pikachu, Heracross, Quilava, Bayleef, Noctowl, Donphan

    -Peak Hoenn
    Pikachu, Sceptile, Swellow, Corphish, Glalie, Torkoal

    Pikachu, Infernape/Blaze Infernape, Gliscor, Buizel, Gible, Staraptor or Torterra

    -Best Unova
    Pikachu, Krookodile, Pignite, Leavanny, Palpitoad, Snivy or Boldore

    Pikachu, Greninja/Ash-Greninja, Hawlucha, Talonflame, Goodra, Noivern
  20. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    It's hard to argue against my claim seeing as to how Charizard was always portrayed as Ash's main powerhouse since OS and went through more training than any of Ash's Aces.
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