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Pokémon VGC 2016 Ruleset Change

EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
On a different note. I had a few VGC 16 matches with a few people on my friends list. Mainly a girl called Miono. It was very interesting seeing how much damage thing can take. Also the amount of times precipice blades missed was phenomenal.

Brave Groudon under trick room outspeeds and OHKO's Ferrothorn too.

Just my two cents.

The accuracy of Precipice Blades is why many people are running Gravity on a teammate, EQ instead (if they have immunities or Wide Guard on the team), or runnning mixed/full special with Earth Power.

Also, did you mean Quiet Camerupt? Brave Groudon does not outspeed Ferrothorn under TR.

I have seen the JPN VGC16 sample teams on nugget bridge, it was funny to see someone actually bringing along Golduck and Shedninja. Golduck also had Soak in its disposal which can be used on Shedninja for shenanigans.

The pokemon you mentioned have indeed good positions in this metagame, as an VGC player I can tell they will function well.. I would also like to give Clefairy a mention since Friend Guard seems really good with the majority of legends with there great natural Bulk.

And no, parasect seems like a great idea actually in conjunction with Primal Kyorge, first it blocks fire moves which parasect hates and gets recovery aswell.. I have seen people run Quiet Kyorge's so the trick room setting seems great with each other. I would say give it a go and let us know how you experciened using parasect xD

Mega Scizor also seems quite strong in this metagame with Kyorge as partner, the natural bulk is very appreciated and is able to shrug of Dragon acsent from Ray and after a sword dance it can kill Ray with bullet punch next turn. Also.. since every legendary mons carries Protect, feint is such a great move imo. Not to mention that it gives a nice answer towards Xerneas too.

Regarding the synchroniser tho, is there any influence on how much max iv's it has?
say a 6V synchroniser gives it an higher chance to encounter a mon with the same nature + More max iv's ?

I did mention Clefairy, but Friend Guard is an important distinction to make of why it may even be used over Clefable. Personally, I prefer Unaware Clefable, especially since you aren't locked into holding Eviolite. Sitrus, Rocky Helmet, or (my favorite) Safety Goggles all increase Clefable's usefulness.

So after a few dozen battles with Parasect, I love it, and I'm pleasantly surprised how well the team has done (into the 1400s already on Showdown, but I'm really hoping that we have a ladder on Battle Spot once the current season is up). I actually am using Mega Scizor based on your idea too, and I'm loving what it can do. I'm still working on the 4th moveslot for him though...Bug Bite just doesn't have great coverage (other than against Cres), and Knock Off is weak when so many Pokemon had mega stones and orbs. I may test out Superpower, but Aerial Ace has been pretty good so far after the boost.

Synchronizers unfortunately have no effect on the IVs of encountered Pokemon.
 

Alatar VGC

House Greyjoy
The accuracy of Precipice Blades is why many people are running Gravity on a teammate, EQ instead (if they have immunities or Wide Guard on the team), or runnning mixed/full special with Earth Power.

Also, did you mean Quiet Camerupt? Brave Groudon does not outspeed Ferrothorn under TR.

My Mega Camperupt is Quiet.

I've been running EQ with a partner with Wide Guard on my Primal G. I know, Gravity. But I don't want to muck around when I could attack. lol.

Funny. My Brave Ferrothorn was oustpeed and OHKO'd by a Primal G with Fire Punch under trick room. I was very surprised tbh.
 
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EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
My Mega Camperupt is Quiet.

I've been running EQ with a partner with Wide Guard on my Primal G. I know, Gravity. But I don't want to muck around when I could attack. lol.

Funny. My Brave Ferrothorn was oustpeed and OHKO'd by a Primal G with Fire Punch under trick room. I was very surprised tbh.

I asked if you meant Mega Camerupt (instead of Primal Groudon) because M-Camerupt could have outsped Ferrothorn and KO'd under TR, but its absolutely impossible for Ferrothorn to be outsped by P-Groudon under TR unless there was some other factor in play. Primal Groudon with a Brave nature and 0spd IV only reaches a speed of 85, while a Brave Ferrothorn even with a 31spd IV is a 36. Either there was some other factor in play (you Icy Winded a couple times, had Tailwind up, Groudon had been Glared, Quash was used, etc.) or you saw it wrong :/
 

Alatar VGC

House Greyjoy
I asked if you meant Mega Camerupt (instead of Primal Groudon) because M-Camerupt could have outsped Ferrothorn and KO'd under TR, but its absolutely impossible for Ferrothorn to be outsped by P-Groudon under TR unless there was some other factor in play. Primal Groudon with a Brave nature and 0spd IV only reaches a speed of 85, while a Brave Ferrothorn even with a 31spd IV is a 36. Either there was some other factor in play (you Icy Winded a couple times, had Tailwind up, Groudon had been Glared, Quash was used, etc.) or you saw it wrong :/

Tailwind. >.< That was it. Ugh, sorry to confuse you :S
 

EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
Tailwind. >.< That was it. Ugh, sorry to confuse you :S

Hey no problem. I don't think your Ferrothorn was Brave then though if Tailwind was the only factor, as you still should have gone first under Trick Rooom.

How has Ferrothorn done so far for you? It seems to absolutely need the cover of the rain in this format, but appears to do pretty well against Kyogre teams (it's given my team some trouble a couple times).
 

bobandbill

Winning Smile
Staff member
Super Mod
I don't know them, but I reckon I could work it out. Given 3 are already perfect, you just care about the remaining three stats and what is the chance of those being a value of 31. With 5IVs, If you don't care _which_ of the 5 stats are perfect, then it's 3 choose 2 (from three stats, choose combinations where two are perfect), times the chance of two stats being perfect and the other being any other value (assuming you're unhappy with an IV of 30 =p).

Here, that's 3 * (1/32)^2 * (31/32)^1... giving you a touch under 0.3% chance. As for 6IV, that's just (1/32)^3, or 0.003%. Feeling lucky? :V

(4 IV without accounting for the chance of the other two stats being alright = 8.7%, just a 'plain' 3IV legendary is 90.9%.)[/maths]
 

EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
Has anyone tried M-Lucario? He seems like he might be solid against things like Xerneas and Kangaskhan, but struggle against the primals. I kinda wanna try him out some since we can't really use him in any other major legal formats other than smogon ubers.

On a side note...I've noticed a few people mentioning difficulty with SRing for legends. I highly recommend checking out Nugget Bridge's trade forums if you're getting frustrated. I have a pretty good list of XY/ORAS-caught competitive legends as well, and would absolutely be willing to help out anyone who is stuck trying to get a good competitive legend. For anyone concerned with hacks or anything like that, I've gotten a lot of them over at Nugget Bridge, and the trade shops there are very reliable, as many well-known trainers are using these same legends. I've used a number of these online in rating battles on battle spot, as well as live tournaments like regionals and PCs, and never had any trouble, so I trust the Pokemon I've received and believe everything I have is legit based on the fact that they've passed hack checks in place for VGC.

If anyone needs something, feel free to PM me or check out my trading list in either the shiny trading thread or the event trading thread! Don't worry if you don't have something I'm "specifically looking for" from my post, we can work something out. I would rather just see more people participate in VGC and the format continue to grow :)
 

Psynergy

Strong Winds
Staff member
Super Mod
Mega Lucario was always a tough Mega to run in 2015 so I'm not sure if it's much better off here. Base 112 is a pretty good Speed tier though still outsped by Rayquaza and Salamence which is rough. Also relying on Iron Tail to OHKO Xerneas is shaky. Any Mega not named Kangaskhan, Rayquaza, Salamence, Gengar and Mawile (who is definitely not as good as people think it is) seems really hard to justify, though the beauty of this format comes with figuring out what actually works so maybe it has a place somewhere. If Aaron Zheng can do well with a Timid max Speed Palkia running Trick Room then there's probably room for a lot of success here. Though in fairness as long as you're running any legendary alongside one of the Hoenn trio or Xerneas you can probably get away with quite a few things in this format.

Also yeah while I'm not shooting down our own trading forums here, Nugget Bridge naturally has great suppliers for VGC legendaries. I've actually got a close friend in one of them so I have no issue getting the legendaries I need but yeah, difficulty in obtaining legendaries should not be a hindrance to anyone legitimately interested in this format.
 

EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
Mega Lucario was always a tough Mega to run in 2015 so I'm not sure if it's much better off here. Base 112 is a pretty good Speed tier though still outsped by Rayquaza and Salamence which is rough. Also relying on Iron Tail to OHKO Xerneas is shaky. Any Mega not named Kangaskhan, Rayquaza, Salamence, Gengar and Mawile (who is definitely not as good as people think it is) seems really hard to justify, though the beauty of this format comes with figuring out what actually works so maybe it has a place somewhere. If Aaron Zheng can do well with a Timid max Speed Palkia running Trick Room then there's probably room for a lot of success here. Though in fairness as long as you're running any legendary alongside one of the Hoenn trio or Xerneas you can probably get away with quite a few things in this format.

No question it would be a very niche role. I got the idea based off an Iron Tail one on Alex Ogloza's YouTube channel, but I wasn't thrilled about the accuracy either. Bullet Punch unfortunately is a 2HKO on Xerneas, and Lucario can't find turns to set up a Swords Dance like Scizor often can. Interestingly enough though, Flash Cannon has a good chance to OHKO Xerneas IF it isn't running any bulk (some aren't) and IF it hasn't setup already, and even with some moderate bulk it's roughly a 50/50 chance, so a little prior damage or a priority move follow-up can finish it off:

252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 200-236 (99 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Again, very niche, and you have to play it right (your own Fake Out or support to Protect Lucario from Fake Out, etc.) to get Xerneas before the +2 boost, but it could be fun to try.

Mawile isn't the best mega, but it is still very good since it does have a good matchup against many top Pokemon (Kang, Ray, Xerneas), though just as bad a matchup against both Primals typically.

M-Mawile's Sucker Punch next to a Yveltal is actually very interesting though (keep in mind both attacks are Dark Aura-boosted):
252+ Atk Huge Power Dark Aura Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 77-91 (37.1 - 43.9%)

252 SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 130-153 (62.8 - 73.9%)
0- Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 87-103 (42 - 49.7%) (Timid Groudon with a 0 atk IV)
0- Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 133-157 (64.2 - 75.8%) (Adamant Groudon)



252+ Atk Huge Power Dark Aura Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Kyogre: 124-146 (59.9 - 70.5%)

252 SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 79-95 (38.1 - 45.8%)
0- Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Kyogre: 117-138 (56.5 - 66.6%) (Kyogre with a -Atk nature and 0 Atk IV)

Threatening the KO in one turn on either Primal is impressive. I'm sure M-Kangaskhan's Sucker Punch can dish out big damage next to Yveltal too, but Mawile threatens Xerneas more.
 
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Psynergy

Strong Winds
Staff member
Super Mod
My issue with Mawile is that even the good matchups it has against Xerneas and Rayquaza aren't guaranteed to be in its favor, since HP Ground and Overheat/Fire Blast are very realistic concerns and the high probability of these two being paired with Groudon/Kyogre makes this less simple than sending Mawile out against them. Unlike the other good Megas, it also needs support to be effective so while it's good, it's not as great as people have been hyping it. Though to be fair there are a lot of solid Pokemon that people have been overstating the effectiveness of (Crobat, Salamence, Golduck).
 
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