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Pokémon X & Y's Effect on the Metagame

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Minedreigon

A monument to all your sins
Despite Fire resisting Fairy, it really won't help that much as 1) Fairy types still have coverage moves and are not stuck exclusively to using Fairy moves and 2) most Fire types have thin defenses. Heatran isn't going to ruin Fairy types anymore than it ruins Fire types, as coverage moves actually do exist, plus with the extra weaknesses due to STeel getting nerfed, Heatran has more to worry about than usual. It's really nonsensical to declare what playstyles will be good in a metagame (including what weathers will be good) until we know exactly how they're going to be affected by the XY metagame. We don't know whether some really improved weather sweepers will get thrown in, new abilities that are good in weather, etc. This is also beside the point that current Fairy types like Azumarill have a cake walk with Fire types, and MegaMawile certainly doesn't do Venusaur any favors. Just with the few new things we do know, the examples you listed already have decent counters, and we haven't even seen the majority of Pokemon that will be released, which could easily hold many more as well as many game changing factors.

To be honest, hypothetical discussion is relatively pointless in this thread as we have no idea what changes will be brought in the games. Since this really isn't an XY speculation thread, I'd suggest staying away from the more hypothetical arguments and stick with the facts that we already have and make posits off of those. Making the jump from Fires resisting Fairy to saying Sun is going to outclass Rain is trying to bridge a gap that is in noways implied by the single fact of a type resistance and one sweeper having a super effective STAB move.

To sum this all up, it is still far too early to tell whether any playstyle or weather will outshine another due to the lack of information that we currently have.

Maybe, but with azumarill being fairy water it seems rain will have another way to kill dragons. Im also thinking maybe lucario could become very dangerous being able to super effect fairy with bullet punch/flash cannon. Ferro is now less of a wall along with skarmory, which makes room for other hazard setters to shine. Im also happy jirchi is being nerfed by this steel phenomenon. (it was so cheap) Also, I think gengar will become much more dangerous atm.
 

Mr. Reloaded

Cause a pirate is free
So in an attempt to nerf Steel you accidentally buff up a Pokemon that's already good. Gengar.
Metagross is going to fall, Jirachi will need to be more cautious, Shiftry will raise (especially in the sun), Honedege isn't as nearly as good as we thought.
Sharpedo will become a threat. I not really sure why they deemed Steels OP, Timid/Choice Specs/ Eruption Typhlosion outspeeds and 2 hit ko's/ OHKO's just about steel type that's not scarfed, or if their name is Heatran.
Fairy looks like it'll be good, I mean you switch into Draco's, Dragons will rely on cover moves.
It's definitely a interesting new game...
 

Barbeller

Scatter Brained
Moving on to our next major threat is Tyranitar. Now that Steels have lost their Dark resistance, this gives Tyranitar the ability to Pursuit many Steels with impunity, with Choice Band Tyranitar being able to OHKO Jirachi with Pursuit if it attempts to switch, and still do enormous damage even if it doesn't (yes, I know Jirachi is getting the brunt of the abuse here, but bear me out lol). Several other Steels will also have some worries about Pursuit/Crunch, including our friend Honedge who used to have the great typing of Ghost/Steel, the typing not being so great anymore. I also see Ghost and Dark coverage becoming a little more common to 1) hit Steels and 2) hit Ghosts which will be a bit more threatening this upcoming generation.

To move on to the Pokemon that took the hardest hits from this announcement, we'll start with the Psychic/Steels. Jirachi, Metagross, and Bronzong now all have two more additional weaknesses, both being easily exploitable and extremely damaging. Jirachi is going to take the hardest blow, as it was an extremely commonly seen Pokemon in OU this generation, whereas next generation it will struggle a little. It does have the advantage of being able to hit Fairy types hard, but I'm not sure this will negate the enormous weaknesses it now has. Metagross, who has been in danger of falling from OU for months, will likely be finally pushed over the edge into either BL or UU, depending on what sort of Pokemon also end up in these tiers. Bronzong will also take quite the blow, not being the great defensive Pokemon with very few weaknesses anymore, and instead having very common ones.
I kinda agree with you that the Steel/Psychics have been utterly obliterated, and kinda disagree. Although it is true that, yes, they are now going to be ghost weak. But are they going to be Pursuit trapped and killed? Not by Tyranitar or Scizor at least (well, Bronzong will, but I won't consider it from now in because it doesn't really matter). Jirachi easily out speeds all TTar but ScarfTar, and it can Iron Head it to oblivion - and ScarfTar only does 70% with SE Crunch so even it can't really 'revenge' against Jirachi. Rachi can also easily invest in defence to deal with Scizor, or it could run Fire Punch. Metagross can use its Meteors to smash the Tyrannosaurus Rex, or it can Bullet Punch it. Meta gross can find trouble with Scizor, but I would imagine it will find a way to bypass Scizor.
So, if the next generation holds good Pursuit trappers, then Metagross and Jirachi are screwed. If not they'll be fine. So you really could be right or wrong at this point (at least, in my eyes).
Metagross will fall to UU anyway because of the power creep, not because of the dark weakness (although the ghost weakness sucks).

i know it's a big difference and it probably won't happen, but it isn't impossible because smogon is really dumb sometimes
Yah not that dumb. I mean seriously, have you seen the suspect test threads? Smogonites will come up with the idea of just banning the stone within seconds. After all, it came up within 2/3 posts of non-serious discussion here.

To be precise, of the currently existent Pokemon, Tyranitar, Bisharp, Krookodile, Skuntank, and Drapion all resist Gengar's STABs. I have no doubt that Tyranitar will still be popular in 6th Gen, and Bisharp might rise due to its newfound STAB coverage. Drapion and Skuntank have the advantage of not being weak to Focus Blast, so they might be rise a little if given some new toys, but I don't have as much hope for those two. Either way, Gengar should still have a few solid defensive checks, but it'll still be a crazy good offensive Pokemon.
I think that Tyranitar will become a lot more offensive in XY, as Dark offence will be buffed and Dark defender nerfed. I think that this means the mixed and SR sets will lose viability, while Cruch spam CB and Gengar counter Scarf will become a lot more popular. This change in attitude towards TTar could potentially mean that Sand looses a lot of creativity, or creativity could blossom, idk. But due to the downward spiral of the meta game these past couple gens, I think the former is more likely.

I also agree with you about Bisharp moving up to OU, but I think it would be because of its ability to counter Gengar, rather than because it has abusable moves.

Finally, you know I said about a Grass/Dark Chespin Evolution (as rumoured) that was a defensive behemoth? Well, between them they would resist ever single type except Fight and Rock, which can easily be dealt with. The potential there is delicious. Hopefully, Gamefreak can offset the power creep by adding interesting type combos with GOOD STATS, although that would be out of character for Gamefreak.
 
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Azulart

Shiny Hunter
I do notice that Gamefreak does consider the competive metagame in the next upcoming game metagame.

In the B/w2 competive metagame types like Fire, Bug and poison were unfavorable types.. Fire and Bug for being weak to stealth rocks
and poison due its bad coverage in general. Now comes an new introduced type called Fairy which gives these type a reason to have in your team
and more favorable.

Good job Gamefreak on going to balance the type charts with this new addition, I like it.
 
Well, Bug actually got the short end of the stick since Fairy resists Bug, and Bug's matchups didn't change otherwise. Fire did profit a bit with its newfound resistance, though, and Poison obviously got the Pyroar's lion's share.
 

Connor™

Showstopper
In honesty, I'll be fairly annoyed if all Mega Evolution stones are banned. Mega Evolution will introduce a fun new mechanic to the metagame, even if it does just steepen the already ridiculous power curve.
 

Connor™

Showstopper
Steel has undoubtedly gotten the biggest nerf. Losing two of it's major resistances is a big deal, especially given one of the typing's major utilities was it's access to such a wide range of resistances.

As for the biggest buff, Poison and Ghost are both tied I'd argue. Ghost has become a much more useful attacking type thanks to hitting Steel neutrally (notably, Jirachi super effectively) whereas Poison will see much more valued use as a coverage option due to smacking Fairy.
 

Minedreigon

A monument to all your sins
Steel has undoubtedly gotten the biggest nerf. Losing two of it's major resistances is a big deal, especially given one of the typing's major utilities was it's access to such a wide range of resistances.

As for the biggest buff, Poison and Ghost are both tied I'd argue. Ghost has become a much more useful attacking type thanks to hitting Steel neutrally (notably, Jirachi super effectively) whereas Poison will see much more valued use as a coverage option due to smacking Fairy.

To right. Thanks to poison hitting fairy hard, venusaur will probably be on EVERY SINGLE SUN TEAM. It's definitely a good thing. Gengar will probably be extremely dangerous this meta.
 

Miror

De-le-le wooooooooooop
Staff member
Moderator
So, more new info just rolled in, so here it is:

"Ghost types are no longer affected by moves that prevent fleeing such as Mean Look. Grass Pokémon can't be seeded or affected by moves such as Sleep Powder or Stun Spore. Electric types can no longer be Paralyzed"

"Mega Mewtwo X has an increased Attack stat. Mega Garchomp has an increased Attack and Special Attack stat, but its Speed stat is decreased"

For the first bit, I find this very intriguing that they're changing some of the types even more (even if not resistance-wise). Ghosts being able to escape Mean Look will be a cool gimmick I guess for avoiding Perish Song/Mean Look strategies, but what I'm really wondering is whether or not this will work for abilities like Shadow Tag and Arena Trap. It does say moves, so it's unlikely, but if they could escape from the abilities, it would 1) make Gengar even more OP than it already is and 2) give other Ghosts a new niche. The second part I hope to god also applies to Spore, because it will nerf Breloom at least by a little if Grass types are no longer able to be affected by Powder/Spore-like moves. This would also be quite helpful to use them as status sponges as they could switch in in complete safety on one of these moves. The last actually makes me really happy, as I've never understood why Electric types could be Paralyzed when Fire types can't be Burned and Poison types can't be Poisoned. This will be extremely useful for many Electric Pokemon, making their jobs far easier not having to worry about Paralysis.

The next bit of news is actually very interesting, as it makes both Pokemon take a different route than they usually do. Mega Mewtwo X gets an Attack boost, which will be interesting to see what moves it'll get to abuse it (if any), and whether it'll be more likely to run a purely physical set, or run mixed sets. Mega Garchomp actually comes with a drawback. Even though both of its Attacking stats have been boosted, it lost some amount of Speed. We won't be able to tell exactly how bad this will be for Mega Garchomp until we figure out exactly how much everything is raised/dropped by, but depending on them, Mega Garchomp may've actually been balanced out enough to remain in OU (as prior to this Mega Garchomp would've mashed quite a large amount of the OU tier).

So yeah, info. Have fun.
 

Mr. Reloaded

Cause a pirate is free
Electric types should have never been vulnerable to paralysis in the first place.
And since grass types can now switch into Breloom, we can finally have less people wanting it uber.
MegaGarchomp's speed nerf is acceptable as you basically gave it a massive increase with this mega evolution.
Ghost aren't affected by lock in moves huh... Are they trying to make Gengar a super good Poke or what?
 

Minedreigon

A monument to all your sins
Electric types should have never been vulnerable to paralysis in the first place.
And since grass types can now switch into Breloom, we can finally have less people wanting it uber.
MegaGarchomp's speed nerf is acceptable as you basically gave it a massive increase with this mega evolution.
Ghost aren't affected by lock in moves huh... Are they trying to make Gengar a super good Poke or what?

My God, gengar really is gonna be insane this gen. Scizor, eat your heart out. I do hope it applies to spore, a nerf on spore is needed imo.
 

Furret Master

Champion Seeker
I think the new type changes in terms of immunities for conditions is kind of nice. Giving Grass something is especially nice considering they have a terrible time defensively, so giving them a boost like that is helpful. Electric being immune to paralysis makes so much sense. The Ghost one is a bit odd, but not too bad, I suppose.

All I can say is that Dragons got kind of screwed, but not into being useless. Still, I feel bad on how much they are targeted (not completely without reason, I understand that). As people have already said, Scizor is going to be even more abused in the gen. :mad: Though he is still cool.
 

Miror

De-le-le wooooooooooop
Staff member
Moderator
I'm pretty sure it does apply to Spore. So this is good news, it will give teams an easier way to check Breloom.

Yeah, the officially released type chart that had the information says "Grass-type Pokemon are immune to Leech Seed and powder and spore moves," not going into specifics like Serebii (which makes Serebii exclude the very obvious Spore)
 

Kamran11

Well-Known Member
Quick question . Do you guys think its a good idea to start playing pokemon competitively when x & y comes out since so much is changing ?
 

Aurath8

Well-Known Member
Quick question . Do you guys think its a good idea to start playing pokemon competitively when x & y comes out since so much is changing ?

I'd give it some time for the metagame to actually form before jumping in, which takes months to happen.

Alternatively, you could choose to play, but you'd have to create most of the movesets and strategies all yourself since you have no-one else to draw inspiration from. I've never played near the start of a given generation so I don't know how good or bad it is to do that.
 

Moonclawz

Aura Trainer
Quick question . Do you guys think its a good idea to start playing pokemon competitively when x & y comes out since so much is changing ?

It will be a really wild ride at the start of the metagame as there are so many mechanic changes. Expect to see a lot of variety both with Pokemon and with movesets. I would jump right in just to see what kinds of Pokemon and strategies people are using. The beginning of the metagame might also be a good time to use your favorite lower tier Pokemon and see how they do, if they've gotten more or less useful.
 

Kamran11

Well-Known Member
It will be a really wild ride at the start of the metagame as there are so many mechanic changes. Expect to see a lot of variety both with Pokemon and with movesets. I would jump right in just to see what kinds of Pokemon and strategies people are using. The beginning of the metagame might also be a good time to use your favorite lower tier Pokemon and see how they do, if they've gotten more or less useful.

Thanks , your right ; I will have a lot to learn
 
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