It has likely been discussed already, but how viable do you think weather-centered teams be now with the weather nerf? I wanted to start a Rain team in Gen V, but decided to wait until Gen VI since it was just around the corner, but now I'm not so sure since Rain only lasts 5 turns before having to be reset.
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Pokémon X & Y's Effect on the Metagame
- Thread starter T-Bolt
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Puma Italia
Well-Known Member
Weather teams won't be nearly as popular, but I still think they will be viable. Considering using a Damp Rock will make your rain last 10 turns, and with not as many weather teams, your weather will have a better chance of staying up for the duration of those 10 turns.
Caluminousdugtrio
class on my back
not only that, but apparently it removes all screens on your OPPONENT'S side of the field.
OceanicLanturn
Non non non!
Taunt still works right?
Does anyone know if Sticky Web causes a -1 on the switchin, which means it shows as -1 speed rather than something unseeable. If so, there are some stuff I want to see: Contrary Malamar and Contrary Serperior.
Malamar might be interesting with +1 Speed and +1 Attack/Defense with Superpower and Sticky Web. I might want to try Malamar running the +SDef thing, since getting a free bulk up and having good special defenses makes it good. Unfortunately, its movepool is pretty barren.
Serperior after a Sticky Web becomes pretty darn fast, which is pretty much a free Scarf with Contrary. Then stack up that with Leaf Storm. You get this +6 monster that takes down your team one by one. Maybe a set of Leaf Storm and a Hidden Power of choice. I'm hoping Serperior might get some interesting options from Gen VI to abuse that meaty boosts from Leaf Storm.
Does anyone know if Sticky Web causes a -1 on the switchin, which means it shows as -1 speed rather than something unseeable. If so, there are some stuff I want to see: Contrary Malamar and Contrary Serperior.
Malamar might be interesting with +1 Speed and +1 Attack/Defense with Superpower and Sticky Web. I might want to try Malamar running the +SDef thing, since getting a free bulk up and having good special defenses makes it good. Unfortunately, its movepool is pretty barren.
Serperior after a Sticky Web becomes pretty darn fast, which is pretty much a free Scarf with Contrary. Then stack up that with Leaf Storm. You get this +6 monster that takes down your team one by one. Maybe a set of Leaf Storm and a Hidden Power of choice. I'm hoping Serperior might get some interesting options from Gen VI to abuse that meaty boosts from Leaf Storm.
yeah, that too, but it did that before 6th gen
OceanicLanturn said:
I did say unblockable though, not unstoppable.
Well, I've tried Sticky web out on PS, it does cause a -1 speed drop on the switch in. And since the game mechanics have been researched pretty well by smogon, it probably does so on the games as well. However so far, sticky web hasn't been seen on many pokemon, so it may not be as omnipresent as everyone believes in the gen 6 meta.
Even so, Malamar is still rather slow and needs significant investment in bulk to stack Superpower boosts. Serperior on the other hand has had its Leaf storm and Hidden power nerfed, so that may get in the way of its sweeping.
LinksOcarina
The true master
Dugtrio says hello.
although Dugtrio is fast and has arena trap which is a major plus.
With Protean though, you can't outfox Kecleon anymore, which is a plus on its side. I doubt it will reach OU because of speed really, but it can finally wall people with its SpD stat and fight back.
sparktrain
still rollin
Defog isn't necessarily unstoppable; Taunt still exists... but it is much harder to stop. With Rapid Spin, all you had to do was switch in a Ghost type to spin block, and it could be done at any time provided you had a ghost alive on your team. Taunt works, but your taunter has to be on the field on the same turn the defogger is, AND the taunter has to outspeed.
Another thing which I found interesting is that Knock Off got a buff. It went from a niche 20 bp support move to an almost guaranteed 110 bp move! It's 55 bp, but doubles if the opponent is holding an item (pretty much always). Scarf T-tar can now one-shot Jellicent with a little prior damage 252 Atk Tyranitar (custom) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 332-392 (82.38 - 97.27%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Another thing which I found interesting is that Knock Off got a buff. It went from a niche 20 bp support move to an almost guaranteed 110 bp move! It's 55 bp, but doubles if the opponent is holding an item (pretty much always). Scarf T-tar can now one-shot Jellicent with a little prior damage 252 Atk Tyranitar (custom) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 332-392 (82.38 - 97.27%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
It's actually 65 Power, for the record.
The Imposter
=[
And the doubling isn't confirmed. It might just be an error on Serebii's part.
The attack doing more damage on a target with an item is confirmed from the attack description, though, so it's most likely true. I seem to remember people testing it.
Puma Italia
Well-Known Member
Is it possible to get rid of Sticky Web after it's been used? Would it be spun away with hazards if I used Rapid Spin?
sparktrain
still rollin
Whoops, my bad. The point still stands though, and the damage output in that calc would actually be higher in that case.
Haven't really been playing competitive in around 7ish years so I'm not entirely up to speed with the current metas (6th gen changes not included, as they are fairly new to everyone).
But I'm big fan of any strategy that deals indirect dmg, stuff like Toxic, Entry hazards, abilities that deal dmg other than direct attacks (Iron Barbs on Ferrothorn), ect.
For those that know Yu-Gi-Oh; something like a Burn deck (Effect dmg instead of Battle dmg).
Is a team set up like that possible, if so what does it consist of? Don't know all the stuff that deals indirect dmg here.
Cheerz
But I'm big fan of any strategy that deals indirect dmg, stuff like Toxic, Entry hazards, abilities that deal dmg other than direct attacks (Iron Barbs on Ferrothorn), ect.
For those that know Yu-Gi-Oh; something like a Burn deck (Effect dmg instead of Battle dmg).
Is a team set up like that possible, if so what does it consist of? Don't know all the stuff that deals indirect dmg here.
Cheerz
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Puma Italia
Well-Known Member
With Defog getting rid of hazards on both sides of the field now, I think that teams that rely on hazards are in trouble.
Anything else then besides entry hazards?
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EmphaticPikachu
A tired little girl~
Bulky offense is looking to be the type of team with the least flaws this generation, but a good stall team using passive damage is still perfectly possible.
The Mega-evolutions are the main thing saving the Hyper offense from death, at least, from my speculated knowledge.
Toxic posioning is probably the best thing you're going to run into when it comes to indirect damage.
Also, while Defog helps extremely, entry hazards are still going to be used on a stall team. They will choose pokemon that can continuously set up these entry hazards, even if they get defoged. It's not immpossible, but with how powerful stealth rocks, spikes, toxic spikes, and the new sticky web are, we needed something to limit or reduce entry hazard use.
Really, I think you'd be fine using indirect damage entirely. But the pokemon you can use will be more limited then if you choose something like bulky offense or balanced.
you're gonna need Bulky pokemon with a good number of support options. (blissey, ferrothorn, etc.)
A magic bouncer or rapid spinner would help a lot, since entry hazards will help hyper offensive take you down before you can wither them down.
Err sorry my messege is so broken up.
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Zachmac
Well-Known Member
Well, yeah, Dugtrio is a special case...
I was just saying that Kecleon didn't have the stats to back much strategy up with. But it seems we agree it won't be OU, which was the point I was trying to make.
Competitively, though, I don't think it'll make a difference. Just look at Aqua Ring's usage in gen 5.
Really now?
Yikes. Stall just keeps taking one punch to the face after another...
Personally, I see Hyper Offense getting along just fine, so long as people get used to dealing with sticky web.
Thanks to the nature of the bug type, there probably won't be very many competitively useful pokemon getting their pincers on that move, so they probably won't be serving teams any used except sticky web.
I should also mention that if sticky web is on both sides of the field, the two teams are put back on even grounds again.
Volt Turn is going to love Defog. Even though entry hazards are a lot of help to them, they're even more dangerous when used against them. It's also got protean Greninja to work alongside it now, which will probably be a huge asset.
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