Pokémon X & Y's Effect on the Metagame

[Dr.Chaos]

I just hope we can finally have some bulky Pokemon in X and Y that will shift the balance of super offence of BW2 into more of a balanced metagame. One where a balanced playstyle is actually viable among the metagame. and ban rain and sun too

 

[Caluminousdugtrio]

Just adding, there is the new Fairy Type move Moonblast. Check the official Pokemon X and Y site. Proof is there.

 

[★ Mr. Mime ★]

I don't think Dragons are gonna be rendered completely useless just because of the Fairy Type.

Fairy types were introduced to give balance to the game and to reduce the amount of Dragon types running so rampantly in the competitive field. Everything will be a lot more even now and Dragon types wont be so OP as they are now.

 

[Fabulous Ampharos]

Gardevoir will be rising in the tiers if it becomes Fairy/Psychic. I really hope we don't lose her to a tier like RU, but if it happens it happens.

T-Bolt, it is not supereffective on Dark types..because in the trailer it did not kill a Hydriegon and that is Dragon/Dark. If it was 4x, it would have killed it.

 

[Dragalge]

Gardevoir will be rising in the tiers if it becomes Fairy/Psychic. I really hope we don't lose her to a tier like RU, but if it happens it happens.

T-Bolt, it is not supereffective on Dark types..because in the trailer it did not kill a Hydriegon and that is Dragon/Dark. If it was 4x, it would have killed it.

Or you know, it might be a Silver Wind/40 BP move/just-showing-off-the-move-in-the-game type of thing.

 

[Touché Amoré]

Gardevoir will be rising in the tiers if it becomes Fairy/Psychic. I really hope we don't lose her to a tier like RU, but if it happens it happens.

T-Bolt, it is not supereffective on Dark types..because in the trailer it did not kill a Hydriegon and that is Dragon/Dark. If it was 4x, it would have killed it.

Well if anything is certain at this time I think it is that Gardevoir is probably not going to jump to a high tier just because of its Fairy typing. That alone is not going to make up for all of its draw backs. I feel like someone went over this already but yeah. If it jumps at all I dont see it going higher then RU

 

[Fabulous Ampharos]

Well if anything is certain at this time I think it is that Gardevoir is probably not going to jump to a high tier just because of its Fairy typing. That alone is not going to make up for all of its draw backs. I feel like someone went over this already but yeah. If it jumps at all I dont see it going higher then RU

I never said it would go to OU, I just said RU. Maybe even UU if lucky.

 

[jireh the provider]

So now, I could guess a few potential pokemon having the power of fairy type that may (more likely) or might (less likely) change them.

One comes from Ubers which is Manaphy. If Manaphy gets the fairy typing, theoretically, it may hold a new niche on how to give trouble to the many dragons of Ubers since Manaphy is sadly banned in OU.

Just got that Idea on Bulbapedia's origin of species

Who knows, Maybe Phone too.

But concerning about the fairy type, what would be its competitive role for most of the fairy type pokemon revealed and not yet revealed as a solo type (were not including type combos)?

We know in competitive that the best offensive types are Fighting, Rock, Dragon, Fire, Psychic, Ice, Bug, and few others I forgot. Defensive types are Steel, Water, Normal, Dark, Ghost, etc. Status platforming or versatile types (those that attack, defend, and support well on its own) comes from Grass, Flying, Poison, Electric, etc

 

[Alfred the Second]

The amount of shift the metagame will see depends on whether Fairy will be immune to Dragon or not. Pokemon like Gardevoir will have a hard time even with Fairy typing. It's defense is not anything noteworthy unless you invest on its bulk. If it couldn't OHKO Hydreigon with Fairy Wind, I don't see it OHKOing Salamence either. We will have to wait for new moves, but as of now Gardevoir doesn't stand a chance in the hypothetical Sixth Gen OU.

Azumarill's case depends on if it gets a physical Fairy STAB or not. For some reason I have this strange feeling that almost all Fairy type moves introduced will be special, and even if a Physical is introduced, Azumarill won't get it. In that case, the only good it will do to Azumarill is take a +1 Earthquake from Mence and KO it back with Ice Punch.

Earthquake: 58.66 - 69.05%

This is the damage done by Adamant Haxorus's CB Earthquake. So, if Azumarill receives a dragon type immunity it can serve as a sure fire check for Salamence and Haxorus as it survives a +1 Earthquake with ease and hit back with Ice Punch. If it gets a Physical Fairy STAB, it makes killing much more easier.

Not to mention Aqua Jet can hit the likes of Excadrill (hoping it sixth gen OU), Blaziken and whatever is dropped down from Ubers like a ton of bricks. The only dragon it will face trouble with is Garchomp and Latios which can run Psychic/Psyshock to hit Fair Types

SD Garchomp:Earthquake: 48.51 - 57.42

After SD, it ca straight out KO Azumarill.

Choice Specs Latios Psyshock: 58.66 - 69.05%

But at the same time Azumarill can TROLL Choice Specs Latios and use the chance to dish out some decent damage to whatever comes next with a rain boosted Aqua Jet/Waterfall.

Dragons however could still function well with the likes of Jellicent as support.

Dragons can't blindly Outrage anymore, but with the introduction of Ferrothorn in gen5, they have already stopped blindly using Outrage. Sweeping teams with Dragons is not easy anymore, but the problem has been so since Gen 5 itself and that's why we still have Latios around.

The impact is not as huge as one might think. But who knows, let's wait for more Pokemon to be revealed.

 

[Barbeller]

If the fairy typing is widely distributed, then dragons won't be able to mindlessly spam Dragon moves, which is a massive affect on the metagame. Choice Dragons will be so much harder to use - if fairy is very well distributed then it is possible that they will be unviable completely. Dragons in general may become less useful because the use of Outrage is severely hindered due to the fact it leaves the dragon open to revenge. If you run Dragon Claw, then you miss out on some important OHKOs and 2HKOs. If you run both, then you miss out on coverage, because Dragon Dance/Outrage/Dragon Claw/Coverage still won't be enough to deal with every single fairy.

Jirachi will be the ultimate fairy counter - resists fairy attacks and flinches them back. Scizor is also pretty good, because it can pursuit, as well as generally Bullet Punch them out of existence. Jirachi/Scizor+Dragons will be the best way to Dragon Abuse, if you want to.

Additionally, fairy will have staggering offensive coverage compared to a lot of things. Fighting type is a really common type in OU, Dragon is a really common type (at the moment), and Dark type is also reasonably relevant. Fire and Psychic are also quite common, but they're not exactly everywhere in OU - Fire is awful defensively regardless due to SR weakness. This basically means that it can't cover Psychics - something that is easily dealt with by Pursuit users such as Scizor or Tyranitar. Fairies dominating offensively would rely on good BP moves, as well as good pokemon to back them.

However, the biggest potential change to OU would be if Dream World abilities would be unable to be transferred. This would mean that perma-rain would be impossible, which would be a massive change to the metagame, making it (in my opinion) so much better.

 

[Alfred the Second]

If the fairy typing is widely distributed, then dragons won't be able to mindlessly spam Dragon moves, which is a massive affect on the metagame. Choice Dragons will be so much harder to use - if fairy is very well distributed then it is possible that they will be unviable completely. Dragons in general may become less useful because the use of Outrage is severely hindered due to the fact it leaves the dragon open to revenge. If you run Dragon Claw, then you miss out on some important OHKOs and 2HKOs. If you run both, then you miss out on coverage, because Dragon Dance/Outrage/Dragon Claw/Coverage still won't be enough to deal with every single fairy.

Jirachi will be the ultimate fairy counter - resists fairy attacks and flinches them back. Scizor is also pretty good, because it can pursuit, as well as generally Bullet Punch them out of existence. Jirachi/Scizor+Dragons will be the best way to Dragon Abuse, if you want to.

Additionally, fairy will have staggering offensive coverage compared to a lot of things. Fighting type is a really common type in OU, Dragon is a really common type (at the moment), and Dark type is also reasonably relevant. Fire and Psychic are also quite common, but they're not exactly everywhere in OU - Fire is awful defensively regardless due to SR weakness. This basically means that it can't cover Psychics - something that is easily dealt with by Pursuit users such as Scizor or Tyranitar. Fairies dominating offensively would rely on good BP moves, as well as good pokemon to back them.

However, the biggest potential change to OU would be if Dream World abilities would be unable to be transferred. This would mean that perma-rain would be impossible, which would be a massive change to the metagame, making it (in my opinion) so much better.

That won't happen. Dream World Abilities are essentially part of a Pokemon. These abilities are unlocked through a difficult process but in the end everything is just data to the game system. They won't do something like not allowing DW abilities. The same can't be said for items because they are not a part of the Pokemon.

I agree with Jirachi being a Dragon Check, but remember that Jirachi won't gain much from the Dragon immunity because it basically resists Dragon anyway and would mostly be depending on a move set consisting over Iron Head, Body Slam Wish and Protect. The Sub CM can't exactly hold the dragons back forever. The likes of Garchomp will still deal a good damage to it. Even Salamence can beat Jirachi if sufficient hazard conditions are met.

Like I said, Dragons couldn't mindlessly Outrage in BW either until late game. Because being Ferrothorn bait is painful. The only difference now is an extra set of mons to stop that. It will make the dragons job only a bit more difficult.

EDIT: Slight Mistake on my part. You talked about Jirachi being a Fairy Check. Note that fairy is an addition to most Pokemon. So if they are helpless before becoming Fairy, they will remain helpless and if they can beat Jirachi without Fairy typing they will still beat. Example: Just suppose Victini becomes Fire/Fairy. Would it affect it much?

But yes....the new fairies will have a hard time with Jirachi.

Speaking of which, do you think Game freak will do anything to nerf Stealth Rock. They didn't do it in BW, they might not do in XY either but one can always hope right?

 

[Touché Amoré]

That won't happen. Dream World Abilities are essentially part of a Pokemon. These abilities are unlocked through a difficult process but in the end everything is just data to the game system. They won't do something like not allowing DW abilities. The same can't be said for items because they are not a part of the Pokemon.

I agree with Jirachi being a Dragon Check, but remember that Jirachi won't gain much from the Dragon immunity because it basically resists Dragon anyway and would mostly be depending on a move set consisting over Iron Head, Body Slam Wish and Protect. The Sub CM can't exactly hold the dragons back forever. The likes of Garchomp will still deal a good damage to it. Even Salamence can beat Jirachi if sufficient hazard conditions are met.

Like I said, Dragons couldn't mindlessly Outrage in BW either until late game. Because being Ferrothorn bait is painful. The only difference now is an extra set of mons to stop that. It will make the dragons job only a bit more difficult.

EDIT: Slight Mistake on my part. You talked about Jirachi being a Fairy Check. Note that fairy is an addition to most Pokemon. So if they are helpless before becoming Fairy, they will remain helpless and if they can beat Jirachi without Fairy typing they will still beat. Example: Just suppose Victini becomes Fire/Fairy. Would it affect it much?

But yes....the new fairies will have a hard time with Jirachi.

Speaking of which, do you think Game freak will do anything to nerf Stealth Rock. They didn't do it in BW, they might not do in XY either but one can always hope right?

Well if anything they would have to make things like Rapid Spin and Magic Bounce more widely distributed at least. Taunt as well. Or at least not add to much to the amount of Pokemon that can set up hazards already. And especially not add any new hazards. Imagine a spike variant that burns or paralyzes on contact . . .

 

[Wishing Star]

That won't happen. Dream World Abilities are essentially part of a Pokemon. These abilities are unlocked through a difficult process but in the end everything is just data to the game system. They won't do something like not allowing DW abilities. The same can't be said for items because they are not a part of the Pokemon.

While I won't dispute the fact that it's very, very unlikely, it's entirely possible for X and Y to just invalidate the DW Ability flag (as in, no matter if it's "on", where a Pokémon would have a hidden Ability, or "off", where it wouldn't), it would still get the ability that it would get as if it were off.

Either that, or X and Y could give that same Ability slot (DWA flag "on", Ability #1) a different Ability entirely (all Politoed that had Drizzle in BW having Water Veil, for example).

 

[Alfred the Second]

While I won't dispute the fact that it's very, very unlikely, it's entirely possible for X and Y to just invalidate the DW Ability flag (as in, no matter if it's "on", where a Pokémon would have a hidden Ability, or "off", where it wouldn't), it would still get the ability that it would get as if it were off.

Either that, or X and Y could give that same Ability slot (DWA flag "on", Ability #1) a different Ability entirely (all Politoed that had Drizzle in BW having Water Veil, for example).

That;s entire possible, but I can't see them doing that unless they are very unhappy with the DW abilities. I don't think they are. Maybe they like the idea of toad bringing a rain? Something to do with their culture? Not sure.

It's easy to remove the DW abilities: Yes. Will they do it? Unlikely.

 

[MidnightFennekin]

Just done a damage test between Gardevoir and Hydreigon.

I'm fairly new to competitive, so I may be wrong about calculations

As many people believe that Fairy Wind is a Silver Wind Variant with Fairy-Typing, I used Silver Wind. However, I set it's power to 90 due to the fact the Fairy-Type STAB would put it to that power.

Now, with Gardevoir's base 125 Sp. Attack power with no EVs or IVs, and Hydreigon's 92 Base HP and 90 Base Sp. Defense with no EVs and IVs, both with a Serious nature, the 90 powered Silver Wind is a guaranteed 2HKO, as it's power is doubled due to super effectiveness.

However, Fairy-Type is supposed to be SE on Dark-Types. For the sake of this, I changed Hydreigon into a Dark/Psychic-Type.

This makes Silver Wind (Fairy Wind) a 1HKO!

So if I did the calculations right, Fairy-Type is not Super Effective on Dark-Types!

I put Hydreigon as a Pure Dark-Type, to represent Pure Dragon (As we can't use Fairy-Type >.<) due to Silver Wind being SE on that, and it's a 2HKO!

Using Dragon-Type and Fairy Wind in the trailer, it was shown as probably being a 2HKO!

There you have it You may call it the 'Midnight Theory', or if I'm wrong, the 'Midnight you Mediocre Dunce! You got it all wrong! Theory'.

 

[Alfred the Second]

Just done a damage test between Gardevoir and Hydreigon.

I'm fairly new to competitive, so I may be wrong about calculations

As many people believe that Fairy Wind is a Silver Wind Variant with Fairy-Typing, I used Silver Wind. However, I set it's power to 90 due to the fact the Fairy-Type STAB would put it to that power.

Now, with Gardevoir's base 125 Sp. Attack power with no EVs or IVs, and Hydreigon's 92 Base HP and 90 Base Sp. Defense with no EVs and IVs, both with a Serious nature, the 90 powered Silver Wind is a guaranteed 2HKO, as it's power is doubled due to super effectiveness.

However, Fairy-Type is supposed to be SE on Dark-Types. For the sake of this, I changed Hydreigon into a Dark/Psychic-Type.

This makes Silver Wind (Fairy Wind) a 1HKO!

So if I did the calculations right, Fairy-Type is not Super Effective on Dark-Types!

I put Hydreigon as a Pure Dark-Type, to represent Pure Dragon (As we can't use Fairy-Type >.<) due to Silver Wind being SE on that, and it's a 2HKO!

Using Dragon-Type and Fairy Wind in the trailer, it was shown as probably being a 2HKO!

There you have it You may call it the 'Midnight Theory', or if I'm wrong, the 'Midnight you Mediocre Dunce! You got it all wrong! Theory'.

Lol, that was a good post. Not sure about how mediocre you are

Since you didn't post the percentages, I made my own calculations.

1) Assuming that both have 31 IVs and 0 EVs


Neutral Gardevoir 90 BP Supereffective move (2X)

52.76 - 62.57%

If it 4X Supereffective, it's a clear OHKO.

Gardevoir 252 EVs in SPA, Modest Nature 70.55 - 83.43%

If Fairy Wind is a 40 BP(60 wit STAB) move...

252 EV Positive Gardevoir 47.23 - 55.82%

0 EV Neutral 34.96 - 41.71%


The damage done is around 80% in the trailer. It can either be a sucky move with 40 BP and supereffective on dark or the Gardevoir isn't EV'd and it's a 60 BP and 2x effective on Hydreigon.

I am inclining on the latter.

 

[T-Bolt]

Well if anything they would have to make things like Rapid Spin and Magic Bounce more widely distributed at least. Taunt as well. Or at least not add to much to the amount of Pokemon that can set up hazards already. And especially not add any new hazards. Imagine a spike variant that burns or paralyzes on contact . . .

Yeah, they definitely might distribute Magic bounce to more pokemon, but I'm hoping that there will be more good Rapid spin users, or atleast a new move that removes hazards.

My guess is that fairy wind is a really weak fairy move, but I've heard that the guy who leaked the XY info put some fake info in, so that the pokemon guys don't catch him or something.

 

[Touché Amoré]

Yeah, they definitely might distribute Magic bounce to more pokemon, but I'm hoping that there will be more good Rapid spin users, or atleast a new move that removes hazards.

My guess is that fairy wind is a really weak fairy move, but I've heard that the guy who leaked the XY info put some fake info in, so that the pokemon guys don't catch him or something.

That is why typically I try not to believe stuff until I see it in CoroCoro or until it is made official by Nintendo. Like I swear there is more fake Pokemon info then anything else lol

 

[_Sylveon_]

What if... you guys are all over thinking this whole situation and Hydreigon was just another pokemon shown in the trailer? It could just be another pokemon. The Dark-Type is just Hydreigon's typing, it doesnt mean that Fairy will be super effective/not effective/immune. I'm not saying it won't, but just because it's Dark-Type doesn't give enough a reason to conclude this.

 

[Divine Retribution]

What if... You guys are ALL over thinkin this, Hydreigon was just another pokemon in the trailer... It could just be ANOTHER pokemon and the dark type is just part of Hydreigons typing, it doesnt mean that it will be super/not/immune. Im not saging it wont but just be ausw its dark doesnt meana nything

And the award for most illiterate post of the month goes to...


Anyways, let's move beyond fairies for a second... How do you think the new battling mechanics will affect simulators? Will they be able to cope with the lack of spites, or will online battling be done for?