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PokeAni Missed Opportunities

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by matt0044, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. Janovy

    Janovy Banned

    It doesn't help that the nerd of the class is incredibly similar to another nerd we just had before him.
     
  2. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "Am I supposed to laugh?"

    And the nerd's sister fused with him.
     
  3. Frozocrone

    Frozocrone Miraculous!

    SM Potential spoilers

    [spoil]I think not having a classmate, like Plumeria or even just an OC start in school but do badly with trainer stuff/grades or whatever and slowly fall into Team Skull's ideologies/grasp because this classmate would then have a place to belong could have been an interesting concept to go with, but it seems like we're just sticking to the six that we started with in the beginning of the series.[/spoil]
     
  4. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    Plumeria could claim to be a former student of the school should she appear in the future.
     
  5. Frozocrone

    Frozocrone Miraculous!

    [spoil]Maybe, but I would have liked to have seen that decline and struggle as opposed to 'yeahs, im bad because dis school failed me'[/spoil]
     
  6. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    It's weird how Dawn and May got rivals of opposite gender like Kenny and Drew who impacted their journey but Ash barely had a main female rivals aside from Bianca who he, well, barely battled. Honestly, Hilda should've be used for that role rather than Trip if they weren't going to have the Female PC travel with Ash. Hell, Moon could be that should he start traveling Alola soon.
     
  7. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    While a lot can be said about TPCi's English Dub, one thing that seems to be lackluster overall is a lot of the dialogue. Particularly in how it seems to go from too liberal to too literal with very little in between. 4kids might've screwed the pooch with a lot of their other properties but with Pokemon, they had good script adapters in addition to good translators. They didn't need Team Rocket to speak like rejected Dr. Suess characters so much as have some witty, if corny, banter.

    (Let's keep the voice casting out of this, please).
     
  8. Well from what I observed the Pokemon Dub at the moment (Sun and Moon) are closely following the dialogue of the original Japanese. So most of the things they're saying in the dub are the same things their Jap counterparts said. I actually prefer it this way, when they start adding in their own words and dialogue in the Dubbed it gets confusing and makes you think something is happening when really isn't like the Misty Ash thing
     
  9. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    Well, an English Dub shouldn't just translate the script but make sure it reads out like what a native English speaker would be saying. Hell, Samson Oak and Rotom's little pun off was altered significantly so why not tweak more of the script? This is something I think FUNimation's dub do great at with Dragon Ball Z Kai, Fairy Tail and Psycho Pass.
     
  10. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Kanae, Keeper of the Gates Emblazoned

    4Kids was good at making the dialogue flow naturally, but they Americanized a lot of it so as to remove its obvious Japanese roots. They also occasionally implied things that weren't so heavily implied in Japan. TPCi is good at translation but the dialogue doesn't match up with the lip movements so they have to add in random words to fit, which makes it sound weirdly forced. However, since puns don't really translate anyway, the extra awful puns that Samson uses come out perfectly groan-worthy.
     
  11. Satomine Night

    Satomine Night The Power of Z!

    This right here. 4Kids's translation wasn't always faithful to the original script--it was heavily localized, and the cultural references were edited or removed (jelly-filled doughnuts, anyone?)--and the lip syncing was sometimes appallingly bad, but most of the time, the dialogue sounded pretty natural. TPCi's translation is much more faithful to the original script, and their lip syncing is much better, but their dialogue doesn't sound as natural, because they add in random words in order match the lip syncing.

    Samson Oak's puns were never going to translate into English (or any other language), simply due to the differences between the Pokémon's Japanese names and English names. I actually feel sorry for the dubbers. Samson's puns are visual, so that just makes coming up with dialogue even harder. :/
     
  12. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    The Samson Oak puns actually work well in the Dutch dub. They're obviously not the exact same jokes as they use the English pokémon names and the Dutch language but they still manage to make it work impressively well. I mean, the jokes are really terrible, but they're meant to be.

    Personally I think they shouldn't butcher lines trying to match Japanese lip movements, rather they should just adjust the lip movements in the footage to match the new dialogue.
     
  13. Satomine Night

    Satomine Night The Power of Z!

    But that would require a lot of heavy editing and reanimating, wouldn't it? While TCPi has reanimated footage before Ash held prisoner on Prism Tower, I imagine reanimating or heavily editing every scene that contains dialogue would be very cost-consuming. Instead, it's better to adjust the dialogue to match the mouth movements. There ought to be ways to do that, and still be faithful to the original script, that don't result in unnatural-sounding dialogue.
     
  14. Frozocrone

    Frozocrone Miraculous!

    In theory you're right, but financial costs are greater for editing footage than just editing dialogue. Quite frankly, TPCi doesn't care enough to do that.
     
  15. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    I'll play devil's advocate in saying how the lip syncing got better after Kanto. In addition, the dialogue was localized but in terms of cultural references, that was always meant to be. The jelly doughnuts were indeed nonsense but others things that referred to Japan's history or culture would've gone over your average American's head. The same was more or less done with the video game too, just so we're not singling anybody out.

    I think ADV Films/Sentai Filmworks have managed to produce dubs that are indeed faithfully translated from the original and share their script largely with their subtitle tracks. However, they write in a way that allows the voice director to get a good performance out of the voice actors. Kino's Journey and SDF Macross come to mind as well as Azumanga Daioh.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  16. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    Ed Goldfarb is a fine composer in my opinion but who ever does the scoring for his pieces sure doesn't know jack about making sure the emotional scenes are given the appropriate mix of silence and music. I've seen other English dubs that give the soundtrack an overhaul and do it right like LBX: Little Battlers Experience and Digimon Tamers/Frontier.

    If Pokemon must replace the music, the least they could do is do it better.
     
  17. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ Tsundere Girl

    If we're talking about the XY dub I agree, but so far in the SM dub I think the dub bgm has been great so far
     
  18. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    True but it could be a lot better. Like while I feel like 4kids should've just used the Japanese BGM if they were able to, I'll give them credit for their dub music such as with the first two movies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  19. RedJirachi

    RedJirachi Veteran member

    A number of things, but on the top of my list would be not using the old Mewtwo in the Genesect movie, not using the original GS Ball plan of Celebi which could lead up to the fourth movie, not giving May that Swablu or Ash the shiny Phantump...
     
  20. LilligantLewis

    LilligantLewis primarina donna

    HUGE missed opportunity: Virgil's Eevee should have evolved into Sylveon to defeat Dino's Druddigon in the Kalos League Final. It would have debuted 3 things at once: Sylveon, the Fairy type, and Fairy's immunity to Dragon

    EDIT: or better yet vs. Cameron's Hydreigon in the semifinal.

    Also thought of another MO,but edited so as not to double-post: The tag battle in Party Dancecapades! should have been Greninja/Pancham to allow Pancham to evolve (and Eevee could have evolved another time since her evolution requirements aren't as strict)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017

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