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Pokemon Anime's False Groudon Vs. Pokemon Adventure's False Kyogre! Who's your favorite! (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'General Pokémon Discussion' started by shoz999, Jul 4, 2018.


Which is your favorite take on the False Legendaries of the Weather Trio?

  1. Jirachi Wish Maker's False Groudon!

    0 vote(s)
  2. Emerald Arc's False Kyogre!

    1 vote(s)
  1. shoz999

    shoz999 No! That's impossible!

    WARNING! This ENTIRE discussion thread is a spoiler thread! Specifically containing spoilers of Jirachi Wish Maker and the Pokemon Adventures Emerald Arc! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK! Contains images of False Kyogre and False Groudon below! TURN BACK if you don't want to get spoiled!
    So before going into this discussion. Just remember this. This ENTIRE discussion thread is a spoiler thread! If you hate spoilers then do not read any further from this point! You've been warned! The reason is because False Groudon and False Kyogre are unexpected surprise twists that appears near the end of there stories. If your still reading, read my and other people's opinions at your own risk! This thread WILL contain heavy spoilers! There is almost no way avoiding that!

    The reason why this is not listed in the Anime and Adventure's thread and in the General Pokemon Thread instead is because this is essentially a thread comparing two different adaptations of Pokemon, specifically the False Groudon and Kyogre. I feel the Pokemon General Thread is the appropriate place for this thread instead of trying to create two identical threads for both the Anime and Manga sections that caters to two specific fanbases of Pokemon. Because this thread caters to both Anime and Adventures fans, I believe this does not fit in the Anime and Manga section and fits in the Pokemon General Discussion thread.


    So one thing I notice is that the False Groudon of Pokemon Jirachi Wish Maker and the False Kyogre of Pokemon Adventures Emerald Arc actually have very similar origins. I feel like the writer of Pokemon Adventures wanted to do his take on a False Kyogre, the opposite of False Groudon. For starters there both created through a wish by Jirachi in the name of a villain who has connections to either Team Magma or Team Aqua. However there are noticeable differences.

    False Kyogre was created because the villain, Guile Hideout, longed for the seas and commanded this monster made of water to flood the entire Battle Frontier. Fortunately the False Kyogre was defeated through a combination of multiple Blast Burns, Frenzy Plants, and Hydro Cannons by the protagonists of Gen 1, Gen 2, and Gen 3.

    False Groudon on the other hand was created because the villain, Butler, wanted to complete his failed experiment after Team Magma rejected him, causing him to grow resentful and obsessed with Groudon. Unlike Guile Hideout who is pleased by his wish, Butler is horrified by what his wish created, a false corrupted Groudon that sought to absorb all life. In the anime movie, Jirachi unleashed Doom Desire to destroy the false Groudon.

    So yeah. That pretty much sums up the two false takes on Groudon and Kyogre. Now all we need is a False Rayquaza from the TCG ha ha ha. Anyways which is your favorite take on the idea of a False Legendary of the Weather Trio?

    The rest of this post is my opinion and I know a lot of you here have probably seen the Jirachi Wish Maker Movie more than you have read the Pokemon Adventures manga. So if your interested in reading the manga but don't want any spoilers at all, here's to sum up my opinion in short. I felt False Kyogre felt more like an Apocalyptic End Game Boss than False Groudon did, taking far more effort and steps to defeat a literal living tsunami that threatened to drown everyone on the Battle Frontier to death and the villain behind False Kyogre's creation, who he is, how he achieved this, and how he was defeated, all so amazing! In fact if you have never read the manga at all... I ABSOLUTELY recommend you don't look at my spoiler-filled opinion! The Emerald Arc especially is one of those Arcs that is just incredible on the first read and it's best enjoyed by reading all the previous arcs first as this has tons of fan service to Adventures fans on epic proportions that undoubtedly makes the Anime's attempt at fan service, such as special episodes dedicated to returning characters, seem kind of like a joke, no offense but I do feel this is true and anyone who reads the manga I believe at least agrees there is some truth to this. So if you absolutely do not care or plan on reading the Pokemon Adventures manga at all, then go ahead BUT if you even a little bit at one point in time had an interest in reading Adventures... I really recommend you do not touch that spoiler button! Besides it's a long novel behind the spoiler button... so good luck reading it!

    So if you clicked this. You either A) Have already read this manga arc or B) Never read this manga arc but don't care for spoilers and may or may not regret it in the future. Well anyways. My favorite take is False Kyogre as I said before. Jirachi Wish Maker is actually one of my favorite Pokemon movies, due to having beautiful animation and a very consistent and well-done story with little to no plotholes that doesn't rely too much on nostalgia or unnecessary fan service unlike most Pokemon movies. In some ways, it actually reminds me of a Studio Ghibli Film more than other Pokemon movies. In that movie, False Groudon was quite a menacing presence however to me False Kyogre felt like a true endgame boss that was going to bring total destruction to everyone. While Ash in the movie needed Jirachi to use Doom Desire to defeat False Groudon with just a single hit, avoid getting absorbed by it, the odds looked strongly against the protagonists of Pokemon Adventures, almost like the apocalypse was happening. While False Groudon felt very alien, False Kyogre was essentially a literal tsunami that was going to drown everyone to death on the Battle Frontier if it wasn't stopped and man did the art in Pokemon Adventures showed how incredibly dangerous the situation was. Unlike the movie, Jirachi wasn't there to instantly stop False Kyogre and False Kyogre wasn't actually the only threat. In the movie, Ash had to deal with Butler before he had a change of a heart. However the protagonists of previous generations... (for those unfamiliar with the manga)
    • Red, Blue, Green, Yellow of Gen 1 (Red, Leaf, your rival Green/Blue + a Manga-exclusive character representing Pokemon Yellow)
    • Gold, Silver, and Krystal of Gen 2 (Ethan, Silver your rival, Krys/Lyra)
    • Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald of Gen 3 (Brendan, May, and a Manga-exclusive character representing Pokemon Emerald)
    ... had to work together to fight an onslaught of stolen rental Pokemon from the Battle Factory gone crazy and all trained by a powerful Frontier Brain using all there highly-trained Pokemon in a battle of epic proportions before using there chosen fully-evolved starters, which includes every single fully-evolved starter up to Gen 3 meaning Venusaur all the way to Swampert, to repeatedly launch the strongest moves known at the time, the elemental variations of Hyper Beam (Blast Burn, Frenzy Plant, Hydro Cannon), to defeat the False Kyogre that threaten to literally kill them. This wasn't like False Groudon that could be solved through a simple plot-device, this felt like a literally end-game apocalyptic boss battle that required strategy. In fact it kind of reminded me of the Chaos Final Boss Battle from Sonic Adventures where he floods and destroys the entire city.
    Also another thing I loved is the steps it took to defeat Guile Hideout unlike Butler which personally felt simple to me in comparison. I won't go too into detail on how they defeat Guile Hideout but one of my favorite moments is when Red's Poliwrath and Gold's Politoed team up together to destroy his special-made armor through a specific move that only the readers of the manga who have been paying attention knows what it is and it makes a lot of sense actually if your both a huge fan of the manga and of competitive Pokemon. In fact the Emerald Arc is actually a love letter to competitive battling in general using the Battle Frontier as the basis for this. Anyways unlike Butler who regrets his decision and wants to start a new chapter of his life with his beloved, the fate for Guile Hideout of how it gets there is not only quite clever but kind of dark and shocking for a Pokemon Adaptation. If you are reading this, have not read the manga still and still do not care for spoilers at this point I recommend you still go read the manga starting with the very first story arc to the Emerald Arc as while this is an opinion filled with heavy spoilers, a lot of these epic moments don't actually make fully sense unless you read the manga itself lol. Anyways, at this point if you do now have some interest in the manga and don't want to get spoiled further, I think you can still enjoy the Emerald Arc fully despite the spoilers I mentioned since A) many of the spoilers I mentioned don't actually make sense unless you read it and B) the art and scenes of Pokemon Adventures is absolutely epic and I feel anyone, including me, trying to explain this in words does not do justice on just how epic the story is. Past further is images on just a few of the many steps taken to defeat Guile Hideout and the False Kyogre and it contains some serious epic scenes here you will almost never find in any other adaptation or the games itself.

    The Images from Top to Bottom. The First Scene is an awesome moment of Red's Poliwrath and Gold's Politoed using a particular move to destroy Guile's armor. Why this particular move and what's the deal with his armor? That's something your going to have to find out in the manga if you haven't read it. The answer to this problem is quite clever and reasonable if you know your moves. The second image is Guile resorting to using the Rental Pokemon he's stolen from the Battle Factory to fight every protagonist, resorting them to use almost every single Pokemon they currently have from there previous epic journeys. Who's Pokemon is who? That's something your going to have to find out by reading Pokemon Adventures! The last scene is all the fully-evolved starter Pokemon up to Gen 3 getting ready to destroy False Kyogre with the elemental variations of hyper beam, supposedly the most powerful moves available at this time.
    Anyways. As some of you can see, I'm still being quite restrictive to an extant with the spoilers as the Emerald Arc is such an amazing read on the first try. Even though a lot I want to talk about has heavy spoilers related to it, I'm still being restrictive enough for those who don't really care for spoilers but may be interested in the manga later on after reading some of the restricted spoilers here.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  2. RedJirachi

    RedJirachi Veteran member

    "Groudon" is my favorite. It's a Lovecraftian abomination that devours everything in its path
    shoz999 likes this.

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