Pokemon as living things; an observation

[Yami_no_Waru]

This is an argument that I had with a few friends about what makes Pokemon so different from other "monsters" and why they have such strange names and typings. Here's my point, and you can reply as you want (though try not to flame me :/)

What makes Pokemon so different from Digimon/Tamagotchi/YuGiOh/whatever is that Pokemon are actual things. They're not magical or enchanted monsters, or data in a living RPG, or something cooked up ina person's imagination. They're actually objects and creatures living in a realistic world with a biology and a function. And that's what makes Pokemon more appealing than the rest, at least to me. A Pidgey plays a role, presumably, in the Pokemon world as a wild bird, similar to, say, a sparrow. It doesn't live to battle, it's not controlled by an evil force. It's simply just another animal. And when you get to something like Oddish, it's a special variety of plant. I can't say why it can walk and talk, but it certainly isn't magical. It's just a weed, that can somehow get around and do stuff on its own. But it has a biology about it.

Mechanical pokemon, as well as indeterminate, are a little different, but they also have basis. The argument doesn't weaken at the sight of Sableye or Magnemite. Sableye is just a living troll, and he, once again, behaves as a part of his environment, and not some enchanted being. Magnemite, however that came about, may not be organic, but still lives in an environment as a member in an ecosystem. Despite being made of metal, it does exhibit characteristics of an organism, and does not appear to be simply "just some monster."

The point I'm getting at is that Pokemon are not, again, magical beings or anything like that, but living breathing organisms, whose behaviors and actions are entirely biological. This is shown in the Dex and also through typing. If you notice, the types are not named by element so much as they are attribute. It's not Wind, it's Flying. And the fact that there are Bug, Ghost, and Dragon types shows this further. They're not typically elements, but natures of a being. Charmander is a lizard who just so happens to, biologically, produce flames on the tip of its tail. It has harnessed this power as a self-defense mechanism to allow it to breathe fire. But Water, its weakness, dampens those flames, and destroys its means of defense. It is weak to Water through association. The Pokemon itself is not weak to water, but its means of survival are. In the anime, we see Sandshrew and Cyndaquil both swimming, but not attacking while underwater. They're perfectly capable of entering the water and getting around, they just are defenseless while doing so. When Charmander becomes Charmeleon and eventually Charizard, it grows wings. This gives it the Flying type, which really just means that it has the ability of flight, therefore it can avoid Ground based attacks, as well as attack with its wings. A Charizard using Wing Attack gets STAB because it has wings, because it has mastered flight. The same goes for Flamethrower. If Charizard used Dragon Claw, its typing is dragon because he's hitting with the ferocity of a dragon, but he does not get STAB because he himself does not have the "mastery of Dragon." He can simply mimic it. Dragon Claw is taught via TM anyways, so it's not natural for a Charizard to be using this attack.

Traits fall into a similar category, all being explained biologically. Immunity because they cannot be poisoned, Cute Charm because they are attractive, Speed Boost because they can move rapidly, etc. etc. So there's my argument about Pokemon being biological creatures, and not mystical monsters.

A few extra notes:
--Ghost, Bug, Dragon are simply showing the physical relation and nature of the beast. Not any elemental affinity.
--Psychic replaces "Holy" or "Light," because Pokemon are not divine, but may possess a strong mental capacity, even enough to the point of controlling movements, creating energy in the form of fire, or recovering their own physical health
--Most, if not all, a Pokemon's moves have a basis and a reason. They don't just magically happen. It's something within the Pokemon's biology
--Non-electric types using Electric moves can be explained away as energy from muscle movements or Psychic powers
--Dark types never actually attack with "Dark" energy, but rather just use dirty tactics to fight
--Fighting shows a mastery of higher fighting techniques, whereas Normal is lack of any special attribute or affinity
--Pokemon species are born in their lowest stage, unless it's a special case (Wynaut, Azurill), and only evolve when trained under specific conditions. Humans are one, rough times are another. It appears the one huge difference between Pokemon and other creatures is their very rapid evolution into higher forms
--Pokemon breed like anything else in the wild. Eggs are just a freak of nature that occurs under human influence
--Legendaries are extremely powerful creatures, many the basis for world mythology and religion, that happen to still exist in today's world
--Not to completely discredit some Pokemon being enchanted or magical, there are a few cases (Unown, Regis, Claydol), but they only support the others

Well, I hope you guys enjoyed my (long) argument I just felt like writing something semi-philosophical, and here it is

 

[feebas_factor]

I always liked to think about pokemon being completely biological as well, without some kind of "magic"... the only problem I had with this was why would dark be special then; also bug being super effective against psychic and dark, but that was more a balance thing anyway...

Staying on topic, I think you gave some really good points and examples. I would still consider most of the legendaries sort of magical though... otherwise how would they have such control over nature and the environment? Also, would ghost be like ectoplasm? And I don't think pokemon evolution is actual evolution, because... well, what happens in pokemon is just not the essence of evolution. It's a bit like metamorphasis, but I think that really the pokemon are always growing and developing; at the points where major changes occur (wings, blooming, shedding of fur), we divide the growth periods into separate forms.

One last question though: what do you consider to be the case with pokemon being transformed into energy inside pokeballs? Is this a trait unique to pokemon, or the tecnhology of the pokeball?

 

[Kabuto]

Interesting facts, there is enough proof that Pokemon ARE living creatures in the Pokemon World.

what do you consider to be the case with pokemon being transformed into energy inside pokeballs? Is this a trait unique to pokemon, or the tecnhology of the pokeball?

Most likely the technology, but Pokemon must have something inside them allowing them to be transformed into energy when near a Pokeball. Otherwise humans and other organisms would probably be captured as well.

 

[Yami_no_Waru]

I would consider that the Pokeball technology. I mean, Ash catches a donut at one point. So it's possible that Pokeballs can capture a multitude of things, though are mostly designed with Pokemon in mind. The PCs also present a bizarre case, with the Pokemon being transformed into data, supposedly. But on the show, and I refer here once again because it's a good base for these ideas, there was a storage room with a teleporter in the PokeCenter, and that was how Pokemon were sent between trainers. What's likely is that there is some magical storage bin somewhere in the universe that your monsters are teleported to, and the PC is just the means to get them out. Ash's are sent to Oak's, those trainers in that one episode had theirs sent to a Center, and maybe, in game, you have yours sent to Bill. I don't know. But Pokeballs are capable of changing in size, and I presume physical storage isn't that difficult. It's just a game, so you know what? They were just doing what was easiest to program

And it's good to hear people agree with the argument ;D I've run into more than a few who completely deny Pokemon having any ties to nature at all.

 

[Tazzler]

I see your point. I am currently writing an article that shows the life of pokemon in the real world. By real world, I mean if pokemon were on their own, not in some anime with battles and pokeballs. I mean that they have to follow the rules of life.

 

[Kabuto]

And even judging by the names of Pokemon they can be connected to life.

Magikarp- Karp
Spearow- Sparrow
Hitmonchan- Jackie Chan

 

[Clockwork Ninja]

i bet people would use pokemon in a war rather than guns and that stuff. possibly octillery because the 'illery' part comes from artillery.

 

[Ludicolo von Nosepass]

Yeah if they could tame them! Besides in the Pokémon world they are used for war Lt. Surge used his Raichu to zap the other sides mens and Pokémons!

 

[sdp]

There is no war in the PKMN World, only peace.

 

[undisputed_seraphim]

Actually, this is the most sensible piece of argument I've seen so far Perhaps it should be moved to the debates?

Anyway, generally speaking there is still some form of magic to an extent, if you want to fully explain the presence of Unowns or the Regis. But otherwise, pokemon like Magnemite can also be natural beings, while legendaries like Lugia can be simply genderless.

Electric types have not been elaborated yet... but here's my idea: Electric types can't actually generate electricity out of nowhere (of course) but instead, most, if not all, produce electrical attacks via static electricity, of from some other source. Noteworthy: Electrike and Manectric. Raichu, perhaps, have alkaline matter stored in its cheeks (not that batteries are alkaline) or similar to car batteries, which are recharged when the cars move. Perhaps that's why most electric pokemon are fast, they need to recharge. Ampharos and Lanturn might have some sort of internal lighting system, or are simply a coincidence that they have phosphorous or light-generating bacteria in them.

Anothre note is of the Water type. I used to wonder, how on earth does a squirtle fire a stream of water with volume that looks as though it is bigger than Squirtle itself? The case of Blastoise is easily solved, as in one of the manga I saw that Blastoises have, er, "pumps" on their behinds that suck water when they are near water sources to replenish their water supply (in its shell, I suppose). Or, Water pokemon can osmosize water from the air and store them in their bodies through their skin, etc etc.

Case 3: Poison types. Not much to say, just the question of why it is weak against Psychic types...

Case 4: Dark Types. Why is it immune to Psychic types? Is it because it has such mental willpower that it can block mental peneration? I don't know.

Case 5: Rock and Ground. I used to confuse between them. Why is it rock? Why can Ground absorb electricity but not rock?

That's all I can think of for now...

 

[Yami_no_Waru]

Electric types have not been elaborated yet... but here's my idea: Electric types can't actually generate electricity out of nowhere (of course) but instead, most, if not all, produce electrical attacks via static electricity, of from some other source. Noteworthy: Electrike and Manectric. Raichu, perhaps, have alkaline matter stored in its cheeks (not that batteries are alkaline) or similar to car batteries, which are recharged when the cars move. Perhaps that's why most electric pokemon are fast, they need to recharge. Ampharos and Lanturn might have some sort of internal lighting system, or are simply a coincidence that they have phosphorous or light-generating bacteria in them.

Anothre note is of the Water type. I used to wonder, how on earth does a squirtle fire a stream of water with volume that looks as though it is bigger than Squirtle itself? The case of Blastoise is easily solved, as in one of the manga I saw that Blastoises have, er, "pumps" on their behinds that suck water when they are near water sources to replenish their water supply (in its shell, I suppose). Or, Water pokemon can osmosize water from the air and store them in their bodies through their skin, etc etc.

Case 3: Poison types. Not much to say, just the question of why it is weak against Psychic types...

Case 4: Dark Types. Why is it immune to Psychic types? Is it because it has such mental willpower that it can block mental peneration? I don't know.

Case 5: Rock and Ground. I used to confuse between them. Why is it rock? Why can Ground absorb electricity but not rock?

That's all I can think of for now...

Haha. Thanks a bunch for the appreciation

And here's my input on those five cases:

Electric-- It's Pokemon-specific, as with all typings. The Dex points to Pikachu storing excess charge in its cheeks. How does a body produce electricity? Movement. Muscles, such as the heart, produce a current as they move. Electric types are fast because, naturally, this is how they can produce their own store of electrical energy. It's how eels and rays can do it; quick spasms in the muscles

Water-- This falls into the realm of why pretty much everyone can do Toxic, though a little more complex. Living things are composed of water, and mostly water at that. Water types are simply more adept at storing that water, and utilizing it. Something like a Goldeen lives in water its whole life (unless brought out for battle by a human), and is surrounded constantly. It has learned to use water, through spitting, splashing, or causing waves as a defense. Something like Squirtle, which is amphibious, recharges its stock of water at ponds and lakes, like your Blastoise example. They just don't show these things in game because, well... that's boring ;D But a Squirtle has a greater capacity for storing water, and using it, than say... Bulbasaur, who can't really do anything with water in terms of offense/defense. A Dunsparce, which can learn Water Pulse, has a little more capability for storing water, but it can't use it as ably as a Squirtle, hence no STAB.

Poison-- These are mostly indeterminate things, huh? Well, again, on an individual basis, they can be explained to some extent. Gulpin/Swalot are stomach Pokemon, though I'd hold them more to a slime mold (same goes for Ditto). Koffing and Weezing are just some bizarre form not analogous to anything in the real world, but living. And Grimer and Muk are synthetic sludge that was most likely animated by human hands (which holds for Voltorb/Electrode as well, I think). Poison attacks, such as Toxic, I hold as bodily chemicals that are hazardous. Toxic, for example, I always pictured as stomach acid that the Pokemon coughs up to attack. How else would a Pidgeot muster up a poisonous spray? When you get into things like Geodude, then you could assume there's a compound within the rock structure that Pokemon has been taught to exploit. Poison types can still be written off as living and biological, though it gets kinda hairy with, say, Muk, definitely...

Dark-- Like I said, if you notice, Dark types don't actually attack with the power of Darkness, but just cheap fighting tricks. Beat Up, Bite, Faint Attack, Snatch, etc. They're associated with nighttime because, well, it's easier to do these kinds of things at night. And Psychics are synonomous with the daytime because they're bitter rivals with Dark types. Psychic powers require intense training and honing of abilities, to empower the mind. Dark types skip all that, and get right to the nitty gritty. That's why they're immune; they don't see things that way. You can teach a Dark type Psychic and other Psychic maneuvers (and yes, things like Hypnosis and Agility are technically Psychic moves, but don't necessarily require a powerful mind to actually use), but they will not go about learning them naturally. Two different philosophies when it comes to survival, I'd say. That's the difference between Psychic and Dark.
NOTE: If I'm not mistaken, Dark is known as "Aku" in Japan, and Psychic "Esper." Or was that their original names? This really has nothing to do with the argument, just curious.

Rock and Ground-- Ah. I covered this once, to clarify for myself. Take note of this: Rock types? Are all mineral. Ground? Not always. Ground types are creatures that make their living of the earth. In other words, they have ties to the desert, soil, underground and whatever else. Sandshrew and Phanpy are Ground types because they literally live off the ground, and that's their main means of survival. I'll burrow underground, I'll shake the earth, I'll slap you with mud. Others can learn these attacks as well, but Ground types know them very well. Rock types, now, are mineral. Graveler, Sudowoodo, Nosepass, etc. They are not made of flesh and blood (and I'll get to the fossils in a tick). I think originally Nintendo intended to do an Earth type, but realized that if these were actual living creatures, then it would be strange to place an elephant, a mole, and a Moai head in the same class. So they created the Rock type for mineral beings, and Ground for organics. Ground/Rock, if you ask me, is the remnants of the Earth type philosophy, that has since dissolved in GSC and RSE. There were still pure Grounds, but no pure Rocks in RBY, and probably because Nintendo wasn't sure what a pure Rock type would be. And then along comes Sudowoodo, the petrified tree. Something very mineral. As for the fossils, they are only Rock because they were once fossils and nothing more. Aerodactyl is fully flesh and blood, but he's got the Rock type because he's still a little "dusty" so to speak But the fossils still carry over a piece of their mineral ties from when they were fossils, and that's why they're part Rock.
As for Ground being immune to Electric, the logic follows along the lines of a lightningrod. And I guess Nintendo never planned to make Ground/Water or Ground/Flying types, because then it just gets bizarre. I really can't explain the reasoning behind that one too well... But I was taught that, as long as you aren't grounded, you wouldn't get a shock. Apparently Nintendo rather thought the energy would build up in a bird that isn't grounded and just make it explode XD

Okay, that's enough from me for now, once again. Oh, and to answer something I forgot to answer: Yeah, Ghost types are basically just ectoplasm and other-dimensional beings. But, again, it's on an individual basis. Shedinja's just the shell of another bug, while Banette's a possessed doll and Gengar's a creepy shadow. They're otherworldly. Thanks again for your replies and additions, guys

 

[Bling King]

There is no war in the PKMN World, only peace.

If this is true, then why were Lt. Surge and Wattson both in a war? Clearly they don't have peace.

 

[Chilled2m7]

Ofcourse Pokemon are living breathing beings. They represent a very odd family of organisms that has obviously branched off radically from most living beings. Take for example, the ability to "evolve" within a matter of seconds, obviously this unique adaptation suggests that there is a common ancestor to ALL pokemon who have the ability to survive.

To be honest, the one thing that troubles me in the anime is how there is still ordinary creatures (bugs , fish, ect) yet these intelligent Pokemon dont effect the ecological balance of the world. One might think that a creature such as pidgey who is extremely intelligent (compared to most animals IRL) would virtually wipe out certain species of insects or small rodents that get in their way. They have a much higher capacity to plan ahead and execute a hunt efficiently.
But, maybe im just looking too far into this.

i bet people would use pokemon in a war rather than guns and that stuff. possibly octillery because the 'illery' part comes from artillery.

Umm, Let's see, would I rather have a fully automatic Assault rifle in my hands or a pokemon that knows water gun? it's pretty obvious Pokemon could only be used for support in modern combat. Charizard has NOTHIN on a F-16 fighter Jet. lol

 

[#1 Poke Fan]

The Pokemon world is a mystery and always will be. We can only study and make theories just like we do with much of outer space.

 

[Eszett]

I like your argument, Yami_no_Waru, and I certainly agree with you. Pokemon are simply members of an ecosystem that have evolved to use their powers to suit their place within the ecosystem. Also, I think that the lineage of biological ancestors might account for some of the movepools of certain Pokemon; for example, a comparable ancestor of Gardevoir might have been an Electric type, which then evolved over time to become a Psychic/Electric type, later become simply a Psychic type. The fact it can learn Shock Wave and Thunderbolt reflects this past lineage.

In addition, several Normal types with those large special movepools might have all had a common ancestor that could wield all of those powers. Later, this ancestor spread and formed into isolated pockets of populations, which then created differences between these species yet held together their similarities. For example, this ancestor could have resided in both Mt. Moon and the Safari Zone. The tall grasses of the Safari Zone favored a tall stature for this ancestor, whence Chansey came into being. In the instance of Mt. Moon, the cave environment could have favored a smaller stature that would require less food and would therefore be easy to maintain in conditions of low sunlight, whence Clefairy came into being.

Also, Pokerus will help your argument as well. Viruses attack biological machines, so if Pokemon are becoming infected with viruses that could only make their argument about being biological components even more cogent than you have already made it.

 

[Yamato-san]

some of the Pokemon being argued to not be organic, like Coil, Ishitsubute, etc. I think they actually are organic, they just have skin composed of rock or metal components. Do remember that several rock-type Pokemon have a mouth that, when opened, reveals a rather soft-looking, red, supposedly flesh-like mouth like most real animals have. I doubt Jupetta's just a doll, because it evolves from Kagebouzu (which does appear rather organic, or ectoplasmic or whatever), though it is wierd that it'd develop a slab of metal around its mouth shaped very similar to a man-made zipper. Also, what kind of metal would that zipper be made out of? It has a yellow coloring... I won't question the idea of organisms having metal in their bodies, considering real organisms, including ourselves, are composed of iron and several other things, but, what kind of metal in organic material has a yellow coloring?

Another thing worth noting is that all Pokemon are capable of eating. In the games, all Pokemon being able to eat berries might just be a program limitation, but if it's not, then I sure do wonder how Pokemon are capable of eating.... if Pokemon like the Regis, Unown, Yajiron, Nendoll, etc. really are mystical, maybe they absorb energy from food or something.

Speaking of mystical Pokemon, I think that may actually be the case with Coil, Biriridama, Danbaru, and others. I doubt they were the results of human technology because.... well, as it stands, humans in real life have enough trouble building a human-like robot. Do you really think the humans in the Pokemon world could produce something like a Coil, which is capable of producing a wide range of emotions (hell, they struggled to produce Porygon and Porygon2, and that was in recent times)? Especially in a somewhat primitive era when the first Monster Ball was invented (more primitive than the present, in any case), when the Pokedex claims Biriridama were first being sited? And I doubt a robot could reproduce, even with Metamon. They are pretty numerous in the wild, as well (in the anime, I think it was once suggested that Biriridama were reproducing on their own somehow in a town on one of the Orange Islands... remember, not everything in the game works the same in other mediums). Some may argue that they're robotic because of their voices, but those are dub-only. In the Japanese version, these Pokemon make electrical or magnetic screeching noises (in fact, in the English version of Pokemon Snap, you'll notice they actually kept this in with Coil and Rarecoil).

 

[Clockwork Ninja]

hey, has evryone forgotten that "supposedly" pokemon came from a meteorite? or the moon? or a meteorite from the moon? i dunno its something like that. its mentioned on the TV show quite a lot.

 

[Heracross]

Speaking of mystical Pokemon, I think that may actually be the case with Coil, Biriridama, Danbaru, and others. I doubt they were the results of human technology because.... well, as it stands, humans in real life have enough trouble building a human-like robot. Do you really think the humans in the Pokemon world could produce something like a Coil, which is capable of producing a wide range of emotions (hell, they struggled to produce Porygon and Porygon2, and that was in recent times)? Especially in a somewhat primitive era when the first Monster Ball was invented (more primitive than the present, in any case), when the Pokedex claims Biriridama were first being sited?

Not only that, but according to the Zukan entry in episode 30, humans still don't understand how Coil defies gravity as it does - pretty much proving that they had nothing to do with it's creation as otherwise you'd think they would know how this is achieved.

 

[kennychan007]

Actually, Pokemon is very related to Biology, Biochemistry, Physics and Chemistry. I think the writter is scientist or something.

For example, Pikachu is related to Biology and Biochemistry. Like a kind of fishes release electricity in Brazil.

 

[undisputed_seraphim]

Erm, guys? please stop using Japanese pokemon names, will ya?? I am getting lost.

Alright, heres my latest ideas. BTW, you can see how pokemon interacts with TM/HMS in another thread somehwere else, I cant remember...

Dragon types. Perhaps thier breath consists of powerful chemical agents (Dragonbreath) that can paralyse the foe. But basically they just use physical attacks. (Dragon Claw) Or they can summon forces of nature (Twister).

BTW (again) This thread is reminiscent of a book I read recently, "The Science of X-Men". Just so you know.

Back to topic.

What other types are there? Oh yeah, the Grass type. Again, not much to say, Oddish is your typical walking weed. Victreebel is a venus flytrap with eyes. Bulbasaur is a weird animal with a seed planted in its back. But here's a question: How do they grow vines (Vinewhip) in such a short moment to great lengths with considerable strength? I suppose they can generate some "super fertiliser" in them that spurs the grwoth of extreme vines. Or they can have enough Psychic power to manipulate leaves (Razor/Magical Leaf) to direct them towards its foe, but not enough to actually use Psychic attacks.

Fire types. Pokemon such as Charmander and bros might be like Houndoom (Volatile poison that ignite upon air) except the poison comes out of its tail. And the availability of the "poison" depends on Charmander's survival. Or Fire types can breath fire due to volatile chemicals that they generate in thier bodies.

Steel types. What causes these pokemon to grow metal plates on thier bodies? Metal is clearly not organic, and anything organic MUST, I repeat, MUST contain carbon somewhere in its chemical structure. Anything without carbon = not alive. I used to watch Evolution (movie) and I noted that "all living things on earth are made of mostly carbon" or something... Clearly, Steel types (It should be Iron type, but Steel sounds better XD) apparently consume excess metal compunds and, er, "excrete" them through pores on thier skin. This may occur while they tunnel (by eating the rocks and dirt) and may explain why most (save Scizor/Metagross) steel types are also rock/ground types (Steelix, Aggron perhaps even Jirachi, since the little guy sleeps in a rock underground).

Fighting types. This type is probably the most easily explained, second to Normal. Basically they're pokemon who love to flight/train themselves. The end.

*Hey! at least eleborate more!!*
What? What is it? Oh, alright.

Q: How does Hitmonlee stretch its limbs like THAT??
A: Not too sure, perhaps it has no bones in its limbs, just flexible skin and nerves, maybe a cartilage or two.

Q: Why does Machoke need a belt??
A: Go read the pokedex yourself.

That's it for now. Till I think of more.

[EDIT]: BTW, I don't call myself a Pokemon Genius Geek for nuthin'you know. XD