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Pokemon attacks that shouldn't be like they are?

Discussion in 'General Pokémon Discussion' started by Sante, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. Sante

    Sante Well-Known Member

    Here I have some examples that in my mind at least, don't make sense. First is Seismic Toss. It basically involves the user throwing the opponent in the air and falling on the ground. How could it not consider the Defense of the Pokemon? A Pokemon with a rock hard body will endure it much better than a Pokemon with a soft, plushy body. Blissey due to HP, can take the most Seismic Tosses. I don't think this would be possible considering her low Def. A Skarmory could easily endure it better in real life. Sky Drop on the other hand looks very much the same with Seismic Toss(both attacks lift the opponent and throw him to the ground), yet it is a physical attack and it considers Def. It doesn't make much sense.

    Also, some Special moves should be Physical. Water moves in particular should be physical. Hydro Pump, Hydro Cannon, Water Pulse, Water Gun etc They are concussive thus they inflict physical damage. Hyper Voice too. It is a concussive sound blast. Draco Meteor should be physical too. Mud Bomb also. I mean guys, okay, Solar Beam is energy based. Thunder is energy based too. But the aforementioned moves obviously inflict physical damage. They aren't energy based. They are concussive and shock the body. Skarmory's body is more physically durable than that of a Blissey thus it should be able to withstand more Hydro Pumps or Mud Bombs.
  2. Sound

    Sound Well-Known Member

    Has physical ever been called concussive, and special energy based in any official sources? Here's my feelings on the matter. A physical move requires a pokemon to... it's hard to explain. Basically, its using its body to use the move. I.E. A punch thrown by a Machamp is stronger than that of a Blissey. Likewise, a pokemon defends against such an attack using its body. Which is why Skarmory takes them better than Mantine. A special move is a pokemon using... again, tough to elaborate. Simply, its the pokemon tapping into nature in order to use the move. Normal animals can't shoot jets of water strong enough to destroy rocks. A pokemon can. Are you catching my drift? It's not some elaborate organ system, it's magic. Case in point? Psychic types. A water type pokemon has a strong connection to water, and therefore, can control it. Same with fire types. A pokemon like Starmie that can use something like Thunderbolt? It just decided to learn how to use it and figured out how to tap into the neccesary energy over a few thousand years. On the defensive matter, this is not like taking a punch, its withstanding a force of nature. Therefore, a pokemon needs a special way to defend against them. Which is why Blissey takes them better than Skarmory.

    Of course, this is just my theory. And it first assumes Gamefreak bothered to think this far into it.
  3. Fabulous Ampharos

    Fabulous Ampharos Pokemon Breeder :3

    Tail Whip...
  4. Cutty

    Cutty Forever now

    The difference is, one is special the other is not so special.
  5. Cherche

    Cherche Banned

    I approve of this theory.
  6. Toyosatomimi no Miko

    Toyosatomimi no Miko 炎髪灼眼の討ち手

    Yes. Exactly.

    Shouldn't it hurt?

    Whirlpool - shouldn't the Pokemon be thrown out of the battle or something? I mean...I whirlpool that you're sucked into.
    Roar - how does this get you out of a battle? I understand the Roar -> scared away thing, but really? The thing works on a Ho-oh that can caw back with twice the power?
  7. Sante

    Sante Well-Known Member

    Sound I get you. However, you don't get me :/ I understand why e.g Hydro Pump is a special move. It doesn't require the use of the user's physical strength. You need strength to throw a rock, punch, kick, cause an earthquake, ram into the opponent etc and the stronger you are the stronger the attack is. But, the odd thing is that Hydro Pump may be special but it inflicts physical damage. The sturdier your body, the harder for the Hydro Pump to knock you off. If you blast a wall and then blast a pillow with a water cannon you'll see that the wall doesn't get harmed in any way while the pillow may even tear in 2. It still does physical damage. It should be something like Psycho Shock or Sacred Sword. Hyper Voice too is concussive so it should be physical. When something is concussive it hurts your body. It shocks your skeleton and your organs may rupture. Thus it is physical. I just don't get why they are special. Anyway gtg for now.
  8. Wishing Star

    Wishing Star Astral Charm Owner

    I don't really know if "physical damage" can be defined that way. Flamethrower would burn the foe's body, tearing its tissues. Thunderbolt would shock the foe, disrupting its nerves. Psychic alters movement of the foe's body, disrupting the brain and nerves.

    Otherwise, it's to prevent making Sp. Def pretty much useless, and to make younger players instantly know whether something is Defense or Sp. Def based by looking at its damage category. Only a few moves, like Psyshock and Secret Sword that you mention, invert this, but it says that on the move. If Hydro Pump and Thunderbolt were based on Defense, then all moves like that would have to have that in its description to prevent confusion.
  9. Schade

    Schade No gain, just pain.

    Dark Void should be a One-Hit-KO.
    It says that the oponent is sent to a world of darkness!
  10. blaze boy

    blaze boy Aka SamuraiDon

    You should re read that part and look up on what Whirlpool.

    Just because Ho-Ho is bigger doesn't mean that it can't scared of something small.

    Dark Void is already broken as it is and you want it make it even broken, I am not sure what you think "world of darkness" means but that isn't a reason why it should be One-Hit KO.
  11. Sante

    Sante Well-Known Member

    Wishing Star, every attack would destroy the body. Both physical and special. Ice Beam would freeze the tissues, blood and cause wounds because it would certainly penetrate your skin. Hydro Pump would break bones and rupture organs. Psychic would disfigure your body or crash you or toss you away etc
    The reason I think Hydro Pump(and pretty much all Water blasting attacks) or Hyper Voice should be physical isn't because they hurt the body but because they can actually be cushioned by armor. Like, a Pokemon with very strong bones would survive Hydro Pump because it wouldn't even break a bone. A Pokemon with soft skin and thin bones would get destroyed because the skin would tear and the bones would shatter. This wouldn't count the same for Fire Blast or Ice Beam or Thunder though. No matter how thick and sturdy your bones or armor are you will still get the same damage from those. That's why they are special moves. Because they can't be cushioned by things that would normally cushion physical attacks.

    Example :

    Miltank has very good Def. We can suppose its bones are very sturdy and its hide very thick. So, a Hydro Pump should do much less damage to Miltank than it would do to Chansey. Miltank has good Def(bones,hide) to protect herself from the impact of the attack while Chansey has low Def(weak bones and thin skin) so it can't decrease the impact. Now, Miltank due to the thick bones,hide and muscles, can take a Mega Punch because the shock will be mostly absorbed by the muscles. Chansey will get seriously hurt by it because she lacks strong bones or thick hide or even strong enough muscles to absorb the shock so all of the impact damages her internal structure directly.
    On the other hand, Miltank has low skin resistance so she gets burned to a crisp after 2 Fire Blasts or Thunders. Chansey however has amazing skin resistance(or whatever special defense is) thus she can take multiple of them till she falls. No matter how sturdy or thick Miltank's armor is Thunder will still fry her. Chansey may have the lowest Def thus the weakest bones or whatever but she still takes those special attacks like a boss.

    Hydro Pump is special and Mega Punch is physical. Yet, they both are affected by the same kind of 'armor'. See what I am saying now?
    Hydro Pump should be Physical because it obviously deals physical damage and is affected by physical armor that would protect other Physical attacks as well but not special.

    Not all special attacks should be physical though. Only Water attacks, Hyper Voice and Psychic. The rest is reasonably labeled as Special.

    Adalricus, the Pokemon may be sent in the world of darkness but it still doesn't faint.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  12. Cherche

    Cherche Banned

    This sorta makes sense, because when you're dropped into a void, it's impossible to escape.
  13. Bariokie

    Bariokie rock dog

    Dark void is totally OHKO because you are fcking sent to a other world...
    I think that if a trainers pokemon is sent to a devilish nightmare world that it is kinda knocked out you know
  14. Schade

    Schade No gain, just pain.

    It should at least do damange.
    I can see how it makes you fall asleep, kinda. But still


    Its just a simple attack on a game
  16. trident20

    trident20 ground types

    hmmm idk maybe shadow punch dont make no sense if ya think about it
  17. dd1zzle

    dd1zzle Well-Known Member

    Never understood Spark at all.
  18. Sante

    Sante Well-Known Member

    Spark? It's just an electrified tackle. Nothing hard to understand. Draco Meteor on the other hand being special while meteors could crush you physically is a mystery though.
  19. 36squid

    36squid ISingTheBodyElectric

    Isn't signal beam just a flashing light? And the idea of shooting someone with excited gases being ice is Ludacris
  20. Sante

    Sante Well-Known Member

    36squid, yeah signal beam is quite confusing. I never got this along with Psybeam and Extrasensory.

    And yeah, Aurora Beam being a beam of 'excited icy gases' is kinda weird.

    Well, a lot of things are unexplainable in Pokemon ;p

    About the Ludacris thing, did you want to actually type 'ludicrous' or is there any pun that I just don't get?;p

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