Pokemon Diamond & Pearl Adventure! Discussion Thread

[AgentPierce]

So they wouldn't betray him at the crucial moment, of course. Especially after losing Saturn's loyalty.

But Saturn stopped being loyal to him only after the Spear Pillar event, so that makes no sense. Saturn tells you when you come to him later "I heard about you and what happened at the Spear Pillar." He only learned of Cyrus' desire for a spirit-less world due to hearing about him making a speech about it at the Spear Pillar. Mars and Jupiter most likely just found out about it then as well, when he was making the speech; we just didn't see how they reacted. All we know is, whether or not they find the idea of a spirit-less world agreeable, they're still loyal to Cyrus on a personal level, as they're devoted to finding him after he disappears.

And really, it makes little sense for Cyrus to tell them about the truth of his desires. That would require trust, and Cyrus likely looks down upon trust as weakness. I think it's obvious that in all iterations (games, anime, mangas), Cyrus was the only one aware of what would really happen. Everyone else thought that the world would be changed, or knew that the world would be destroyed to pave way for a new one, but only Cyrus knew just how that new world would be: a world with no emotion, willpower, or knowledge.

Oh golly yes that would have been fantastic. Not only discarded but used as a test subject!

You know what would have been interesting, building off the "nobody likes Charon yet somehow he has tons of minions" angle--if they'd been under mind control as well. It would have been fascinating.

Better yet, Rotom could have been used to power whatever device Charon used to mind-control his minions! Damn it, Ihara really should have had the Platinum arc be 5 volumes (like the DP arc) so that he could expand on the plot alot more.

 

[lolipiece]

Mind control sounds a little too much like what Adventures did (or heavily implied that they did)...

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

But Saturn stopped being loyal to him only after the Spear Pillar event, so that makes no sense.

I donno, I got the impression that it was at some point before letting the lake spirits out. The way Saturn is acting there is as if he's truly questioning what he believed in and why.

Also I got the feeling that Mars and Jupiter knew if only because they were OK with the whole "universal destruction" part of things, so the new world being free of something that had caused so much strife would be simple. Of course, this doesn't exist at all in DPA since he didn't tell them about the new world at *all* (and you can see what happened there, although I'm rather surprised that none of them tried to stop him during the whole thing) and sort of let them believe that "new world" was a metaphor (which, by the way, amused me to no end when Team Plasma did that in the games since you'd think people would be a lot more actively suspicious of that phrase by that point).

Oooh, Rotom as power source makes sense.

 

[AgentPierce]

I donno, I got the impression that it was at some point before letting the lake spirits out. The way Saturn is acting there is as if he's truly questioning what he believed in and why.

Then Cyrus left him at HQ because he didn't want to take any risks with him, I guess.

Also I got the feeling that Mars and Jupiter knew if only because they were OK with the whole "universal destruction" part of things, so the new world being free of something that had caused so much strife would be simple.

Jupiter perhaps knew and didn't care, but Mars (unlike Saturn) probably didn't even think to question it because she believes that Cyrus knows what he's doing and his cause has to be absolutely right. But she's a pretty emotional person, so if she found out about Cyrus' true intents, who knows how she'd react? She'd have to have some sort of reaction; she's not heartless.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Mars is also the most violent of the commanders (well, aside from Charon, whose violent intent far exceeds his capacity to actually follow through with his threats). It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that perhaps she fears that, or at least she would after Cyrus convinced her she should.

Aaah we've wandered so far off topic though! Perhaps we should make a general TG thread in the gen 4 forum!

Anyway I wonder what the poster with the DPA box set will be! My money is on the cover of volume 8.

 

[AgentPierce]

Mars is also the most violent of the commanders.

I dunno, Jupiter seems to quite literatelly be competing with her in that field.

Mars is definately the most quick-tempered though (no wonder she's got red hair, XD).

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

With Jupiter it seems to be due to business rather than an actual urge to act in violence. Like she'd do what it takes.

I notice that Jupiter in DPA has an interesting limit. In volume 5 when they're blowing up the base, her reaction to Mitsumi's request to be left behind is almost like "I wanted to kill you but not like this". She resists doing it despite wanting to harm Mitsumi for a very long time, and I wonder why that is. Does she want a fair fight?

Also...I wonder if this is because of how close Mitsumi and Cyrus were but...Mitsumi knows what Cyrus's goal entails. She tells Hareta that Cyrus is out to destroy the world, while the others think it's a metaphor. Makes me wonder about how she'd know, and why she'd sit on that knowledge for so long (did she not think he'd ever come close? I mean, realistically speaking, if someone said to you or me that they were going to destroy the world, I wouldn't be too worried since as far as I know it's impossible to do so).

 

[AgentPierce]

With Jupiter it seems to be due to business rather than an actual urge to act in violence. Like she'd do what it takes.

Yeah, Mars is more passionate in her attacks than Jupiter, who seems colder about it. With Mars, it's a matter of emotion, while with Jupiter, it's "nothing personal, just good business". That personally makes Jupiter's showings of violence really unsettling to me; at least with Mars you know where you stand when facing her, she'll do whatever she feels like doing rather than doing anything for business.

She resists doing it despite wanting to harm Mitsumi for a very long time, and I wonder why that is. Does she want a fair fight?

I think it's because Mitsumi is asking her to kill her. Jupiter probably thinks that Mitsumi is cheating her; killing someone you hate doesn't have any satisfaction to it if that's what they want you to do.

Why she'd sit on that knowledge for so long (did she not think he'd ever come close? I mean, realistically speaking, if someone said to you or me that they were going to destroy the world, I wouldn't be too worried since as far as I know it's impossible to do so).

It depends on if Cyrus ever told her exactly how he'd pull off his plan. If he did, then Mitsumi ought to have known that destroying the world was a possibility. Maybe she didn't tell anyone because Cyrus scared her into secrecy, and she was emotionally unable to overcome that even after she defected from Team Galactic.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Ignoring the post that clearly STILL has no idea what series we're discussing...

So the DPA box set came out! I haven't gotten to the bookstore recently but has anyone gotten it? The poster looks to be the volume 1 cover, is that right? Although that's kind of unfortunate since the volume 8 cover would be far better suited to poster form.

 

[~Nidoking~]

Yeah, saw if for about 60 pounds at forbidden planet, but didn't buy it as I own them.

 

[willsgb]

so yeah, i got that boxset, for 45 squids at forbidden planet, having never read any pokemon manga before... have to say i really enjoyed it, and much prefer it to the anime, not to say that the anime is particularly bad or anything, but i enjoy how this manga is so much closer to the games, and the stories seemed at least slightly darker then the anime... i was hoping to find the first series and read the mangas from the start, but there was only this boxset, some diamond pearl AND platinum, which was confusing, and BW. whatever, i got this series, and i wasn't disappointed.

it is pretty manic and zany in general, much like everything else pokemon, but i enjoyed the stories of characters like cyrus, mitsumi and koya, and how their motivations were rooted in troubled pasts, although i don't remember cyrus' past being expanded on.

hareta's energy could be a little overwhelming at times, but i really warmed to him; i think the moment i started to really like him was when he was fighting gardenia, and she accused him of being stupid rather then courageous, and he just replies with this huge ebulient grin 'I'M FINE WITH BEING STUPID!!!' and that just amused the hell out of me ^_^ he, very strongly, reminds me of a few other characters i've read or watched though - ed from cowboy bebop and the one and only golden boy kintaro oe come to mind!

there were a few moments which were jarring though - like in the final volume, when they're fighting giratina, and it takes them back to the normal world outside turnback cave, and they're like 'all our pokemon are gone' and hareta - and everyone else - don't bat an eyelid after that; what happened to their pokemon? they were obviously alright since they show up later, but wtf?

and as for the pokemon themselves, the main attraction in all this? i gained an increased appreciation for a lot of them, ones i already loved and ones i didn't have much opinion about before alike; it was fantastic to see the likes of munchlax, luxray, misdreavous, absol, metagross, infernape, milotic, weavile, lucario, magnezone, steelix, gallade, gyarados, the eeveelutions etc. doing their thing on the page, and enjoyed the characterisation of munchlax, empoleon, growlithe etc. too, and then of course there's the many legendaries too, who were superb i thought - although another 'what' moment was when regigigas obliterated its 3 golems after being awakened by candice and hareta, and they didn't give a ****. but i definitely enjoyed the battles and characterisations of shaymin, deoxys - nice surprise - uxie azelf and mesprit - it was cool to see how their power affected people too - regigigas - was interesting to see hareta 'get' it, which gained its respect and allowed him to get it, heatran, dialga palkia and giratina;

i'll say something else, it felt like we were robbed of a few battles too; the gym leaders fighting team galactic minions at lake valor when trying to stop azelf from being pinched, and of course the final 'battle royal'. i was also disappointed not to see hareta tumbling around in the old chateau! that would have been hilarious, i think misdreavous might have been tempted to stay there with its friends, to be fair.

one last word about charon - dr robotnik much? he was rubbish. maybe cyrus decided to disband team galactic because he was so disappointed at what a failure charon was, lol.

the poster was a disappointment though, that 2 page 'battle royal' spread at the end featuring everyone would have been a sweet poster. ah well, love it anyway, definitely getting more of the manga.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I think the "our pokemon are gone" line was probably a mistranslation. It's probably supposed to be closer to "our pokemon are all unconcious"...although it *does* beg the question of where the Galactic grunts that were inside the Distortion World went, since they didn't seem to be pulled back with the others.

DPA doesn't delve into Cyrus's past, even with what we get in the games (I would have paid cash money to see a part where Hareta met Cyrus's grandpa. It would have been perfect for DPA. As I've said, incredibly depressing backstory about parental pressure driving him insane, followed by embarassing baby pictures! It'd be right up DPA's alley!), but it does hint at several things. Nothing specific, and no cause, but lines like "emotions only cause pain!" really say a lot. And compassion--something you can never show him in the games because you have to follow a preprogrammed path--being the one thing to ultimately defeat him says a lot too. Remember, in the games, he never recants. He vows to just start over in both DP and Pt, and never seems to see your kicking his zombie butt as anything more than a temporary setback. Heck, in Pt he seemed far angrier and despairing that he couldn't escape his own emotions than anything your character had done to him. And a character like that, so overcome with hatred and anger, is frustrating from a player standpoint, especially when you're later meant to feel sorry for him. So I think that's what Ihara was working from by having Hareta be able to get through to him. It's something players want to be able to do.
Other lines that stand out are things like the repetiton of "we're alone in the world", which Cyrus had taught Mitsumi, seemingly because he believed it himself as well (we see this in his disbelief about friendship or alliances), and well, that entire multi-book plot of trying to get Hareta to hate him, because Hareta represents the purity that Cyrus didn't think existed in the world, and thus Cyrus can't permit that to exist so he has to either spoil it or prove that it's an illusion. And he can't do either one.

Although he was wrong about Hareta in one regard. Hareta does feel anger and hatred. Hareta hates Charon. Cyrus, for all his destructiveness and madness, believed he could save the world from itself. Charon was in it for his own glory and nothing else.

DPA Charon is a funny animal. He seems to alternate between complete fool and absolutely terrifying. And in a way, I think that's because he's, despite his scientific advances, the most "normal" out of the entire organization. He's a different kind of evil--the normal person given nearly unlimited power over others. Despite his bombings and brainwashings, he comes across as the sort of person we read about in newspapers. The banker taking their company for a wash and running off with billions. The corrupt politician, saying whatever will get them money until they finally have power to abuse. All of that stuff. That's Charon.

And as for the similarity there? He and Eggman have the same voice in the English version of the TV show! Oh yeah, they know what they're doing.

Yeah, I think the ending seems almost...cut off. Like there was SUPPOSED to be a final battle but then HGSS happened so they got all the Sinnoh stuff out of magazines. I wonder if it really was planned for more.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "find the first series". This is it, volumes 1-8, and it seems like you read all 8 of them.

 

[markahlpatton13]

Please tell me where i can read the rest of diamond and pearl

 

[ReiZerou]

Please tell me where i can read the rest of diamond and pearl

Buy it from your local bookstore or Amazon. Or get it from the library.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Good god man, it's a complete series. It's all still in print. Don't come begging to us.

 

[matt0044]

Personally, Ihara should've been able to write the story out fully to truly exploit the Sinnoh region for stories and whatnot. Not for promotion of any games but for just telling a good story since whether they correspond to the currently released games, Pokemon fans will read it still because, you know, it's Pokemon!

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I would hope so. He tells a really good story.

I wonder what he thinks about Special ripping off his ending.

 

[matt0044]

I wonder what he thinks about Special ripping off his ending.

Eh? Could you elaborate?

 

[TeamGalacticMars]

I thought this serises was enjoyable! Now I think I am more intresstied in pokemon DPP! But I liked Team Galactic!

 

[matt0044]

I wonder if Ihara did a sequel with BW how N and Hareta would get along. Wouldn't that be an interesting story. What I wouldn't give to at least see a good fanfic about it...