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Pokemon DP to end on this fall; new series on its way.

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Nacreous

Fire trainer
Hmmm...DP was kinda like a new Kanto.It was aimed for younger fans who most likely weren't born when the Kanto episodes came up & I think thats why they made Dawn's story so similar to Ash's & Piplup so similar to Pikachu.It even has attacks similar to Pikachu's attacks.So I think Dawn is a new Ash & they will both go to the next region.Even if Dawn doesn't have such a huge fanbase Piplup sure does....kinds in Japan love Piplup so it would be kinda stupid for it to be replaced
 

Spacialrend

Gallade owns
I agree that those who were brought up by the first season were, the majority of us, members of Generation Y, so go down the road 10 or so years, little kids younger than us by a decade clearly don't have a clue what Ash has been through. Maybe they wantd to restart?
 
Talk for yourself.

That statement is completely flawed. You may look at the regions and remember only Ash's journey, but many people remember his journey and the journey of the other main characters. Considering only Ash's approach in that region is ridiculous, he's not the only important character on the anime and not the only one that contributes importance to the anime.

/rant

That is completely biased towards your own opinion. I can freely claim that after two or three generations you won't even recall Dawn or May as a prominent character and also forget the screen time hog Piplup. That same thing happened to Misty too and I recently came across certain Dawn's fans who bash Misty cause she wasn't associated with contests.
 

KingMinun

Dawn/Sinnoh Fan!
Hmmm...DP was kinda like a new Kanto.It was aimed for younger fans who most likely weren't born when the Kanto episodes came up & I think thats why they made Dawn's story so similar to Ash's & Piplup so similar to Pikachu.It even has attacks similar to Pikachu's attacks.So I think Dawn is a new Ash & they will both go to the next region.Even if Dawn doesn't have such a huge fanbase Piplup sure does....kinds in Japan love Piplup so it would be kinda stupid for it to be replaced

A great point!
Another strong reason why I feel Dawn will stay. Dawn and Piplup are actually loved by the kids of Japan right now, so they do have a huge fanbase, and let's remember, the writers do what they can to please the japanese children, so why get rid of characters who are adored out there?

Also it is another good reason to why Dawn and Ash are similar. My cousin started watching pokemon in Mid AG saga, that's when I introduced her to it. (She was able to play games then so I introduced her to the games) so she didn't have a clue how Ash started his journey, she didn't know much about Misty, until she appeared. Then by the time DP arrived she adored Dawn and her "cutey pie" Piplup. So then I made her watch the old episodes and she noticed a similarity in the 2 characters.
My points are, Dawn and Piplup are popular in Japan, and the kids of today don't know much about Ash's journey without watching the old episodes, so like others have said, the writers recreated it with Dawn.
 

Dax

Legend
That is completely biased towards your own opinion. I can freely claim that after two or three generations you won't even recall Dawn or May as a prominent character and also forget the screen time hog Piplup. That same thing happened to Misty too and I recently came across certain Dawn's fans who bash Misty cause she wasn't associated with contests.

Well, I'm saying that every character will be remembered as prominent parts of the anime. What I'm doing is giving everyone the credit they deserve because they all contributed in a relevant part of the anime. What you are doing is acknowledging Ash as the only important character of the anime which shows how biased you are towards him.

Don't accuse me of being biased when you are the one giving Ash all the credit and not recognizing there is a significant contribution characters other than Ash gave the show.

If you read this forum more often and actually analyze you will realize what Misty, May and Brock did is still remembered. That gives your argument no credibility.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
My points are, Dawn and Piplup are popular in Japan, and the kids of today don't know much about Ash's journey without watching the old episodes, so like others have said, the writers recreated it with Dawn.

But at the same point, some kids will also be introduced to Pokemon next saga, and not know how Dawn started her journey.

The reason the show resets every 4-5 years is because new kids get into Pokemon who weren't even born when the previous saga were airing.

This is the big reason AG, "wiped the slate clean" after Johto, because that was after 5 years into the series and new kids were coming into Pokemon. Same with DP.

Next saga, new kids will start watching once again, and they'll have missed the beginning/middle of DP and not know how Dawn started.
 

BM14murph

Master Collector
Yes they are hardly ever referenced because it is a new audience and they won't remember them but does not mean they are forgotten just been given much less screentime sure look at Gary appeared in episode 1 was gone for a whole Generation and then brought back

The fact that they're bringing back Ash's reserves as well in the league is proof enough that they won't fully forget them they just let the new genration go it's own way as it should but still keeping in mind of how the show originally was
 

ijea4444

Well-Known Member
Ash's old pokemon and friends aren't going to be forgotten because to some extent the writers care about their old viewers and don't want them to leave.However majority of the show is going to be revolved around the new characters and their pokemon, so don't expect too much.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Ash's old pokemon and friends aren't going to be forgotten because to some extent the writers care about their old viewers and don't want them to leave.However majority of the show is going to be revolved around the new characters and their pokemon, so don't expect too much.

This! People who are saying that old characters are being forgotten in Japan, and that's why the Japanese writers made Dawn so similar to Ash for the Japanese audience are forgetting the fact that the oldest of episodes are still being shown on Pokemon Sunday. Heck, two weeks ago they showed how Ash got Charmander..

So I don't get why people are saying that they are retelling Ash's story through Dawn. Sure there are parallels, but Dawn's story is totally different: Did Ash ever go through depressing losses in Kanto? Did Dawn ever receive pity ribbons? Most notably: did Ash win against his major rival in the indigo league???

Comparing Pikachu's and Piplup's moves also falls short of complete comprehension to me..

Pikachu: Electric type attacks (basically all of them in gen1) and quick attack. Basically his elemental type attacks, and moves concerning speed.
Piplup: Whirlpool, Bubblebeam, Hydropump. I agree that there is a slight comparison to Thundershock/bolt and Thunder (as in 3 attacks of the same type), but Piplup also has Bide and Peck, which is a defensive and a move of another type.

What I'm trying to say is, they probably aren't trying to retell Ash's story through Dawn, since Japan (the writers top concern) has Pokemon Sunday to show his early journey. What I think is that Dawn's journey has minor similarities (Mamoswine) just because of the old saying: 'if it ain't broken, don't fix it'. Same with Piplup unwilling to evolve. The writers probably thought: How can we give this penguin more screentime, without letting it seem like hogging? Lets give it a reason that's worked in the past.. oh yeah, lets make it stop evolving, which would make the viewers sympathetic for it and love it more!
 

Rentorra

Active Member
No one seems to have noticed that on the official Japanese site that it says that Brock will realize a new dream...

:O
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
No one seems to have noticed that on the official Japanese site that it says that Brock will realize a new dream...

:O

I think that's why some people think Brock's leaving. No way will they do 3 plots in one saga. It will always be Ash and the main girl, Brock won't get a subplot.

Its possible he becomes Holly's tag battle partner and goes traveling with her. It would be fitting closure.
 

Spacialrend

Gallade owns
why can't it just be Ash and a girl, without the third boring, plotless character who, their (writers) excuse for keeping him is to give out advice/encouragement, etc, etc...

I admit Brock was useful at the beginning, but times have changed! You can't tell me that with 4 regions of experience, that Ash has not learned any single form of survival skills... So are they saying that a 10 year-old in general has the attention span of a donkey?...

I mean, with the Mammoswine episode Dawn has proven than even SHE can pay more attention to the little things... If you ask me, I say Ash is like Goku, pure at heart (aura), but a bit of a mule...
 

thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
If Brock does leave I wonder if he'll also get a cameo in the 5th Generation. Or just Dawn.

At least if he went off to become a tag battler with Holly and then returned for a tag battle tournament in the 5th generation they'd have an excuse to bring back his reserves. He'd be in a battle-centric profession after all.
 

ludowiq

EliBlasFrozDyro
This! People who are saying that old characters are being forgotten in Japan, and that's why the Japanese writers made Dawn so similar to Ash for the Japanese audience are forgetting the fact that the oldest of episodes are still being shown on Pokemon Sunday. Heck, two weeks ago they showed how Ash got Charmander..

So I don't get why people are saying that they are retelling Ash's story through Dawn. Sure there are parallels, but Dawn's story is totally different: Did Ash ever go through depressing losses in Kanto? Did Dawn ever receive pity ribbons? Most notably: did Ash win against his major rival in the indigo league???

Comparing Pikachu's and Piplup's moves also falls short of complete comprehension to me..

Pikachu: Electric type attacks (basically all of them in gen1) and quick attack. Basically his elemental type attacks, and moves concerning speed.
Piplup: Whirlpool, Bubblebeam, Hydropump. I agree that there is a slight comparison to Thundershock/bolt and Thunder (as in 3 attacks of the same type), but Piplup also has Bide and Peck, which is a defensive and a move of another type.

What I'm trying to say is, they probably aren't trying to retell Ash's story through Dawn, since Japan (the writers top concern) has Pokemon Sunday to show his early journey. What I think is that Dawn's journey has minor similarities (Mamoswine) just because of the old saying: 'if it ain't broken, don't fix it'. Same with Piplup unwilling to evolve. The writers probably thought: How can we give this penguin more screentime, without letting it seem like hogging? Lets give it a reason that's worked in the past.. oh yeah, lets make it stop evolving, which would make the viewers sympathetic for it and love it more!

You forgot Iron Tail... ;)
 

Spacialrend

Gallade owns
I wish for them to finally put an end to Brock's flirt gag. Don't get me wrong, it's hilarious when Croagunk does it, but I just feel that one more variant of it will kill it well and truly. it would only seem fitting to pair him and Holly up together...

AND COMMENCE THE TAGSHIPPING!
 

Antiyonder

Overlord
That is completely biased towards your own opinion. I can freely claim that after two or three generations you won't even recall Dawn or May as a prominent character and also forget the screen time hog Piplup. That same thing happened to Misty too and I recently came across certain Dawn's fans who bash Misty cause she wasn't associated with contests.

Have to disagree with that. I'd say the problem with Misty as a character is that as the show went on, she really did earn the status of eye candy. Aside from the Whirl Cup story, she was still on the show to simply be the main female cast member.

May and Dawn actually do more with their screentime. Not to mention that May received some substancial development in starting out as someone who just wanted to travel, and ended up with her own dream to pursue.

Now turning Misty into a coordinator wouldn't be necessary. Simply showcase her training her Pokemon more often. She could have benefit from more rivals and a rematch with Marina from The Orange Islands.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
I'd say the problem with Misty as a character is that as the show went on, she really did earn the status of eye candy. Aside from the Whirl Cup story, she was still on the show to simply be the main female cast member.

Well she had storyline which wasnt focused enough on.She left the gym in oder to become water pokemon master(as Waterflowers of Cerulean City" episode showed),had that complex of inferiority because of sisters,several times stating how she wants te become greatest water trainer ever,showing big interest in E4 members like Lorelai claiming for her being like her idol,competing in various events like Princess Festival,Whirl Cup,Seaking catching contest etc.

Aside from that she also provided moral support to others,saving pople lives and whole towns from destruction,being like coach to Ash pointing out his mistakes being as catalizator helping him grow as trainer,brought comedy,giving encouragemnt to others to follow their dreams by following her own.

Problem for not getting more was due to writers not having enough experience not knowing how to handle some things right,which they improved as time went on.

Now turning Misty into a coordinator wouldn't be necessary. Simply showcase her training her Pokemon more often. She could have benefit from more rivals and a rematch with Marina from The Orange Islands.

What should happen in my opinion,is having Misty return to cast for at least a season or two to expand more on her character and backstory,her goal of becoming water master(for which in order to reach higher level becoming one of top trainers in world at least on E4 level she should travell again,since you cant become elite trainer by staying at gym being needed to learn more and improive skills through journey).Like Wallace and many other elite trainers did.

And even though she most likely wont return to cast,in my opinion this would be good idea.
 
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Adamo

Well-Known Member
I don't think there would be any outcry, honestly, like, I'm sure the loudest people for Misty were shippers, with their delusions of an Ash/Misty relationship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erdd1ZHIryU

^

In this small clip misty , brock , and ash show more character chemistry than any other trio. Now i have always liked the girl characters better than boys so ...yeah it annoys me to see brock stay and the girl leave.

But the fact is Misty was a great character and The shipping thing is just annoying. However people who wan'r her back won't likly get their wish since her pokemon team is too strong and why would she re-set it?.

Brock personality is stagnant compared to how it was in the earielr seasons as can be seen above. Brock is a breeder and therefore should evolve more pokemon than any other. He should stay at a day-care centre and the new boy should do the pokeathlon and the new girl be a new all type trainer ( cm'on i miss the whole best * insert* type trainer thing.
 
This! People who are saying that old characters are being forgotten in Japan, and that's why the Japanese writers made Dawn so similar to Ash for the Japanese audience are forgetting the fact that the oldest of episodes are still being shown on Pokemon Sunday. Heck, two weeks ago they showed how Ash got Charmander..

So I don't get why people are saying that they are retelling Ash's story through Dawn. Sure there are parallels, but Dawn's story is totally different: Did Ash ever go through depressing losses in Kanto?
Ash can't go through depressed phase for more than a episode because of his shear determination.

Did Dawn ever receive pity ribbons?

Most notably: did Ash win against his major rival in the indigo league???
We don't have a confirmation of Dawn winning over Zoey till now.

Comparing Pikachu's and Piplup's moves also falls short of complete comprehension to me..

Pikachu: Electric type attacks (basically all of them in gen1) and quick attack. Basically his elemental type attacks, and moves concerning speed.
Piplup: Whirlpool, Bubblebeam, Hydropump. I agree that there is a slight comparison to Thundershock/bolt and Thunder (as in 3 attacks of the same type), but Piplup also has Bide and Peck, which is a defensive and a move of another type.

If you compare Pikachu moves from Original series to Piplup's move from now then you might see some close connection.
For STAB moves
ThunderShock=Bubblebeam, Thunderbolt=Whirlpool, Thunder=Hydropump
Other types moves,
Quick Attack, Double Edge or Agility = Peck or Bide, but if we go by AG then Iron Tail= Peck and Quick Attack=Bide.
Lousy match up but I think you got the point.


What I'm trying to say is, they probably aren't trying to retell Ash's story through Dawn, since Japan (the writers top concern) has Pokemon Sunday to show his early journey. What I think is that Dawn's journey has minor similarities (Mamoswine) just because of the old saying: 'if it ain't broken, don't fix it'. Same with Piplup unwilling to evolve. The writers probably thought: How can we give this penguin more screentime, without letting it seem like hogging? Lets give it a reason that's worked in the past.. oh yeah, lets make it stop evolving, which would make the viewers sympathetic for it and love it more!

They tried many similarities between Pikachu and Piplup throughout the DP saga. But Piplup not evolving was to mirror Bulbasaur and this time round it was dumb cause reason was imperfect.

But at the end of the day there were many more similarities between and May and Dawn and their Pokemon than Dawn and Ash.

Comments in Bold.

Seriously dude if they will make Dawn and Ash's character completely same then whats the point of introducing a new character. Thats why they took chunks from Ash and May and added a little spice by themselves and fooled some people into believing that they aren't running out of ideas.
 
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