Pokemon Fan Presents the Alola Pokémon League

[Remix2]

• Whatever the outcome is, I want the battles to be as entertaining as they were in XY(&Z).

I doubt any battle form the this league will be anywhere close to xyz battle given how lackluster big battles are in this series.

 

[satopi]

I feel like Lillie has a chance of going further than what some of you think. Lillie is competent at battling in terms of using her knowledge about Pokémon battling to her advantage. Shiron might not be the strongest but even the weakest of Pokémon didn’t immediately KO after going into a battle against an opponent that were out of their League. She’ll probably get Kibago’d in the sense of she’ll learn a new move right before she’s in the verge of fainting and somehow win.

Mallow’s Tsareena is pretty competent on her own, she’s known to have quick, tough legs. I doubt she’ll go down easily. Lana, her Primarina, and Nagisa too. We’ve barely seen the girls battle so I want to see what they have up their sleeve. (This doesn’t mean that I fully agree with the strong, competent, and female battlers entering the League statement.)

 

[DatsRight]

It's a shame really, I think Lillie was the most promising besides the two battlers, she shown strategic potential and could do clever moves, she could have been a more practical battler that maybe wasn't the most strong and experienced, but made up for it with actual smart use of abilities....

...But then Lillie didn't really develop her team anymore and didn't even get any proper battles, not even the battle royal she wanted to do.

I do think it would be the least contrived to suddenly make her a competent strategic battler in the league, even compared to Lana who has no experience besides bad guy spam curbstomps and is relying completely on "winner aura" momentum to be played off as a competent battler, but Lillie has by far the weakest odds in terms of power due to one barely trained Pokemon. I almost want her to be lent Clefable or one of Ash's team so she can show her full potential, even if I still don't think she should beat one of the experts like Ash.

I also think Lillie is one of the most liable to make her progressing look believable because Lillie recurrently is a panicky fallible trainer, all her battles shown a thought process for her, making clear she is thinking up crap on-the-fly, not just suddenly fluent and unstoppable. I feel like they'd likely make any case of her doing well be down to this rather than trying to play her off as already having done all that development and suddenly being a cool headed tactical ace in battles because "end of show = automatically competent trainer", which would look absurd for the non-battlers given how little they've actually trained.

 

[p96822]

It's a shame really, I think Lillie was the most promising besides the two battlers, she shown strategic potential and could do clever moves, she could have been a more practical battler that maybe wasn't the most strong and experienced, but made up for it with actual smart use of abilities....

...But then Lillie didn't really develop her team anymore and didn't even get any proper battles, not even the battle royal she wanted to do.

I do think it would be the least contrived to suddenly make her a competent strategic battler in the league, even compared to Lana who has no experience besides bad guy spam curbstomps and is relying completely on "winner aura" momentum to be played off as a competent battler, but Lillie has by far the weakest odds in terms of power due to one barely trained Pokemon. I almost want her to be lent Clefable or one of Ash's team so she can show her full potential, even if I still don't think she should beat one of the experts like Ash.

I also think Lillie is one of the most liable to make her progressing look believable because Lillie recurrently is a panicky fallible trainer, all her battles shown a thought process for her, making clear she is thinking up crap on-the-fly, not just suddenly fluent and unstoppable. I feel like they'd likely make any case of her doing well be down to this rather than trying to play her off as already having done all that development and suddenly being a cool headed tactical ace in battles because "end of show = automatically competent trainer", which would look absurd for the non-battlers given how little they've actually trained.

What do you mean Lillie is good battler when she barely battle. The only thing she does is freezing thing

 

[Doppelgänger]

She's the second smartest cast member after the ghost computer and has the two most dangerous Pokemon in the class. She also has her butler to practice with.

I didn't really think about it until now, but there's enough build up of her character that I'd be comfortable with seeing her perform well.

 

[DatsRight]

She's definitely not a pro, but they bothered to do SOME substance with her, like her actual working out strategies and how to use Pokemon's abilities intuitively. It wasn't just 'one or two curbstomps + plot armour boosts = instant pro battler'.

I still don't think she should get that far, but I don't think they COMPLETELY copped out with her like they did with the other girls, whose signatures are treated like powerhouses right now despite never actually doing any proper competitive battling.

 

[Leonhart]

I doubt any battle form the this league will be anywhere close to xyz battle given how lackluster big battles are in this series.

I expect lackluster matches as well, although I still want to believe that the final battle will be decent as long as Satoshi gets to use his full team. One of my fears is that we won't get full battles, which I hope I'm wrong about.

 

[DatsRight]

I suspect it might be half and half (on paper at least). The first half being sort of a comedic 'all star' tournament with all the less experienced lot, and the last half bringing it down to the proper battlers.

That's probably the most logical way of doing anyway. Unless we get maybe the one dark horse or so, I don't think they should suddenly make the other students or comedic extras able to reach the top tier matches.

 

[Kintaro]

It's quite possible given SM's track record with battles hasn't been very good. All the Kahuna battles except maybe one have been lackluster too. It might be better than the Unova league though, the Unova league had one great battle which was Ash Vs. Stephen while all the others were lackluster or poor, so who knows.

 

[mehmeh1]

There's no way the matches will be lackluster.

Only Hoenn could be said to have ho-hum battles, every other league has had one if not multiple series-best episodes. I get that SM has had mostly poor battles but all evidence points to this league being the culminating event of Alola, so a mediocre payoff would be unprecedented for both the SM series the Pokemon anime in general.

hoenn had ash vs katie and ash vs tyson
Unova, on the other hand, had a bad 1v1 with ash vs trip, an ok 2v2 with bianca vs cameron, a great 3v3 with ash vs stephan, and a disgrace of a 6v5 with ash vs cameron

 

[Blue Saturday]

S&M battles have been fine to me, the only reason I see them getting poor reception for being “poor” is due to the fact they aren’t as flashy as XY battles. Flashiness doesn’t make a good battle for me, a battle can have a bunch of well animated kicks and punches and “cool” shots but that doesn’t make it a good battle for me. A top tier battle for me is one that is given a well thought out amount of struggle, some decent strategy, realism and healthy momentum / narrative weight worth investing in it beyond given Satoshi a certain “tally” on his battle record. Suiren’s fishing battle, Nyaheat/Gaogaen fights, Gyarados, Lugarugan/Kuchinasu, Lillie’s Ice Double Battle, Pikachu/Mimikyu, Kaki/Garagara, were great matches narratively and aesthetically in my eyes.

I like how the animation has turned from constant explosions and windswept fireworks shows and brawl fest to a more simple style sans Z-Moves, it’s just so easy on the eyes in its own way and the battles not being as speedy allows us to take own time following the actual character motives. Those little breaks during the Lugarugan / Kuchinasu fights did a lot showing us the turmoil the dog and Satoshi felt and their overall trust and development throughout the arc. It wasn’t just Satoshi versus Kuchinasu, it was him and Lugarugan versus Kuchinasu. They figured out a way around Counter, got to showcase their new move in Stone Edge and countered Black Hole Eclipse with the Z-Move Gladion’s Midnight dog inspired him to want, World End Fall.

 

[Kintaro]

S&M battles have been fine to me, the only reason I see them getting poor reception for being “poor” is due to the fact they aren’t as flashy as XY battles. Flashiness doesn’t make a good battle for me, a battle can have a bunch of well animated kicks and punches and “cool” shots but that doesn’t make it a good battle for me. A top tier battle for me is one that is given a well thought out amount of struggle, some decent strategy, realism and healthy momentum / narrative weight worth investing in it beyond given Satoshi a certain “tally” on his battle record. Suiren’s fishing battle, Nyaheat/Gaogaen fights, Gyarados, Lugarugan/Kuchinasu, Lillie’s Ice Double Battle, Pikachu/Mimikyu, Kaki/Garagara, were great matches narratively and aesthetically in my eyes.Fall.

There's been plenty of strategy in all the big XY battles. I think this "meme" of XY battles just having good animation needs to end. Aside from maybe DP's best battles, XY battles had plenty of techniques and strategy used by Ash or his opponent. There's a reason Ash Vs. Clemont is one of the best Gym battles of the entire anime.

 

[Blue Saturday]

There's been plenty of strategy in all the big XY battles. I think this "meme" of XY battles just having good animation needs to end. Aside from maybe DP's best battles, XY battles had plenty of techniques and strategy used by Ash or his opponent. There's a reason Ash Vs. Clemont is one of the best Gym battles of the entire anime.

Ironically I thought Satoshi/Citron was one of the worst battles, pretty animation but overall did not live up to the hype. Little struggle on Satoshi’s end, Pikachu and Luchabull just blow through the bunny and lizard like nothing, then Rentorar Ko’s both with the dragon quickly ridding itself of paralysis and knocking out the look with Bide. In fact I distinctly remember the one aspect everyone loved about the battle being the animation with the actual showdown itself being moreso a let down thematically because Citron kind of felt like a pushover due to never being portrayed as all that strong compared to Satoshi. XY had some battles with good strategy but much of it is over exaggerated due to pretty art, animation and battle presentation. Satoshi-Gekkouga fights were just flashy Shounen slugfest ending in generic standoffs where one opponent overdramamticaly drops.

 

[Kintaro]

Ironically I thought Satoshi/Citron was one of the worst battles, pretty animation but overall did not live up to the hype. Little struggle on Satoshi’s end, Pikachu and Luchabull just blow through the bunny and lizard like nothing, then Rentorar Ko’s both with the dragon quickly ridding itself of paralysis and knocking out the look with Bide. In fact I distinctly remember the one aspect everyone loved about the battle being the animation with the actual showdown itself being moreso a let down thematically because Citron kind of felt like a pushover due to never being portrayed as all that strong compared to Satoshi. XY had some battles with good strategy but much of it is over exaggerated due to pretty art, animation and battle presentation. Satoshi-Gekkouga fights were just flashy Shounen slugfest ending in generic standoffs where one opponent overdramamticaly drops.

If you honestly think that was one of the worst battles (not talking about the animation, but the battles), then I dunno, I guess to each their own. The climax with Luxray and Goodra was much shorter than it should have been, but there was great battling all around and Pikachu winning against the bunny with throwbacks to their first battle back in XY2 or whatever it was, was well done. Clemont has also always been portrayed as fairly strong, the bunny was beating Pikachu in its first appearance, and Luxray was pretty powerful. Clemont's other pokemon was always at the Gym so we don't know how strong it was supposed to be. It was not only one of the best Gyms of XY, but of the majority of the anime.

In comparison every Kahuna battle, aside from maybe Nanu's, has been rather disappointing. I won't even get into Hapu for obvious reasons, but Olivia and the first one weren't too good either.

 

[Jeal]

Clemont's gym battle should have been a two-parter, really. Clemont should have been tougher to beat, too.

 

[Kintaro]

He pretty much was, Ash was done to his last pokemon. I'm glad Clemont didn't use Chespin in the Gym match either, he would have been pointless.

 

[Blue Saturday]

If you honestly think that was one of the worst battles (not talking about the animation, but the battles), then I dunno, I guess to each their own. The climax with Luxray and Goodra was much shorter than it should have been, but there was great battling all around and Pikachu winning against the bunny with throwbacks to their first battle back in XY2 or whatever it was, was well done. Clemont has also always been portrayed as fairly strong, the bunny was beating Pikachu in its first appearance, and Luxray was pretty powerful. Clemont's other pokemon was always at the Gym so we don't know how strong it was supposed to be. It was not only one of the best Gyms of XY, but of the majority of the anime.

The battle had no room to breath, the climax was rushed. Pikachu destroyed Horubee so fast it made you wonder why they waited so long to settle the match from the first episode. After the “throwback” scene ended Pikachu wrecked it with one Iron Tail by dragging it from under ground with Iron Tail. Even before that the bunny ate **** all the time against others like Keromatsu in the double battle or Team Rocket so they did a poor job building up it as a threat. Erezado was done in fast despite the “Flash” tactic in like two hits. Numelgon/Rentorar came down to a flashy finish and slugfest like a lot of “hype” type Shounen battles. This same Rentorar had no real development post capture and then was ignored letting us know the writers only had Citron get it to job to Satoshi.

On a surface level it looks cool but given an in-depth look it was all flash with little actual “substance” which was a big issue for me with XY. S&M battles need more length on average but other than that I’m fine with them because even when there is a battle it’s for a purpose to develop a character in some way. Totem Yowashi was about Suiren getting the Waterium and Ashimari growing, Garagara/Eleckible was about Kaki bonding with Garagara, Lugarugan/Kuchinasu was about Satoshi and Lugarugan coming full circle, Lillie/James was about Lillie understanding how Pokemon and trainer fight as a team and trust each other in battle, they weren’t flashy affairs but the battles told a story and served their purposes. Lillie’s fight with Pikachu wasn’t strategic because it was about Lillie becoming confident and finally touching another Pokemon (“You’re so WARM, Pikachu.” is what she said after touching him, compare this to Shiron who is Ice-type and cold and the only Pokemon she touched up until this point.)

 

[p96822]

I wasn't invested in the Clemont Gym Battle because we'd already seen a battle with that Pokemon in a prior, more climactic Gym Battle (with Volkner). The major thrill of that fight was Ash using a pseudo, in one of the few areas where that particular pseudo could shine.

As for SM battles, they tend to have the proper story beats that would make for good action, but allow for some deflating logic that makes the situation pointless. The Ash-Gladion, Pikachu-Mimikyu megamart battles were good until a dumb DEX was brought in to resolve the action at horribly cliche moments.

XY has similar setups because it would use game mechanics to build up action sequences, but was better able to disguise cop out resolutions. For example, I never see Alain vs Trevor get cited as XY's worst battle, but it really was. Instead of actually animating the episode, the anime spliced it with Ash and a random Furfou trainer, with neither battle shown at all.

What should have had amazing setup and resolution, Mega X versus Mega Y, instead was reduced in scope and forced to rely on DEX like Alain one shotting Trevor. Even SM's worst battle, that megamart one, didn't stoop so low.

I completely disagree with for you. I thought Volkner’s battle with Ash was really bland compared to Clemont’s battle with Ash because I don’t feel like Ash used his Pokémon to their fullest potential when facing off Volkner.

 

[Blood Red]

...wait, so this League will have at least 3 trainers who have Legendary Pokémon? And one of them is Ash?!

Man, can't wait to see him lose despite having tons of experience and a Legendary Pokémon!

 

[Kintaro]

The battle had no room to breath, the climax was rushed. Pikachu destroyed Horubee so fast it made you wonder why they waited so long to settle the match from the first episode. After the “throwback” scene ended Pikachu wrecked it with one Iron Tail by dragging it from under ground with Iron Tail. Even before that the bunny ate **** all the time against others like Keromatsu in the double battle or Team Rocket so they did a poor job building up it as a threat. Erezado was done in fast despite the “Flash” tactic in like two hits. Numelgon/Rentorar came down to a flashy finish and slugfest like a lot of “hype” type Shounen battles. This same Rentorar had no real development post capture and then was ignored letting us know the writers only had Citron get it to job to Satoshi.

I hate to break it to you, but 90% of the battles of the anime play out like this in every saga. I don't know where you were for all the other big battles of the show. It's even worse in other sagas because Ash's pokemon usually take a huge amount of battle damage, then hang in there, and Ash then has a come from behind win where he pulls out a last minute strategy where then his opponent loses in 1-2 attacks. In XY they didn't have Ash's pokemon take too much damage and had a more even ground of attacks before he won.

On a surface level it looks cool but given an in-depth look it was all flash with little actual “substance” which was a big issue for me with XY. S&M battles need more length on average but other than that I’m fine with them because even when there is a battle it’s for a purpose to develop a character in some way. Totem Yowashi was about Suiren getting the Waterium and Ashimari growing, Garagara/Eleckible was about Kaki bonding with Garagara, Lugarugan/Kuchinasu was about Satoshi and Lugarugan coming full circle, Lillie/James was about Lillie understanding how Pokemon and trainer fight as a team and trust each other in battle, they weren’t flashy affairs but the battles told a story and served their purposes. Lillie’s fight with Pikachu wasn’t strategic because it was about Lillie becoming confident and finally touching another Pokemon (“You’re so WARM, Pikachu.” is what she said after touching him, compare this to Shiron who is Ice-type and cold and the only Pokemon she touched up until this point.)

So if you're talking about development moment between characters after, this happens in other sagas too. Look at Serena Vs. Ellie in in that episode Braixen evolves, or Clemont and Ash's speech after their battle,etc.

I wasn't invested in the Clemont Gym Battle because we'd already seen a battle with that Pokemon in a prior, more climactic Gym Battle (with Volkner). The major thrill of that fight was Ash using a pseudo, in one of the few areas where that particular pseudo could shine.

The Gym had about 60 eps of build-up between Ash/Clemont, the Pikachu/bunny battle was a throwback to their intro, and the climax of Goodra Vs. Luxray was heavily foreshadowed. It's probably one of the best constructed Gym matches of the show, and also the best one he had against a companion. Which is obvious as Misty/Brock and Cilan's Gyms with Ash all happened early in their series and were just decent fights.

XY has similar setups because it would use game mechanics to build up action sequences, but was better able to disguise cop out resolutions. For example, I never see Alain vs Trevor get cited as XY's worst battle, but it really was. Instead of actually animating the episode, the anime spliced it with Ash and a random Furfou trainer, with neither battle shown at all.

What should have had amazing setup and resolution, Mega X versus Mega Y, instead was reduced in scope and forced to rely on DEX like Alain one shotting Trevor. Even SM's worst battle, that megamart one, didn't stoop so low.

Eh? Most people hated the Alan vs. Trevor match. The only reason people don't care is...it's Trevor. Nobody cared about his character. I do remember people wishing Charizard Y got a better showcasing.